The Offical Ebbsfleet United History Thread.

[JFW]

KShep, I totally agree, well said that man.

[DarrenGNFC]

I was just looking at our rather deprived Wikipedia page and saw the "Founded: 1946" bit. Should this be changed to 2007? I mean, it's more than a name change, isn't it? It's the hope that a new area with new people will support the team, therefore being more than just Gravesend and Northfleet.

 

As it's a bit more than a name change, should the foundation date be changed? I get the feeling it should, but I imagine many will disagree. Regardless of whether you're for or against the name change, I think saying it's "the same team" is a bit inaccurate. It's the previous amalgamation of two town's teams, plus a new previously teamless town. Even if the old side was considered "Gravesham's team", with the club being called Ebbsfleet we've now expanded our catchment area, as from what I gather, quite a bit of Ebbsfleet is not in Gravesham. So therefore a new team, surely?

 

So...new foundation date?

[Eastside Urchin]

surely if you re name a club and move away then its a different club

[DarrenGNFC]

To be fair, we haven't moved away and allegedly the new ground will be in Gravesham.

[Robbo]

If you think about it though, the club is no longer located in the town it's named after.

[Eastside Urchin]

my take is that your club will be looking to get more fans from this new area and the old area where the club comes from will be neglected in terms of bringing in new fans

[DarrenGNFC]

Somehow I didn't think of it like that. But yes, of course, you're right.

 

Either way, if we don't change it to 2007, then surely we have no choice but to go the other route and change it to 1890 - the foundation date of Northfleet United - and thereby acknowledge all the contributions, evolutions, mergers, expansions along the way?

 

Although I imagine the board wouldn't do either, over fear of upsetting the fans even more.

[eufckev]

Originally Posted By: Robbo

If you think about it though, the club is no longer located in the town it's named after.

Is the ground located in the town? It's located 100-200m from the boundary of the Dartford and Gravesham districts.

[eufckev]

Originally Posted By: KShep

We are losing the name, there's no denying that, but we are still the same club that lined up against Dagenham on the 28th April. The supporters are still the same, there's the Plough End 'cauldron of noise ;)', there are the halfway liners who are a constant figure there, as well as their song of 'Come on youuuu Reeeeds' when we're flying, there's going to be Jarvis selling tickets and Kenny selling programmes at the first game of next season, much the same as last game last season, and we'll all be cheering on the team in red and white. The supporters, the colours, the pride we all feel and the attitudes and soul embodied in the club are all the same, and that to me is much more important than the name I walk under as I pass through the turnstiles.

Gravesend and Northfleet does mean alot to me, but the club itself means more to me than the name it goes by. We are still the club who hold the longest run in the FA Cup, our history is the same. From my perspective, all that's happened is a tiny facelift on top of a truly great club which is, by the looks of things, grasping rare opportunities with both hands to take us onto bigger and better things.

Totally agree, Kayne! You've hit the nail on the head for me.

PS: You forgot to mention me!

[Harry J Allstars]

I don't think it means a new foundation date, it is still the same club, the only difference being the name.

 

Using that theory then the team we watched at Dagenham on saturday was different to the team we watched at Villa eleven years ago. The same name but different players. In fact the name and the fans are the only things that are the same.

 

That's what this is all about as long as the people from this area and the local community still support the club then that's all that is important.

 

Whether you like the name change or not you have to be pleased about how we're debating this. I knew we could debate things like adults, I'm so happy.

[DarrenGNFC]

Yes, I too find it heartwarming how this is being debated, although a few people do sound like they've just logged on after a long session listening to all their punk CDs and watching their Bill Hicks collection. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

But again, with the foundation: I just don't think it can be called the same team, what with the expansion in its catchment area/territory. Gravesend & Northfleet was always referred to as "Gravesham's team" (although I'm not sure how the people of Higham, Meopham, Cobham etc. felt about this...) and now we've expanded, it can't really be accurately called the same team. I don't think it's pedantic to pick up on this, as someone said Ebbsfleet will have 25,000 citizens one day, which is about a quarter of Gravesham population. So that's certainly a sizeable addition to the club.

 

To be honest, I think the whole situation is a bit confusing and messy, but the 1946 date just now seems rather inaccurate. The club's roots begin in 1890 with the foundation of Northfleet United, then after the arrival of a new team, name-changing (Gravesend Ormonde, anyone? Bit confusing, this period..) some merging and breaking away, going bust etc. Gravesend and Northfleet F.C., bringing together the teams of the towns of Gravesend and Northfleet came along. Then in 2007, the team's catchment area expanded to include the future town of Ebbsfleet, partly in Dartford......Hmm this would be so much easier if Ebbsfleet was already a fully functioning town with a team, woundn't it? We could just see it as a merger and view our history as a series of mergers and the argument of changing our foundation date to 1890 or 2007 would be much more easier to convey.

