Look at this

[TB&G]

Originally Posted By: Manor9

I think it's so stupid to say they don't care, every man cares about winning every football match, from international football to a game in training, the problem with the England team is the players are bigger than the coaches and England are possibly the only team in the world who don't play a particular system. Which is probably because the manager is scared to tell the players what to do.

Just the point I was going to make.

It was pointed out on Weds that the Croats always play to the same system irrespective of who plays so that all the players know what they are doing.

All the England managers seem to want to do is tinker instead of doing the same.

If they did that and chose the current in-form players at their best positions to suit the system (say 4-4-2 for example) instead of the favourites who may be out of form then you should get more consistent results.

[Jenko]

Sixy thank you...

 

I luv you too....

[Beachboys]

Sixy have i missed something do we need a new teaboy ?

[Kaiser Jnr]

Maybe you need a new coach?

[Silencer]

Originally Posted By: Jenko

JJ blaming the foreign players is ridiculous. It goes much deeper than that. What the foreign players do is make the young English players better because if they are good they won't make it. If they are quality they will. Playing moire English players won't make the National side better. It will just breed mediocrity!

If the foreigns are to blame why is it we failed to qualify for the 74 and 78 World Cups when there were hardly any foreigners in The English game? Since the foreign invasion in 95/96 we have reached 2 semi finals and two quater finals in major tournaments. The quality of football in the premiership is better and the English players are better quality! If you don't believe that I'll post the 1992-1994 England Squad and the one from the last 2 years!

The real problem is the FA, a s**t manager and the attitude of players who are overpaid and don't give a s**t!

Jenko....I appreciate your opinion and that of everyone else. I Cant really comment on pre-Italia 90 as Im too young!

My view is that I agree that foreigners have taken Domestic English football to a better level. Ecspecially in terms diets, professionalism and even the technical side.

My point is that there are too many foreigners. By this I mean average foreigners who do a job that young English kids could come in and do. Average foreigners who sit in Clubs reserve sides. Average players that are now more and more present in even at Championship level. You look at some clubs and they sign Chinese / Korean players just for media attention/Exposure out in asia!?! How is that helping the English National side.

Arsenal are a fantastic side to watch, but how is this benefiting the National Side. Theo Walcott apart, it is`nt. The English talent is then shipped off to other clubs at a later stage!

The English talent in the league is dwindling all of the time.

I also agree with that others that the Manager is a bottler, but we all knew he would be a yes man. Why not Sack the heirachy (Barwick etc)aswell and get football men in at the top!

On your point about making two Semi-Finals and Two Quarter Finals....who do you mean?? England? If so, is that really something to celebrate....reaching a Q-f here and there, you dont usually play the decent teams until the knockout stages of a tournament anyway! For me Following England...that is`nt good enough!

[Talk_Is_Cheap]

It is a tough one regarding the foreigners and what effect they have had but if you look at Glen Johnson, SWP, Wayne Bridge, Scott Parker, were all promising young players who moved to big clubs and then couldnt get a game due to the quality foreigners in the side.

 

All I am saying is do you think these players would have improved even further if they recieved regular first team football at a top side playing champios League football each year..?

[coach et 64]

Lads,i have seen this debate before when we had the argentinians(1986)germans(1990)brasilians(1994)and the french in 1998 playing in Italy and beating us in finals,semifinals and quarter-finals of the World Cup.I say if the foreigner player is a great player,makes the difference and whom the English youngsters can learn from..yes!There is the other side of coin too, with many average foreigner players coming overhere for the money and they are the ones that stop some English youngsters who could possibly become good,from coming through.This thing cannot be reversed but is down to the single clubs to act.Second,an English manager...well,English press love a gossip or two and unlikely in other countries they stick their noose into their private lives.Venables and Hoddle who were doing a decent job with many of the existing players in their youth and prime,have been sacked because of that.It is a tough job but i don't see many English potential candidates and you know why?Because opposite to Italy(where there are none!)there are too many foreigner coaches that like in the case of the players prevent a good young English one from taking over one of the top club's in the country!too many foreigners strikers and managers that's the problem!

[Silencer]

Originally Posted By: Talk_Is_Cheap

It is a tough one regarding the foreigners and what effect they have had but if you look at Glen Johnson, SWP, Wayne Bridge, Scott Parker, were all promising young players who moved to big clubs and then couldnt get a game due to the quality foreigners in the side.

All I am saying is do you think these players would have improved even further if they recieved regular first team football at a top side playing champios League football each year..?

Great point Rossco. Of course they would have improved dude, I agree. The problem is that Chairman and supporters at the top sides want instant success and dont have the opportunity to bring anyone through now!

For instant success, they buy a ready made Johnny Foreigner! Then in turn, the promising youngsters play with a lesser standard team and players and therefore do not progress to that extra level.

Arsenal alone....your looking at Richard Wright = career nose-dived. Franny Jeffers = career nose-dived, Bentley, Pennant, Sidwell, Harper, Upson all never had a chance! Surely some of these could have made it with time!!

