PASE players......

[Matt (GNFC)]

Seeing as we're all bored waiting for some news id thought id raise a debate....

 

Are we ever going to produce a player thats good enough to play for Gravesend and Northfleet on a consistent basis?? We have a team of young PASE players, yet surely arent all the decent youngsters already picked up by other Nationwide League clubs? We can go on abt Jamie Coyle etc etc but he's been released without being a success. If this scheme costs the club money then it should be pulled. Discuss !!!!

[David Holden]

Well if Jamie hadn't thrown his toys out of his pram he would probably have still been with us and could have developed into a decent first teamer in time.

 

I think we should keep the scheme going. There is always the chance that we will find a little gem who will go on to earn the club a nice transfer fee.

[David Holden]

Another point is that without the PASE scheme we would have been unable to field substitutes for some matches this season.

[Richard C]

Its a great Initiative for the community aswell. The community is what will bring the gates in and if we seem to be against the youth of Gravesend and not helping where we can it would in turn be a financial mistake. Michael Owen was probably found from a group of 1000's.

[Matt (GNFC)]

Michael Owen was pulled out of a crowd of 1000 etc etc but he was picked from a young age by Liverpool football club, not at the age of 17 by the likes of Southport. There's a massive difference here Richard. Football league scouts go around watching boys school matches which is when they get scouted and offered schoolboy forms..The rest a.la our PASE players are alredy deemed not good enough for that standard of football. While u can say that someone will slip through the net u could argue that all/most of the Northfleet players have at some point been linked to football league clubs as schoolboys, apprentices etc etc....I dont know if a club like Gravesend can achieve it but i believe we'd have more success if we could have a proper schoolboy setup. After all 15y old kids do command transfer compensation these days.

Personally i dont think it matters one iota to the community whether we have a PASE scheme or not...I supported Gravesend since i was 8 and im now 28. I played once in a boys league final at Stonebridge Road when i younger and thought it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I think the community would be more appreciative if we had a schoolboy ladder system from U11 through to U18. All the best players in Gravesend would want to play for Gravesend and Northfleet rather than a Real Gima etc etc...I know we have an under 10s team or something similar but doesnt it stop there?? Thats my thoughts anyway.

[David Holden]

Quote:

I dont know if a club like Gravesend can achieve it but i believe we'd have more success if we could have a proper schoolboy setup. After all 15y old kids do command transfer compensation these days.
Personally i dont think it matters one iota to the community whether we have a PASE scheme or not...I supported Gravesend since i was 8 and im now 28. I played once in a boys league final at Stonebridge Road when i younger and thought it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I think the community would be more appreciative if we had a schoolboy ladder system from U11 through to U18. All the best players in Gravesend would want to play for Gravesend and Northfleet rather than a Real Gima etc etc...I know we have an under 10s team or something similar but doesnt it stop there?? Thats my thoughts anyway.

You mean I spend all that time updating the youth pages and you haven't been there. For shame Matt <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

We do have teams all the way from (I think) Under 8 although only the older teams actually pass me information.

Have a look here Matt.

[Matt (GNFC)]

Im so full up on humble pie Dave! Good to see they are top of the league !!!!!! Shame on me forever...Im off on holiday Wednesday so ill go and hide for a week.

[Stu B]

They dont want to play for gima,they want to play for spartans, 3-1!into the cup final now......just me.I agree with the rest of your post though,we should definetly have lower age groups,and,unless im mistaken didnt we have one in the past but it is no longer?The problem i think is that these teams would be to good for the local leagues and would have to play in a kent league,an expensive thing but the POTENTIAL benefits cant be underestimated,its just whether we can afford the risk, i believe we should at least TRY.

[JimGNFC]

Does anyone know how the PASE Scheme works? I mean:

 

1) Are the PASE lads full time? i.e. is it like a YTS scheme where they get to play football a few days a week and then go to college the rest of the week?

 

In which case do the government subsidise the scheme or does the club finance the cost of the PASE setup?

 

I read in the Reporter that Adrian Pennock is coaching them a few days a week. In between this do they go to college or something?

 

2) In the longer term, if the club is looking to compete with those full-time clubs in the Conference but perhaps can't afford to go full-time then surely a full-time PASE youth set-up is the way to go?

