What options did the board have?

[Hempstead Gaz]

Limited, to my mind.

Clearly, despite one of the most successful seasons in the club's history, support is still appalling.

Average 1165 - see this.

 

The club to it's credit tried almost everying in it's power to increase that, kids for a quid, canvassing scholls with free tickets, reduced admissions, buy one get one free, none really worked.

On crowds of 1165, assuming 250 season ticket holders, 815 adults and 100 children (my guess), this gives us a fortnightly gate return of approx. £12600 - or £6300 per week.

We get a bit from the bar, a bit from programmes, £300+ from Harry (well done!!!) and bits from the tea huts.

Trying to run a full time club with 20 odd full time players + 2 managers and coach is simply unsustainable on that minimal level of income.

Clearly the board have been topping up the shortfalls, and as has been alluded to recently by Jason, this cannot go on.

Sponsorship helps, but it should not be treated as income, more a way of funding improvements.

Continuing as we are is unsustainable, we are looking down the barrel of financial difficulties unless things turn around - and keeping the status quo, not moving forward, one can only see a return to part-time and relegation in the not too distant future.

 

The ground is falling down and is rotting. Any improvements are throwing money away, as it will be bulldozed in 3-6 years.

The trouble is, adding the seats at the Nothfleet End took away covered standing room for everyone else.

On wet days and nights, you either have to sit or huddle under the main road stand like cattle in a pen.

It is a crap view unless you are 6'2" like me.

 

The reason for poor gates are several.

Poor ground.

Poor branding - people of Gravesham who do not follow Fleet regard them as a glorified pub side.

Certainly not worth paying £12 to watch.

The product is good, the fan potential is there (as evidenced by the Canvey 4098!!), but the marketing lets the club down, and in truth, the name Gravesend and Northfleet does not easily lend itself to market leading products or companies.

At Aston Villa, Mr Ham Man got the best publicity of his life, and he was a local butcher.

Austrian Airlines came on board, and grateful we were, but behind the scenes, were there conditions to be met for them to continue?

Probably yes, which was why they were dropped.

 

I'm am not sure the board had any other options but to rename the club, with a new brand, big publicity, tapping into the Ebbsfleet area was clearly the only realistic way forward, and the board have taken the only (some will say risky gamble) option left.

 

I'm still uneasy with the name- as has been said on here, Ebbsfleet United is trying to attract crowds from houses yet to be built, at the cost of alienating fans from Gravesend and Northfleet areas.

 

 

Perhaps a little more consultation would have been helpful, at the end of the day it is the supporters who do supply much of the income, and without those supporters the club would cease to exist.

 

My one question to Jason and the board is:

"Why couldn't you have consulted the fanbase before the name change - giving us alternatives?.

Most would be happier changing the name if they felt they had input or some degree of say in the matter.

My ballot names would have been:

Ebbsfleet Utd

Gravesham Borough

Gravesham Utd

 

Sorry this has been a bit wordy, but I trying to remain optomistic over the change, and I am trying to keep objectivity and balance in the debate.

 

[John Pearce]

Whilst I agree with many of your comments CG, I must take issue with you about the club trying everything to attact larger crowds.

 

(i) When was the last time you saw a poster anywhere in the Gravesend and/or Northfleet area advertising forthcoming matches.

(ii) Whilst the 'kids for a quid' etc iniatives showed that the club were prepared to try to use 'promotional' ideas to attract those missing numbers, the fact is that all of those iniatives are worthless if they are not advertised well or with sufficient warning.

 

THe trouble is and will be for the forseeable future, the 'Fleet are now a professional club in name, but effectively run by well meaning amateurs!

[Hempstead Gaz]

Morning, John,

 

As you say, the problem lies in the marketing department. We have Greg Bettles, who needs a professional marketing team behind him.

It will cost money - but savings could be made by trimming the squad (do we need 2 full time keepers, when we get in loanees if Lance is injured?).

However, if the marketing team are good at their job, the income they generate will exceed their expenditure.

[Bill Kent]

For one. Try the St Georges Centre.

[Eastside Urchin]

perhaps you need new people running the club with new ideas rather than trying to move in on an area that hasn't even been built yet.

And with regards to the crowd considering you have a league club ten miles down the road and a premier league club within 20 miles they are not bad,they are probably no difference to dagenhams at the start of the season,the only reason they got more is because they went to the top of the league and stayed there.Most of the clubs with the big crowds in the conference are from teams like oxford,york,exeter etc etc,teams that were established football league clubs for many years.

Sure you get big crowds from a few clubs who have always been non league like stevenage but the majority are around the 1000-1500 mark

[Hempstead Gaz]

If we need double glazing for the new ground, at least we know who to ask!

[Eastside Urchin]

cheers,the old ones are definatly not the best,do you have any new material nowadays,i don't really like repeats!

[Hempstead Gaz]

Then don't come on here and read it!!

If our board need advice on how to run a football club, I'm sure Hornchurch are probably one of the finest examples of how NOT to.

But thank you for Paul McCarthy!!

[Eastside Urchin]

two promotions on the trot.lessons have been learnt,we will be playing you lot in the conference south in two years.Anyway are you lot still bitter about the F.A.cup beating we gave you three years ago.

