Live Broadcast Of Matches For MFC Members

[darling]

Originally Posted By: AF_Fulham

I know the employment law you mention.

Then you'll know that the relevant issue is copyright law, and not employment law

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act

9 Authorship of work
(1) In this Part “author”, in relation to a work, means the person who creates it.
(2) That person shall be taken to be—
(a) in the case of a ... film, the person by whom the arrangements necessary for the making of the ... film are undertaken;

In other words, Cameraman.

Quote:

Then the club would have reasonable grounds to assume that the services rendered whilst in their 'employment' are the property of the club as they paid a fee for the services and indeed let you perform your services on their property.

Think wedding photographer/videographer. You hire them, pay a fee for their services, and let them perform their services on your property. They still get the copyright (unless you agree otherwise, and you'll certainly have to pay extra $$)

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

Firstly, can I ask as to when this is all supposed to be taking effect as regards my position ?

Seeing as the takeover isn't final yet, then you should assume nothing has changed.

The prices you negotiate are really none of my business - that's between you and the club.

Quote:

Having said that, a Manager's DVD of my footage has just been shown on national and worldwide TV bulletins today without my permission and without me getting paid for that to happen, but I will let them off on this occasion !

Probably a good idea - because I don't want to go into the whole fair use issue

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

If I am given sole rights to use the gantry...

Depending on your agreement you might already have them.
Talk to your usual club contact. They're still in charge.

Short-term, you have nothing to worry about. The takeover isn't complete, there'll be plenty of time to talk about that with the right people. Nobody here is "the right person."

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: darling

Originally Posted By: AF_Fulham

I know the employment law you mention.

Then you'll know that the relevant issue is copyright law, and not employment law

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act

9 Authorship of work
(1) In this Part “author”, in relation to a work, means the person who creates it.
(2) That person shall be taken to be—
(a) in the case of a ... film, the person by whom the arrangements necessary for the making of the ... film are undertaken;

In other words, Cameraman.

Quote:

Then the club would have reasonable grounds to assume that the services rendered whilst in their 'employment' are the property of the club as they paid a fee for the services and indeed let you perform your services on their property.

Think wedding photographer/videographer. You hire them, pay a fee for their services, and let them perform their services on your property. They still get the copyright (unless you agree otherwise, and you'll certainly have to pay extra $$)

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

Firstly, can I ask as to when this is all supposed to be taking effect as regards my position ?

Seeing as the takeover isn't final yet, then you should assume nothing has changed.

The prices you negotiate are really none of my business - that's between you and the club.

Quote:

Having said that, a Manager's DVD of my footage has just been shown on national and worldwide TV bulletins today without my permission and without me getting paid for that to happen, but I will let them off on this occasion !

Probably a good idea - because I don't want to go into the whole fair use issue

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

If I am given sole rights to use the gantry...

Depending on your agreement you might already have them.
Talk to your usual club contact. They're still in charge.

Short-term, you have nothing to worry about. The takeover isn't complete, there'll be plenty of time to talk about that with the right people. Nobody here is "the right person."

Many thanks for your answers.
I am totally in agreement with everything you have said there.

[andyforest]

I don't personally think you are right when you say cameraman is "(a) in the case of a ... film, the person by whom the arrangements necessary for the making of the ... film are undertaken;"

 

Surely that would be your employers. For example a hollywood movie is made, the company making the movie own the copyright, not the cameraman.

 

Do you think when league clubs are filmed for DVD's etc the cameraman owns the copyright? I wouldn't have thought so.

 

I am not an expert but what you say dosn't seem right to me.

 

Anyway best of luck, hope it all works out o.k. I wouldn't worry too much about losing your job or anything though, at least the MyFC people have said all staff will be retained.

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: andyforest

I don't personally think you are right when you say cameraman is "(a) in the case of a ... film, the person by whom the arrangements necessary for the making of the ... film are undertaken;"

Surely that would be your employers. For example a hollywood movie is made, the company making the movie own the copyright, not the cameraman.