 

A few promising full-time PASE lads blended with the likes of Duku etc may be enough for us to push for that second promotion spot in the Conference given time (ok I can dream!).

 

3) I do feel for the younger players in that some of them like Coyle and Carter will clearly be good enough to play at this level in time. On the other hand, Andy places his own head on the chopping block if he plays youngsters for a run of games and it doesn't pay off. Its the old catch 22 situation:

 

"You can't get a job without experience but you need a job to get the experience"

 

If we are safe before the season ends I'd like to see Carter and a few of the others given a few games in the Conference to see how they cope.

 

[Mepis]

All scheme's are good for the club be it PASE, youth team or reserves, it is vital for the club that it gets a chance to get hold of local players and take them on, there is always a chance that one or two will give a vital pay day to the club, Gravesend have no sugar daddy bank rolling the club so we have to run these scheme's, there has been some good local players come through at Gravesend, we have also lost a few, at least this gives us a chance for our future.

[kmj]

The chances of finding a star player of Premier League or even Division One standard that may have evaded the scouts of these clubs is quite remote. Perhaps it might occur once every 25 years or so. But that is no reason to abandon the PASE scheme, the primary reason for which must be to encourage locally talented players to join in the hope that they will make the grade at our level. Forget about earning huge transfer fees. If it ever happens then great, but concentrate on strengthening our squad first not someone elses.

[Mepis]

Quite agree, it is vital that home grown talent is found, unfortunatly if a good quality player comes along he is then sold or moves up a grade, thats the way it is and the way i suspect it always will be.

[mikef]

Quote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont know if a club like Gravesend can achieve it but i believe we'd have more success if we could have a proper schoolboy setup. After all 15y old kids do command transfer compensation these days.

Personally i dont think it matters one iota to the community whether we have a PASE scheme or not...I supported Gravesend since i was 8 and im now 28. I played once in a boys league final at Stonebridge Road when i younger and thought it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I think the community would be more appreciative if we had a schoolboy ladder system from U11 through to U18. All the best players in Gravesend would want to play for Gravesend and Northfleet rather than a Real Gima etc etc...I know we have an under 10s team or something similar but doesnt it stop there?? Thats my thoughts anyway.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Hi Matt

 

In reply to the above we have teams running from U8 - U18 + PASE + Reserve + First Team.

The U8's - U10's play in the Gravesham & District Primary Football League.

The U11's - U13's play in the Medway News Youth League.

The U14's - U18's play in the Kent Youth League.

 

Unfortunately i have to disagree with you in respect to "all the best players in Gravesend would want to play for Gravesend & Northfleet rather than a Real Gima etc". In our experience ( i speak only for the U13 team ) we had to start the season with only a bare 11 players as boys that we approached to play for us said that they would rather play for Cliff Woods Colts ( MNYL ), Long Lane ( Bexley League ) and Real Gima ( Gravesend Boys League ), we may also lose some players at the end of this season as the club insists that the U14 - U18 teams play in the Kent Youth League and some boys do not want to play in that League.

As to the question of PASE v Schoolboy setup, i would go for a schoolboy setup but thats something for for people higher up to decide on.

 

Regards

Mike F

[Matt (GNFC)]

Thanks for the info. Mike, was interesting to hear what u write. Perhaps we need some incentive to get these kids to play for Gravesend. Although, they may play for Gravesend do they get any chance to come and look around the ground, have a practice once every couple of months on the hallow turf for example?? All these could be simple little incentives. Of course, u know more than me though.

[yunggravesendian]

My friends will tell you its my new life objective to play competitively on the hallowed turf. For people like me who come down regularly to watch it would be a great incentive to join gravesend in the hope to progress through the system.

 

Unfortunately my dream may be slightly beyond me because of my skill, or lack of it, and my age means i probably won't improve enough in time.

 

However we need to get some of the younger kids of gravesend down to the road every saturday and get them interested and coming down regularly. Lets face it theres not alot else for them to do during a weekend in gravesend is there? Once there interested we can get them involved in some of the schemes at the club e.g. junior fleet, this way they'll probably want to come and watch more games as its cheaper to get in.

 

The more games they watch, hopefully the more they'll want to play. If my theory works they'll probably want to play for the club which the PASE scheme can provide. Getting them involved at this young age will hopefully allow them to improve there skills enough to become players for the club in the future.