Anyway if and when we move we will make sure we move within our area and not to some imaginary town outside of gravesnd,just had another look at the map and still can't find ebbsfleet!

[Hempstead Gaz]

That's because you are looking at an old map, and are looking outside of Gravesend.

Try looking between Northfleet and the A2. Blo*dy big open space where Ebbsfleet station is.

Try looking at Thames Gateway on Google!!!

[Eastside Urchin]

no still can't find it.I have southfleet on there,did you not think of changing it to that???

[Eastside Urchin]

what about perry street rovers,that has a ring to it???

[Stu M]

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

Anyway are you lot still bitter about the F.A.cup beating we gave you three years ago.

And there you were talking about new material...

[American FLEET FAN No1]

I hate to say it, but at the moment, it is very much Ebbsfleet Dis-united! Only time will tell whether this move works or not!

[Eastside Urchin]

Originally Posted By: Stu M

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

Anyway are you lot still bitter about the F.A.cup beating we gave you three years ago.

And there you were talking about new material...

Come on stu,let it go,you only got beat by a pub side that time,its not worth stewing over!!

[Eastside Urchin]

it just seems to me like the owners of the club have been convinced that the towns of gravesend & northfleet are on their last legs and not fit to host a conference size club so they are moving in on a new market down the road where the majority of people buying the new houses etc will be from out of the area probably already supporting another club!

[Jeff]

Totally agree with you UM.

 

I am more of the opinion, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I think that this must be tied into a sponsorship deal that has yet to be made public.

Time will reveal all.

 

Fleet Disunited is not far off the truth judging from reading these posts.

 

 

[eufckev]

Looking at the marketing side, I think we should go along the same lines as Canvey Island: Put up permanent billboards of Ebbsfleet Utd's next home fixtures around Gravesend, Northfleet, Swanscombe and Greenhithe. Canvey Island are 3 or 4 league below us, and they are strongly advertising.

 

I have been noticeing slight improvements in putting up advertisements in the past couple of months for Gravesend & Northfleet fixtures, but only the odd black and white posters around Gravesend town centre. From what I recall, I saw one in the Thamesgate Centre and one in the St. George's Centre. More advertisements are needed around the town centre, but also in all pubs, clubs and maybe even schools and local workplaces.

[Graham S]

Sorry about the length of this, but like Gary & others, I've been mulling over it since Tuesday night, trying to get my thoughts in order. This is how I see it.

 

I must admit hearing the announcement on Tuesday initially left me feeling very empty, then hoping that this had been done out of calculation & not desperation. By the end of the discussion, I was prepared to back the decision because, like others who I guess rather reluctantly went along with the proposal, I back the board's judgement, not out of blind loyalty but because they have built a reputation for careful, planned, level headed development.

 

I may be wrong, but I think people asking how this will increase our attendances are missing the point to some extent. At the meeting, Jason referred specifically to it improving our chance of securing business partnerships & sponsorships in the near future, although he also said that the new sponsorship to be announced at the start of June was not the reason for the change. Clearly we cannot support a full time squad on our gate receipts. We need serious sponsorship & other forms of income. If the name change has to happen to secure this, all well & good. If it's just a shot in the dark, what's the point? However, the board, on past experience, don't go in for reckless innovations.

 

Not that long ago we were pretty desperate about Gillingham approaching our council over sites in the borough, in what looked like a shameless move by their chairman to cash in on the Ebbsfleet development. Even the local paper & the leader of the council initially supported the idea, clearly seeing Gillingham as a "real" football club & us as an irrelevance. A lot of us worked really hard lobbying people to turn that attitude around & I was pleased & a bit surprised to get considered & supportive replies from Chris Pond, our then MP, Adam Holloway who replaced him & John Burden, the leader of the borough council, who like the local paper appeared to have a change of heart.

 

What is going on at Ebbsfleet could transform this club. We have been extremely lucky to have it happen literally within a stone's throw of our present ground. (Mr Urchin please note this re your earlier comments.) If we didn't try & use it to our advantage it would be an unforgivable negligence. Obviously the board feel that the name change is an essential part of what has to be done.

 

The announcement of the new sponsors at the start of June should tell us quite a lot about how the club is likely to progress in the immediate future, as will what happens before then with retaining players & drafting in new ones. Chas Webster, who orchestrated a key part of our keep Gillingham out campaign, referred, during his Internet commentary on Saturday, to Tuesday's meeting as part of "exciting times to come." He will know more than we do, so we can only hope his optimism is well founded for our long term prospects.

 

Graham S

 

[jc]

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

And with regards to the crowd considering you have a league club ten miles down the road and a premier league club within 20 miles they are not bad,they are probably no difference to dagenhams at the start of the season,the only reason they got more is because they went to the top of the league and stayed there.Most of the clubs with the big crowds in the conference are from teams like oxford,york,exeter etc etc,teams that were established football league clubs for many years.
Sure you get big crowds from a few clubs who have always been non league like stevenage but the majority are around the 1000-1500 mark

There is a lot of truth in this. We may continually go on about how disappointed we are that the average attendance never seems to go much above 1100/1200, but we need to be realistic: this is the fifth level of English football, and some people will never care about it regardless of our success in this division. In theory, attendances would increase in a new ground, but even then there will be a realistic expected limit to this increase that would only be raised in the event of promotion up a division or two.