Video Clips. Goodnight from me.

[Graham S]

This will be the last motley collection from me. Roly Edwards told me at half time that the club have had letters of complaint from Conference TV &, I believe, Sky. He didn't tell me outright to stop posting the videos, acknowledging that this is a forum unconnected with the club officially. However, I sit in the centre stand right behind the directors, so if I continue & they don't stop me, they are knowingly allowing what is being complained about & I'm not going to embarrass the club.

 

It would be easy enough to hide in a more anonymous part of the crowd & get better views of the goals, but I sit where I do because I have sat there for decades with my late dad & my mum & my father in law who still go. I will probably continue to take clips but they will not be posted publicly, which is where the problem lies, I believe.

 

Frankly, after The Cameraman's postings on here a few weeks ago, I am surprised that Conference TV feel the need to stop what I & others at other clubs do. The quality of my clips is far below what they offer. In fact I have 2 full year subscriptions with them myself.

 

Personally, I thought it was a great win today. The Morecambe supporter Gary quotes must keep his objectivity with his brain, which is obviously housed securely within his rectum. 2 sides playing attacking passing football during the 1st half & a 2nd half in which we did to Morecambe what we did here against Oxford & Grays - pushed right up, upped the passing tempo & totally took away their ability to get into the game as meaningfully as they had before.

 

Having looked at it frame by frame, I think the penalty was a definite - tackle came in from behind Charlie & took him out; ref was perfectly placed & their player only has himself to blame.

 

My usual rubbish cameraman standards for their equalizer & our winner, I'm afraid. Wished I'd caught the booking for diving against their player in the 1st half.

 

Anyway, enough waffle. Here are the clips:

 

Charlie brought down from behind

 

1-0. Charlie from the spot

 

Morecambe equalize. Rubbish camera work.

 

We survive dangerous 1st half moment

 

2-1. Joel caps a fine display. Rubbish filming by me, though.

 

Sacha clears rare 2nd half danger

 

We used to do this - never worked for us, either.

 

Cheers

 

Graham S

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Cameraman]

Hi Graham.

Just to expand on this somewhat.

 

Sorry that myself, Conference TV, Sky and the club have had to spoil your fun a bit, but this has really all come about because of what happened at the AFC Wimbledon game.

As you may or may not know, AFC Wimbledon have a group of supporters running their own website ( DonsOnline ) on which they post unofficial footage of virtually the whole match just a few hours after the game finishes for everyone to watch totally free of charge.

The DonsOnline cameraman does this for every Home and Away game by 'smuggling' a palmcorder and a monopod into grounds without permission and filming from amongst the crowd from as near to the half-way line as he can get.

This free online footage is filmed competently enough to result in AFC Wimbledon's official club cameraman no longer being able to sell copies of match DVD's in their club shop, thereby denying the club sales revenue. In addition to that, it is also reckoned that DonsOnline's activities are one of the main reasons for a large reduction in AFC Wimbledon's attendances this season, particularly at Away matches.

DonsOnline tried to film the Trophy game on the 13th Jan without permission but we got the stewards to stop them just before the kick-off.

 

Nothing against you personally, but it would just be double standards if we carried on allowing you to do more or less the same thing.

 

I'm not suggesting that your video clips will stop people attending matches, but there is definitely a danger that they will stop people subscribing to Conference TV.

I wonder if anyone will come on here and admit they have done that ?

You say 'rubbish camera work', but you got a really good shot of the Charlie Mac penalty incident...so no need for people to look at my footage on Conference TV later in the week then ?

 

If you look at this from my point of view (and all the other club cameramen who rely on payment from Conference TV and the clubs to keep themselves in business), if Conference TV have to pack up because nobody wants to subscribe to them any more as a result of watching supporters' free video clips, then I would have to charge the club more to have their matches filmed professionally. If the club couldn't afford to do that and had to use footage from an amateur cameraman with a mobile phone, I don't think Liam Daish would be very happy.

 

Graham, you say that other clubs supporters are doing what you do, and you are right.

