AFC Wimbledon Punishment

[Guest]

We did not gain an 'unfair' advantage as JD was technically eligible, we just didn't get the form through, which we've held our hands up to.

 

I just don't know how anyone can claim that 18 points is a fair penalty for this oversight? Clubs get less for matching-fixing and going into admin.

 

Sounds to me like this has been just another excuse to moan about how unfair it is that we have a fanbase that are prepared to help their club fight tooth and nail against a ridiculous penalty. I know and you know you'd all do the same in our position. Perhaps instead of having a pop at us, you should look at the people who came up with this rule just last season?

[Guest]

Guys, the Ryman League rule no 14 states that a team can appeal a decision by the League. We did and won our appeal. It's not bullying, it's called due process. I absolutely guarantee you that if the same thing happened to your Club, we would whole heartedly support you. If you had a bucket collection to assist with your defense costs, we would chuck our donations into it. Honestly we would.

 

We went through some bad moments over the past 2 months and lost a lot of money. There is no way that our Club would willingly try to cheat the system or try to gain unfair advantage. This is not what a Fans Club is suppose to do. It was a bad and honest mistake. The player was retired and our secretary filled the form using his best interpretation. The form is unclear, the question is "Previous Club/Other Clubs this season". The answer is obviously NONE!!! Anyone who read that form would think exactly the same. We now now that is not the case but don't suggest that we cheated or tried to deceive anyone.

 

I'll leave it to you to judge but don't think that we acted in an unsportsmanlike way.

 

Regards,

 

Brazilian Don

[A Rebel and a Saint]

im sure that afcw havent done anything wrong with this appeal, but it seems compeltely pointless to threaten a club with an 18 point suspension in the first place if the appeal board reduces it to just 3.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Martin

(snip)The rules of registration are there for a reason. I don't see why they don't apply in the usual way to this situation. The FA talks of specific and unusual reasons - that is what needs to be clarified.

Martin, the FA themselves say that those rules are there to prevent players who are suspended under one FA to play for another team in a different country thus avoiding the penalty OR to stop players under contract to transfer to another club without paying compensation to the previous team (including youth team players) - Bosman Ruling on free transfer.

As you see, neither applied in Jermaine Darlington's case. He was not ineligible, he was registered with the League.

Believe me, we don't wish the same on any other Club.

BTW, there seem to be a rumor on the Margate forum that Ramsgate might have played an ineligible player in the County Cup. Is that cheating in any way or is that an administrative oversight?

You be the judge.

Regards,

Brazilian Don

We should all ask the League and the FA why is it that we pay them to manage the player registration and we get nothing from it. Why is it that the onus of proof resides solely with the Club.

[Mr Happy]

Originally Posted By: Anonymous

Guys, the Ryman League rule no 14 states that a team can appeal a decision by the League. We did and won our appeal. It's not bullying, it's called due process. I absolutely guarantee you that if the same thing happened to your Club, we would whole heartedly support you. If you had a bucket collection to assist with your defense costs, we would chuck our donations into it. Honestly we would.

We went through some bad moments over the past 2 months and lost a lot of money. There is no way that our Club would willingly try to cheat the system or try to gain unfair advantage. This is not what a Fans Club is suppose to do. It was a bad and honest mistake. The player was retired and our secretary filled the form using his best interpretation. The form is unclear, the question is "Previous Club/Other Clubs this season". The answer is obviously NONE!!! Anyone who read that form would think exactly the same. We now now that is not the case but don't suggest that we cheated or tried to deceive anyone.

I'll leave it to you to judge but don't think that we acted in an unsportsmanlike way.

Regards,

Brazilian Don

You broke the rules that you voted for at the start of the season. Rules that other clubs have broken and have been punished for. Therefore the 18 point penalty should stand as otherwise a precedent for rule breaking has been set. The problem is that people see AFCW as a wonderful example of how a football club should be run and, as a supporter of a club that was set up in very similar circumstances, to an extent I agree. However, this should not mean that you get the sympathy vote. I wonder whether you would have got the same support from politicians if you were a club that was owned by an individual. I also think that by appealing and winning this appeal you have won a lot of negative publicity in the nonleague game. Add this to comments of some of your other fans on other sites I have seen such as that shown below and I feel that you have some very big bridges to cross now:

The ghost of Plough Lane, today at 13:09:31
User: Plough Lane Ghost - profile
Views: 111

I would still like us to push to get the FA Trophy and SSC decisions overturned. We won't get reinstated but I'd like an apology and our prize money returned. I also think we should fight to get the points deduction reduced to zero.

