Say No! to developers building on land for sport!

[Football Man]

Originally Posted By: Rhodes

TheSpursFan - Yes these are questions that Eagles1981 should have asked and clarified first before starting the petition, I'm impressed by your thorough approach and take my hat off to you.

But Eagles1981 has repeatedly stated that this isn't just for Edgware Town and isn't just for now. The purpose of the petition is to try and be proactive to protect any club at any time in the future from having it's ground taken away by, or for the benefit of, housing developers.

It is only a petition and it may be listened to or it may be ignored but at least people who sign it are being seen to try and do something and I can't see what they have to lose by doing so. Not everyone has the "get up and go" to make a big noise in political circles but if they feel that signing this petition is helping in a small way then good luck to them.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

fair enough but then we shouldnt go blaming the council and asking Gordon Brown to step in.

 

Plenty of clubs get relegated or held back because of ground issues, I just wonder what's different about Edgware?

 

If they had a four year lease to satisfy promotion what happened to it?

 

This could happen to any club and is my reason for questioning.

[Wader]

FA Ground Grading visits have been made more accountable and are with FA chappies and those from the appropriate league or region where league chaps aren't available. In this case the Ryman would have graded the WLG for access back to their league - but they would also have had the previous grading to hand as well when Edgware were in the old Ryman 2 - cross referencing statements and evidence of tenure and any improvements or required additions would be simple one would think.

 

There was a serious relaxtion of the punitive tenure requirements a season ago after much complaint from non-league clubs, the argument being how can a 10 year tenure be demanded at NL levels when some League/Premiership clubs can't produce that!

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

In order for the developers to have bought the ground someone clearly must have sold it. Was it a private owner? Was it ever the councils property?

 

Did Edgware give up their lease or was it taken from them in some way?

 

 

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted By: Horace

Edgware sold their soul to the devil at some point in the past in order to finance their activities, and the current administration has been left to pick up the pieces

Do you know this for a fact and, if so, how would that have a bearing on the lease. We are not trying to start a witch hunt here, we are just interested in the circumstances and how it came about that Edgware suddenly lost their ground overnight with no warning being given, indeed Gavin seemed to be the last to know and he is Match Secretary at the Club.

[Krooner]

10/10 for asking TSF but reckon yuo should pack in asking the same question over and over albeit dressed up as something different. It matters not now why as it has happened, Edgware have moved on and there will be flats on the WLG soon.

[Rhodes]

I would be interested to get Uncle Urchin's expert take on all of this, I'm sure it would be an insight and he would put us all right. I hope he comes on soon.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

Krooner from my ccl posts you know why Im asking and whilst I may never get a full answer I keep learning.

 

If its all of Edgwares making here, I wont be rushing off to their last friendlies with my piggy bank and a hammer.

 

And instead of petitioning Brown and boycotting Barratt homes I'll be looking through a few "boardroom" windows.

 

 

 

 

[Wader]

I'm pretty certain the whole site was owned by brewers Scottish/Newcastle. I believe they built the Hotel at the front and always wanted to flog their asset at the back for housing as well (WLG). It is quite probable that it was they who did the deal to flog it to the housing developer and the timing was because they knew the lease on the football ground was coming to a close in the not too dim and distant. One could speculate that the lease had effectively expired and was on a holding over agreement until Scottish/Newcastle could get the right planning or find the right buyer. Either way, (and only Edgware themselves and their landlord will know the facts) it's pretty irrelevant. At some point, this year, next year or in two years time, the place was going under the bulldozer. These big companies don't muck about when it comes to earning a few bob from what they see as non-profitable land.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

thanks wader.

 

We will never stop private landowners making the most of their assets even if it means them kicking a sports club off their traditional home.

 

Still leaves some of my questions though.

 

What happened to the lease?

 

Did Edgware jump or were they pushed?

 

 

[Wader]

As I say, it was either at the fag end of its life, or was being held over after expiry for a short term. The football rent achievable on the land wouldn't have made happy reading on the landlords balance sheet when compared to its sale asset value. I assume as well that the lease was signed on terms outside the Landlord & Tenant Act, meaning that some statutory rights (including renewal) were withdrawn from said terms. There is no brightside of this save the fact there won't be any reparation costs incurred on the tenant/leaseholder, depending of course on whether it was an FRI lease or not.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

No i dont expect they will want the carpets cleaning.

 

The rent coming in from a sports club would be nothing like the interest earned on the sale proceeds.

 

This is a scenario very similar to my home town club.

I asked a hypothetical question there a while back.

 

How grateful might a property developer or landowner be if a tenant were to give up their right to stay?

 

I say this again as this thread seems to be blaming councils, landowners and developers.

 

I wonder if they are the only bad guys from a sporting viewpoint?

 

 

[GRS67]

As Rhodes states I am NOT privvy to private details about the club, I am after all just a supporter who helps the club in any way I can.

 

We have six PSF at the WLG, and then move on to Earlsmead, Harrow Borough, the club are going to be looking at securing a ground to call our own and that will continue. Right now we are very happy that Harrow Borough have stepped in to help us, and the Ryman league have allowed us to carry on.

 

Why not come down to one of the Six PSF and say goodbye to the WLG, you will all be made mose welcome

[Rhodes]

Gavin - Did you see the thread on the Essex Senior League site about your plight, the link below may not work as I'm having trouble attaching links but the posts are generally sympathetic and well meaning:

 

http://www.nonleague.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1164531/gonew/1#UNREAD

 

 

 

[Football Man]

Blimey, clip Rods. You're being adventurous, setting foot outside the mother ship SSML to test the water in the ESL forum. Careful you don't get a nosebleed!

[Rhodes]

True but we are playing at Eton Manor on Saturday and I was just telling their fan, sorry fans, to bring their autograph books and cameras along.

[Wader]

Notwithstanding the above there are other alternatives. For example, with a lease of 4 years remaining there could be a gift of early relinquish negotiated, usually only as long as all fiscal and tenancy matters were sufficed, up to date and in proper order.

 

In cases where it may be appropriate, developers of course are known to gift beyond and outside of any lease demands in order to gain early vacant possession if necessary. In others I have seen even the lease was 'at the bank' and so options severely limited if any at all.

 

It really is too difficult to call and as I say in this instance there are too many permeables - and anyway it is really a private matter surely for the tenant and their landlord. The end result of a 'home' at Earlsmead that has been negotiated must surely be the only focus for now.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

well thanks for clearing that up Rumpole!

 

so we should stop feeling sorry for edg(e)ware fc because they are in the ryman, have somewhere to play and they can pay their players again. Possibly beyond their income.

And someone may have received an item at a service station in a brown envelope that may be useful to prevent further leaks.

Labelled gift of early relinquish.

Another club has a tenant to bolster revenue, and another merger could be on the cards.

 

A private matter.........

 

 

[Wader]

There was a debate recently knocking about in FA Towers and amongst some leagues that was appropriate. The belief by some is that groundsharing between neighbour clubs is going to become more and more commonplace and in fact should be encouraged. From purely an accountants viewpoint that makes some sense. From a fans terrace point it probably doesn't.

 

Stadium/sports facility 'franchises' are something I would love to get into at some time in the future. It will definitely be the way forward in years to come.

[Jeff Hamnett TSF]

lots of problems with groundshares, who gets the bar money, fruity money, well only one usually!

Where do reserve sides play, a youth side, where is training?