In Conference South and the Leagues below it is 'allowed' to some extent as there are no TV or Internet deals.

However, Conference TV are getting quite annoyed about Conference National clips being shown on website Forums and also such things as their footage being copied off a computer screen and shown on YouTube...which is a blatant infringement of copyright. I believe they are now taking action on this sort of thing.

That'll have one well-known regular G & N Forum poster hurriedly deleting a recent posting I bet !?

 

I notice that Graham's footnote is 'I only do it for the adulation'.

Fair enough, that's the same as the DonsOnline people, but this isn't a Micky Mouse League that G & N are in. It's a professional set-up and there are copyright issues.

 

Personally, I haven't got a problem with supporters using their mobile phone cameras to film matches if they are doing it for their own personal use to watch at home.

Also, I'm sure some of Graham's earlier clips (last season ?) were filmed from behind the goal and were just brief shots of a goal going in and the supporters around him jumping up and down. That is the sort of thing you normally see on YouTube in 352 x 288 pixel WMV format and I haven't got a problem with clips like that being posted on here.

 

Basically Graham, you are just getting too good mate !

Your full-size screen and use of AVI files instead of WMV is obviously better to watch than Conference TV, even though you admit your camerawork is dodgy.

 

I have a question for G & N supporters.

If I did an end-of-season compilation DVD to sell in the Club Shop (Trust Hut) which would be much better quality than Graham's clips or the WMV file size shown on Conference TV, would you still buy a copy (thereby earning the club some revenue) if Graham continued to post his footage on here of all the goals...or from what you have seen of his clips already ?

In most cases I would suspect 'yes', but I bet there would be a sizeable minority who wouldn't bother.

 

That's what concerns me most of all about this.

[1 F in Fleet]

Cameraman ... your dvd would be the most requested item in the club shop ... if it included us winning the play off final !

PS Hope graham s picked up on your posting guide clues !

 

[Alan W (GNFC)]

Cameraman,

 

Just one query with Conference Football.tv - why can we not have slow motion replays of some incidents? Last year, even though it wasnt formally offered, you could play clips slow motion on your PC to look at incidents such as the penalty Charlie won yesterday - that facility now doesnt work as far as I know?

[Graham S]

Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. I understand your position & don't have any issue with any of it except for 2 things:

 

1. I cannot take credit for the earlier videos taken from behind the goal - not me. Mine have always been taken from the centre stand.

 

2. The claim in my signature that I only do it for the adulation is not serious, rather an ironic response to the quote from the "professional northerner" which precedes it!

 

Do your compilation dvd. I will gladly buy it.

 

PS I could do my clips in smaller size & lower resolution but I still think this might be pushing the relationship between the club, you & myself. Probably best if I just do them for myself, friends & family.

 

Cheers

 

Graham S

 

[Harry J Allstars]

Cameraman if the goals are not available on Conference football.tv would Graham be allowed to post them on here? If so any chance of the Goal v Weymouth being shown?

 

Also conference footy.tv has some early/pre season interviews with the manager and some of the players, Ross Smith, Stacey Long, Mark De Bolla are all on there, if I went to them and asked them the same questions thus meaning I didn't have to register to conference to watch the Interviews would that mean I was breaking the law? Ignore me, I'm just being pedantic.

 

I posted that clip of Luke Moores goal v Exeter because it was such a good goal and I wanted to give the chance to those that were unable to be there to watch the goal. Luke Moore is a local lad who has come up through the youth team so I thought I'd give the good people that view this forum the chance to watch it. Of course if Conference footy.tv see that as me being evil and in sin then I guess I'll have to remove it. God I'm such a criminal, I don't know how I sleep at night.

 

I appreciate you coming on here talking to us, your clips are fantastic and yes if a end of season dvd were to become available then I would purchase one, I believe talks are in the pipeline.

[jc]

Thanks very much for your sterling (camera)work over the years, Graham.