Take the FA, the Rymans all the way to the European court of arbitration or whatever it's called. It might take some time but so what, we are quite able to continue this for the next few years while we continue our hopeful progress up the leagues.

Dont give a flying figg if it bankrupts every team in non-league.

I'm quite happy to donate to any fighting fund for this too.

Oh, and why on earth does your website lay claim to the honours won by Wimbledon FC/MK Dons. WE at Enfield Town are very happy with the honours we have won in our short lifetime and don't need to lay claim to the honours won by Enfield FC.

[Martin]

I do appreciate what you are saying Brazilian Don. But the FA say themselves that the Ryman League applied the punishment properly. My view was that the punishment was harsh but ultimately under the League Rules fair. You've appealed and won - congratulations - but I suspect the reason the appeal was won was because of who you are and not the actual merits of the appeal. Ultimately I think the FA have caused themselves a real problem here.

 

I also think part of the problem is how AFC are perceived in non-league circles. The vast majority of your fans are great and I work with one and we regularly talk the non-league game. But the odd few do spoil it and breed resentment which may be another reason why the appeal result has been taken badly.

[mal316]

Originally Posted By: Anonymous

The form is unclear, the question is "Previous Club/Other Clubs this season". The answer is obviously NONE!!! Anyone who read that form would think exactly the same. We now now that is not the case but don't suggest that we cheated or tried to deceive anyone.

Brazillian Don, why is the answer none, I though that AFCW signed him from Cardiff, or he had played at Cardiff this season?

If so then the line under the one quoted (and it is in bold on the form) should have given the secretary a clue:-

If last Club outside England, has International Transfer Certificate been obtained*

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: mal316

Brazillian Don, why is the answer none, I though that AFCW signed him from Cardiff, or he had played at Cardiff this season?

The answer is 'none' as he retired from professional football last season and was brought out of retirement this season to play for AFC Wimbledon...

Therefore, at the time of his registration he was had played for no-one else *this season*...

[Martin]

I think this may be the crux of the problem I think the player had not played for Cardiff this season and had been either a free agent or playing amateur football.

[Guest]

Martin, you are not wrong. Examples like the one quoted by Mr Happy above does the Club no favors.

 

To respond to a couple of points made by Mr Happy, I can tell you that the vast majority of supporters have been with Wimbledon FC/AFCW for life. I cannot answer any points regarding the history or claims to it because I only support the Club for the past 2 1/2 years (I used to be a Liverpool couch supporter). I could ask the Club and post a reply here, if you wish.

 

Martin, I can also tell you that the hearing chairman asked Turvey four times if he thought that 18 points was too harsh of a penalty to levy on a Club for what it seemed as an administrative error and his reply was "that was our only option". Four times and his answers were all the same. I reckon his approach was contemptuous toward the panel and that might have helped our cause.

 

I can also tell you that the board started its instructions by saying they wanted to hear only facts. Nothing but facts which means that petitions, letters of support, Tony Blair's support or anything else mattered.

 

Our QC, which BTW worked pro bono, presented a good argument in law (based on the rules which all the clubs voted and approved) and showed that the punishment was excessive.

 

What "The Ghost of Plow Lane" has said is a heated statement and one which the Club would never pursue. There are no grounds for further appeals because our appeal has already been succesfully submited.

 

As far as the FA Trophy expulsion, there is no appeal allowed by the FA. Our only route would be via the International Court for Arbitration of Sports (CAS), which is a body recognised by FIFA for disputes against national and international organisations (where most disputes in athletics regarding doping offenses are heard). Unfortunately, The FA does not accept to be taken to CAS and we cannot force them to do so. That is a case for UEFA and FIFA to demand that The FA do (and I think they should).

 

We don't agree that there should be no appeal. That is utterly unfair on anyone. I'm sure you would also not like to be submited to such treatment.

 

The Surrey FA also did not allow an appeal of our expulsion from the Surrey Senior Cup.

 

Onwards and upwards. That's life.

 

Regards,

 

Wagner

 

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: mal316

Brazillian Don, why is the answer none, I though that AFCW signed him from Cardiff, or he had played at Cardiff this season?

If so then the line under the one quoted (and it is in bold on the form) should have given the secretary a clue:-

If last Club outside England, has International Transfer Certificate been obtained*

As someone mentioned already, Jermaine Darlington retired from senior football last may, by mutual consent between Cardiff City and the player. Jermaine had played a handfull of games for Cardiff during the 2005/2006 season and thought that his persistant injury had put paid to his football carreer.

After treatment and rest, he started playing Sunday park football and realised that he felt good enough to have another go. Our manager, Dave Anderson, approached JD and offered him to train with the team a have a few outings with the reserves. He did so for 3 or 4 matches.