[Wobbly Wayne rides again]

Is the Pase Passe or not ? thats the question....

 

I think that the area around G&N is often overlooked by scouts of the larger clubs.

I can only go back to my playing days, and this was the same time that Andy Hessenthaler was playing boys footie in the area.

There were many a talented footballer around , and yes a few trialled at the London clubs etc, but very few were selected. With the exception of Andy , I can't remember to many others ending up at local non league clubs. (Belatedly -Turner / Schweiso )

The majority ended up going down the girls/drink/drugs route and either drifted out the game or looked a pale shadow of themselves huffing and puffing around the local leagues.

Andy H , obviously received some great guidance , as from being a good ,( but not an over talented schoolboy player ) has made a very successful proffessional career.

 

Now thats a long time ago, and things have changed.

London clubs have spread their net further , and now have a lot more kids on their books.. But as a consequence of this, these clubs are disappointing more kids, as when the inevitable happens and the vast majority get discarded, this is when hopefully the G&N network can be around and offer the right individuals a way back into the game.

 

With the right guidance and effort there is no reason why we couldn't continually produce youngsters who can make the grade(By grade I don't mean Premiership class, but players who can earn a living from the game ). Adie Pennocks' appointment is a step in the right direction, but be patient these things don't happen overnight.

 

This has been a difficult season to blood yougsters, but once we establish ouselves in the conference it wil become much easier to speed uo the conveyor belt, from PASE - Reserves - First Team.

 

Keep up the good works , as like Alan Partridge probably would say, I believe that the kids are our future.

 

 

[Guest]

The pase scheme is a college scheme which is made up of 12 hours football training and 12 hours academic work. The scheme develops players with the intention of getting them into the first team/reserves. The course i dont think is of any real expense to the club as it is a FA backed scheme with adidas the main sponsors. There are three leagues in the country and our boys look set to win this year! The scheme has been going for three years, the first year they finished mid table, second year runners up by one point. This is showing the club and boys are developing within this setup. Gravesends pase setup is known throughout the leagues as one of the most proffessional outfits. The comment earlier about coyle throwing toys out the pram was harsh! If you look at the way he was treated it paints a different picture. The pase team done their bit by getting him in the first team setup, then i think he was too old and only played 4 games in a year! Is this the way to develop a youngster! I think a loan period was a bit more apprpriote rather than sitting on a bench with no match fitness. The reason why a lot more didnt come through was maybe due to the promotion and all but spackman, hockey and coyle were released. Wellings ex pase boys and fleets are all playing in the dr martins eastern division for various teams showing that the pase scheme is a valid way to develop youngsters into the non league game. It is right that most big clubs get the pick of the bunch but pase have had and do have players from charlton, gillingham, millwall and chelsea! As for the pase releases sittingbourne seem to have benefited from fleets coaching by signing hockey, spackman, mccann and coyle this year. Chatham town also have richardson, hewson and aaron burret.Thamesmead have got terry hawkey! some of the others are probably pottering about in pub football but it is nice to know that over half of the released are playing a good competitve level of non league footy week in week out. In my opinion pase scheme stands!!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Quote:

The pase scheme is a college scheme which is made up of 12 hours football training and 12 hours academic work.

No wonder none of them make it into the first team they must be totally knackered........they've all buggered off to Sittingbourne to get some sleep.

[Jessica]

I think the scheme should continue, its a good scheme, but I think the players should be told exactly how is it from the start, agreed Jamie Coyle did do very weel and all credit to him, the coaches, his family for supporting him, and I am sure transporting him around the county. but being realistic, I think he was fortunate to play in 5 Conference games this season, and if you want to be treated as a grown up, when it comes to playing then you have to act like a grown up when decisions are made that you do not especially like or agree with. But being difficult and coming across with attitude is not a good career move whatever your line of business.

 

I wish Jamie every success, in whatever he decides

to do.

[Andy Y. (G&NFC)]

Spot on Jessica!

 

The important thing to note is that the PASE boys seem to enjoy it and it is benefiting both us and the Community in that G&NFC is being advertised by these youngsters in the College where they are gaining a useful qualification.

 

I spent some time talking to one or two of the PASE lads at the Northwood match and they have a very positive attitude, so its a good thing in my book. Plus it also provides a number of youngsters for my Daughter to drool over!