 

The fans may be the same for now, but it is of course hoped that the town of Ebbsfleet will generate some new fans for us.

 

Historically, teams and clubs of all varieties were by and large formed by people in an area without one but who'd like one, whereas we appear to have pre-empted the future inhabitants of this enigmatic future town by saying: "don't get any ideas, lads. It's the Fleet or nothing." Although to be fair, these new chaps will hardly be noble tribesmen exploring and occupying previously unknown areas of the earth's vast land, so I don't think the board's conscience should be too heavy.

 

P.S. It's a bit painful putting Ebbsfleet in Wikipedia and reading Ebbsfleet (Dartford), Kent, England. Still, we all know the old Wikipedia rule: If it doesn't agree with you, it's been edited by a biased member and is therefore wrong.

[Stu M]

Originally Posted By: Harry J Allstars

I don't think it means a new foundation date, it is still the same club, the only difference being the name.

Exactly... the team name has changed, nothing else. Regardless of the way you feel about it, the FACTS of the matter are that the club is the same club, bar the name. It's the same limited company, with the same directors and the same branding (colours, badge, etc).

It hasn't merged with another club, it hasn't gone bust or ceased to exist and been forced to start another club/company (like AFC Hornchurch, for instance) and its geographical location hasn't changed, regardless of whether it is targeting new 'Ebbsfleeters' or it moves stadium... which as stated is likely to be within Gravesham anyway.

[Hirsty]

Who is Bill Hicks ?

 

Cheers,

 

[DarrenGNFC]

Well it is a bit different, I think. I don't recall anyone saying "Gravesend & Northfleet are Gravesham and that little bit of Dartford borough's side." We're clearly expanding a bit. Damn us and our imperialist ways...

[DarrenGNFC]

Originally Posted By: Hirsty

Who is Bill Hicks ?

Cheers,

A rather angry comedian who raged against the capitalist system in the late '80s/early '90s and then died at the grand age of 32 in 1994.

I just thought the bloke who started the "disgrace" thread sounded like he'd lifted a few quotes from him...

Cheers,

Darren.

[Hirsty]

Ok, thanks. Always willing to learn something new.

 

Cheers,

 

[BustaGut]

Having just got back from a short break I find I am no longer a Gravesend &NorthFleet supporter. I am not sure about it as yet, have read the comments above and can undestand the emotions from both sides of the fence. I have been entertained (loosely) by them from about 1960 had some exciting and enjoyable times, and also some dire times.Looking on the bright side it gives us chance to revamp a lot of things that may brighten up the clubs Image.To be honest the name Gravesend, brings probably more derision from other clubs Fans than anything else, Dead end club, in a Dead end place etc etc etc.

To totally change our colours maybe, revamp or totally change the offical club web site,Run a competion to design a new club badge.

I am dissappointed that we may not be getting a new ground for several years. Tidy up our ground as much as you like but unless your going to expand it, throws lots of money at it. your never going to make a pigs ear into a silk purse.A Lease for 150 years is trying to obtained did I read on our present ground ?? Makes me feel obtaining a new ground may just be way way into the future, proably past my lifetime.

Unless we make use of this change in name to change things and rectify some old mistakes,

Lets take a more positive view and say we are buliding a new club and a new start from the ashes of the phoenix.

One question i have to ask. The season tickets that were sold under the Name of Gravesend and Northfleet,on the preason season budget bargain, are they legal???,If the Club new when that offer went out that they intended changing the clubs name surley thats misrepresentation of goods,As I dont believe it was a spur of the moment thing, as a number of people said they do not want to support Ebbsfleet,(sad I know)But should they not have been told they may not actually of been buying a item they thought they were!!!! Is only a thought and nothing malice ment. but had to ask the question . On a final note I will still be Busting a gut with my support, no matter the colour of our shirts, the design of our badge our sponsors.Will always be the same old fleet to me

 

[Eastside Urchin]

there is no doubt that in name afc hornchurch is a different club from Hornchurch FC,that name change was obviously forced but in everything else Hornchurch fc still exist under the banner AFC Hornchurch.The fans are the same,club is in the same stadium(for the time being)facilities are the same and we think of ourselves as hornchurch fans.Obviously you fans will feel the same about your club when they move it is just a different senario i feel,as you will be moving out of gravesend/northfleet and calling yourself another name,just hope for you guys that the population of gravesend/northfleet don't turn their back on the club

[Stu M]

Originally Posted By: urchin_mentalist

as you will be moving out of gravesend/northfleet

Not true Urchin... the site that is being considered is inside Gravesham. This whole 'moving to another area' just isn't the case.

[Hempstead Gaz]

Urchin has already been told that a score of times today.

I'm not sure he has grasped the concept that a move to a new ground within sight of the old one is still in Gravesham, not Milton Keynes.