I can also tell you that JD plays for us for "a nominal fee" which I'd doubt would cover much more than his expenses. The man loves the Club and the supporters love having the first former Wimbledon FC player to "come home".

As you can see, Cardiff seemed a million miles away and an International Transfer Certificate was the last thing in our Club's Secretary's mind. We now know how wrong that was.

You see why there are atenuating circumstances to the case, which the Ryman League did not have scope to observe but the FA appeal panel did, hence the decision.

The "Rules is Rules" brigade should not throw stones. It could happen to anyone.

As you can see in the Kentish Football website, Ramsgate might have fallen foul of the "ineligible player syndrome". I hate Ramsgate as a club (intentional lower case) but hate to see that again, a football result might be decided in the blazer's room instead of on the pitch. I don't wish that situation on anyone, not even Ramsgate.

See you on Saturday at The Fans Stadium.

Regards,

Brazilian Don

[Brazilian Don]

BTW, I registered for the Forum so no one starts posting as myself.

[BFR]

It is probably worth pointing out that Mr Happy is from another forum and not a Slough Supporter

[Brazilian Don]

Thanks KT.

 

As I see in the Ramsgate Forum, their club is under investigation by the Kent FA for allegedly fielding an ineligible player against Tonbridge Angels. They could be thrown out of the Cup or - more importantly - they could be made to replay the match.

 

This is also a question which was put to the league during the hearing. "Mr Turvey, you had an option to order AFCW to replay the matches where they won while Jermaine Darlington's registration was not complete. Why didn't you use that option?"

 

His answer (I paraphrase): "We used the only option available to us"

 

As you see, "rules is rules" but there are rules and there are rules.

 

I really don't understand why people can be so bitter and suggest that we cheated.

 

Did Ramsgate cheat? I don't think so. I think it is a simple administrative mistake.

 

See you all Saturday.

 

Brazilian Don

[Martin]

It has to be said that people like Brazilian Don are Wagner are the type of fans AFC need and make a good case. I don't think anyone with any sense thinks AFC cheated it appears to be an error that could have happened to anyone.

[Mr Happy]

Taken from elsewhere on these fora:

 

For immediate release

 

James Cross, a lifelong Kingstonian supporter has today launched an online petition calling for the confirmation of the 18 point deduction for the breach of regulations by AFC Wimbledon in the registration of one of its players. This is done to counter the bias in the debate and to put the other perspective. James feels that AFC Wimbledon get a free ride from tame hacks, mediocre rent-a-quote politicians and the football press.

 

Cross commented “When we heard about the 18 point deduction naturally we felt that this seemed a draconian measure however the precedent was there and the rules were in place when the season started. However with their permanent sense of victimhood AFC Wimbledon soon made this rather innocuous affair seem very sinister and events took a grim turn. AFC Wimbledon have tried to portray themselves as victims in this when it is they who have broken the regulations. If this was a victimless offence then there would be no need for the rules but they are there for a purpose – to prevent the poaching of players. AFC Wimbledon need to behave with grace and dignity, stop playing the martyr and accept their punishment. Articles from tame hacks and the fanboy football press such as When Saturday Comes have been not only short on fact and long on sentimentality. Many in the football community are getting fed up of this continual petulant child act from AFC Wimbledon’s fan base and believe it is time for them to move on.”

 

I urge you to sign this petition. Thank you for your time in reading this.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/AFCWimbledonFC/#detail

 

Responding to comments about threats and intimidation a shaken Cross commented “I had originally planned to launch the petition on Sunday 25th March even though it was active however some AFC Wimbledon fans became aware of it and made comment about it on Kingstonians forum. However even more sinister were some threatening and mischievious comments on the petition from their fans. Having someone say they know where I live is a worry to me and knowing that some elements of their support are trying to frighten me into backing down makes me realise I need to pursue this. I am genuinely frightened at the threatening comment and frightened for my wife and son as well however I know this petition is correct. I would also urge the popular press who so worship at the altar of AFC Wimbledon to look further at the acquisition of Kingsmeadow and how that deal came about.”

 

James Cross – Mr Kingstonian

 

 

Notes to editors – James Cross is a life-long Kingstonian fan who organised a successful online petition calling for the removal of the previous management team at Kingstonian. James works in IT and lives in Camberley with his wife and son.

[Guest]

And you choose to post this here why?

[Mr Happy]

To continue the debate that has been going on here. That's why.

[Guest]

In what way have you continued the debate - all you have done is cut and paste a lot of nonsense about James Cross

[Mr Happy]

Why is it nonsense? From looking around these fora, it would appear that the decision by the FA has angered a large number of non league fans.