[Silencer]

Originally Posted By: coach et 64

Lads,i have seen this debate before when we had the argentinians(1986)germans(1990)brasilians(1994)and the french in 1998 playing in Italy and beating us in finals,semifinals and quarter-finals of the World Cup.I say if the foreigner player is a great player,makes the difference and whom the English youngsters can learn from..yes!There is the other side of coin too, with many average foreigner players coming overhere for the money and they are the ones that stop some English youngsters who could possibly become good,from coming through.This thing cannot be reversed but is down to the single clubs to act.Second,an English manager...well,English press love a gossip or two and unlikely in other countries they stick their noose into their private lives.Venables and Hoddle who were doing a decent job with many of the existing players in their youth and prime,have been sacked because of that.It is a tough job but i don't see many English potential candidates and you know why?Because opposite to Italy(where there are none!)there are too many foreigner coaches that like in the case of the players prevent a good young English one from taking over one of the top club's in the country!too many foreigners strikers and managers that's the problem!

Spot on Coachy... English Managers of the highest quality are few and far between in the Premiership! If Wenger, Ferguson, Grant or Benitez left...what chance does an Englishman have of getting a job?!? Sod all.

Another problem with the English side is Goalkeeping and Strikers...it`s no coincidence that bar Rooney and Crouch, none of the other strikers and keepers play at any of our four consistent Champions league representatives!

[T.A.F.K.A.M 9]

Richard Wright, David Bentley, Jermaine Pennent, Steve Sidwell and Matthew Upson were all due a chance at Arsenal but were impatient and decided to leave. Also if the foreigners are good enough and the english players aren't thats done to this country.

Players from this country need to look at themselves Bentley, Pennent shi t attidudes, TThe young ones with money are the problem i watched motd a few weeks backs Leroy lita looked like the worst player ever he missed to open goals then got taken off two hours later i walk into a club in west london and he's there showing off with bottles of champagne, personally when i have a [****!!****] game i don't even want to talk to anybody else.

[Silencer]

You had a busy night, you did`nt go out clubbing until after you had watched Match of the day!

 

Also, if you was out that night....Im assuming that you had a good game yourself that day! :-)

 

 

On a serious note, your right about Players attitudes stinking! But thats money for ya! It must be hard to not be a flash mug if you have all that money, all that timeon your hands and all them birds throwing themselves at you! But that is players in general, not just English players!

 

This is`nt a personal assault on Arsenal (Although they are the biggest culprits as the youth team is even full of po*xy foreigners) I`ll ask you this then.....does Arsenal not having a single Englishmen in their side not bother you?? Does a youth/fringe/reserve side consisting mainly of foreign talent not bother you?

 

It does me!

[T.A.F.K.A.M 9]

Arsenal's first team does consist of foreigners can't deny, but but of the 21 players in our reserve squad only six are foreign, and after the whole ashley cole incident, i can honestly so i'm not bothered by english players playing for arsenal

[Silencer]

Fair play....at least your honest!

 

Personally I am country before club with football and thats even though I go to every Southend and West Ham Home and Away whenever Im not playing!

 

Mind you, Its probably easier to care for me as my club sides are sh1te!

 

To me thats the problem with the whole of professional football in this country! Its not geared towards helping the national side. And in all honesty why should clubs do that when football is such a Big business now!

 

Just as an England fan...it pisse*s me off with the state of the team and the fact that Im not going to the Euro`s now for three weeks next summer !

[coach et 64]

I suggest for June that everybody picks a team and support it throughout the tournament,taking the pizza on the others.I pick Italy... and by the way listen to this...

 

"England are to change their shirts.The three lions will be replaced with three tampons to represent the worst [****!!****] period they have ever had!"

[Greg_Dyke]

taxi for the coach !

 

[Jenko]

JJ I support Arsenal before England. And too be honest I don't care who plays for arsenal as long as they are good enough. The players you mentioned weren't good enough, didn't have the right attitude and were moved on.

[Silencer]

Players who was`nt good enough but moved on to other decent sized clubs! So they could`nt have been that bad!

 

Pennant = Liverpool (Champs Lge Final)

Bentley = Blackburn (England Caps)

Sidwell = Chelsea (Champions league football)

Upson = West Ham (England Caps)

 

[Jenko]

JJ I'm saying they weren't good enough for us cos we had players there already.

 

Of the players you mentioned:

 

Upson - Lack of pace and authority

Pennent - S**t attitude and not that good anyway

Bentley - S** attitude not as good as what we have

Sidwell - No where near good enough

[coupwotcoup]

Jenko = lack of height and tea-making skills

[Silencer]

To be fair, I was just trying to back up my arguement. I think there is too many foreigners and should be a cap.

 

In response to your comments on the above 4 players....through gritted teeth I actually have to agree.

 

I think Pennant and Sidwell have been verty fortunate to sign for Liverpool and Chelsea after bombed at Arsenal. Upson ok.

 

Bentley though, I think that Wenger could have really taken him on even further to what he is now!