Do you think when league clubs are filmed for DVD's etc the cameraman owns the copyright? I wouldn't have thought so.

You are quite right about the Hollywood movie and League Clubs aspect.
This is because invariably the equipment (camera, tripod, VCR's, etc.) are all owned by the movie company or club and the cameraman is a paid employee of those organisations on a set weekly wage / contract.

That is not the case here and that is where the confusion lies.

[fugazi]

Cameraman -

 

how about a 'season so far' highlights package.

 

about an hour long

 

and sell it to MYFC members, NOW

 

you'd shift 1,000+ with money spli 3 ways between you, club, and expenses,

 

get editing those goals matey. I'd love to buy a copy.

[the7wolf]

Originally Posted By: fugazi

Cameraman -

how about a 'season so far' highlights package.

about an hour long

and sell it to MYFC members, NOW

you'd shift 1,000+ with money spli 3 ways between you, club, and expenses,

get editing those goals matey. I'd love to buy a copy.

You know this is worth doing, throw them on eBay and you'll make a mint.

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: the7wolf

Originally Posted By: fugazi

Cameraman -

how about a 'season so far' highlights package.

about an hour long

and sell it to MYFC members, NOW

you'd shift 1,000+ with money spli 3 ways between you, club, and expenses,

get editing those goals matey. I'd love to buy a copy.

You know this is worth doing, throw them on eBay and you'll make a mint.

I only have the footage of Home games, except Crawley (which Setanta did live), while the Kidderminster match (5-4 win) has the first two goals missing because I was stuck in traffic on the way to the game...and no that was not my fault !!!

I will not be able to get footage of Away games from other Blue Square Premier club cameramen in time to include them on any DVD I attempt to get out before Xmas.

Also, if I do a DVD of this season's highlights so far, it will not have a commentary, narration or music on. I do not have time to script and edit all that at the moment and employing somebody else to do that job is too impractical for various reasons.
It will just have titles (captions) to inform the viewers of the team line-up for each game, who scored, substitutions, final score, etc.
A bit 'tinpot' compared to what you might see from a Premiership/Football League club, but until things are in place to have a commentator recording into the camera live at matches, that's what you will get.

Also, we still have a 'dispute' at the club as to who actually pays me for copies...the Supporters' Club Shop (run by the Trust) or the Club's Commercial Department.
There is no way I am going to 'screw' the club by flogging DVD's of this season's highlights on my own website or on e-bay myself without the club getting involved..
There are loads of old Gravesend & Northfleet match videos listed on my website which new supporters can order, but in most cases these have remained unedited unless I get a minimum order of 5 copies per match from the club (or an individual).

This is how it needs to work:
(and I have said this on here loads of times before and nothing has happened)
1) Somebody from the club (or trust shop) orders x amount of copies of a 'Season's Highlights So Far' DVD from me.
2) I then run the copies off once I receive that (bulk) order.
3) I bring them down to the club, ideally before kick-off at the Stafford Rangers match, and the club pay me £7.00 per copy for them and sell them to supporters at £11.00 per copy (not incl. p & p).
4) If they have not done so already, the club then set up their own online shop where they can take PayPal or credit card payments for the DVD's from MyFC members and existing EUFC supporters who are not in attendance at the match, and the club then post the copies off themselves.

I will try and start working on something tomorrow as I already have the highlights saved. It's just a question of trimming them down a bit more to no more than 90 minutes in total (to produce a reasonable quality 4.7GB DVD), then adding in titles & transitions, designing & printing inserts and burning the discs & labels.
If I can have some sort of guage of demand by Monday (19th Nov) to ensure I have enough stock, then there shouldn't be a problem having copies done by the 24th (Home to Stafford Rangers).

The ball is now in the club's court on this.
One thing I cannot do is run off hundreds of copies and then be 'blocked' from selling them by the club.

[rsheard]

Cameraman, I agree with you. Anything like this should be a coordinated effort with the club. That way you're compensated, the club gets some revenue, and everyone sees the benefits. can't wait to see what you come up with.