 

Can't agree with you on our penalty though - I felt at the time that Bentley got a toe on the ball, and the video clip has done nothing to change my mind.

[mikefleet]

i would buy a DVD, about time i would say we had 1.

[The Cameraman]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Much appreciated.

 

Firstly, I don't actually work for the company that produces Conference TV.

I only supply them with the footage. They do all the editing, narration and production themselves, so I can't answer why they don't show slow-mos.

 

Regarding Graham's clips, as I say, I have no problem with him continuing to film matches on his mobile phone (or whatever it is he uses) for his own personal use as long as he stops posting them online.

If Graham started producing and selling DVD's of his footage instead, that would also be in breach of copyright as well.

If Roly or any other club officials want to stop him filming altogether, that's up to them.

 

However, if I do an end-of-season DVD, I could actually include some of Graham's footage on that if he wants !

If he captures something from a better angle over there than I managed to get from the gantry (and saves it in AVI file format), it might be quite useful.

 

I think the main thing we all need to think about here is how to raise money for the club.

The less people that see the goals on posted video clips, the more people would buy a compliation DVD surely ?

 

This is why I can't understand what DonsOnline are doing. It doesn't seem to occur to them that they are 'screwing' (for want of a better word) their own club by showing it all free of charge.

As AFC Wimbledon are not on Conference TV, they should be using their official club cameraman's footage and charging supporters to watch highlights of their matches it on their official website.

In fact there's nothing to stop G & N doing that for F.A. Trophy matches (as far as I am aware).

[Hirsty]

God preserve us !!

 

I cannot believe what I am reading here !!

 

Another nail in the coffin of free speech ( or the video equivalent !)

 

With all due respect to Graham, the clips are hardly of Oscar winning standard are they ?

 

I predict a riot. It's about time the "small" man rebelled !

 

Bring back Wat Tyler....bring back John Lilburne...

 

Let's kick the a*se of the repressors ! Free speech ? Free speech my a*se !!

 

Regards,

 

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: Harry J Allstars

Cameraman if the goals are not available on Conference football.tv would Graham be allowed to post them on here? If so any chance of the Goal v Weymouth being shown?

That would be Conference TV's decision not mine, but I would say if there was no official cameraman present, then no problem.
You may remember that I missed the Home match against Kidderminster because of illness and nobody filmed the game from the gantry.
Did Graham let Liam borrow his mobile phone ?

Originally Posted By: Harry J Allstars

I posted that clip of Luke Moores goal v Exeter because it was such a good goal and I wanted to give the chance to those that were unable to be there to watch the goal. Luke Moore is a local lad who has come up through the youth team so I thought I'd give the good people that view this forum the chance to watch it. Of course if Conference footy.tv see that as me being evil and in sin then I guess I'll have to remove it. God I'm such a criminal, I don't know how I sleep at night.

Disagree with you here I'm afraid.

Why can't people watch it on Conference TV or buy an end-of-season DVD instead ?
In fact, if I was the Exeter cameraman, I would have contacted the G & N club shop and asked them if they wanted to place an order for fully edited & produced Match DVD's to sell to supporters at the next home game.

Harry, you are not 'evil' or a 'criminal'.
Just think more of 'profit for the club'.

[Hempstead Gaz]

But from Cameraman's point of view, it's his job -it pays his mortgage etc,etc and isn't just a bit of fun.

Whilst cameraman doesn't appear to have a major problem with Graham is the quality is reduced, I'm sure the Conference would come down on the club like a ton of bricks for condoning it.

As he said, we are in a big boys league, fully professional, not tinpot southern/Rymans league any more.

[Graham S]

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

If Graham started producing and selling DVD's of his footage instead, that would also be in breach of copyright as well.
If Roly or any other club officials want to stop him filming altogether, that's up to them.

However, if I do an end-of-season DVD, I could actually include some of Graham's footage on that if he wants !
If he captures something from a better angle over there than I managed to get from the gantry (and saves it in AVI file format), it might be quite useful.

I have no intention of ever charging for my clips. It is my belief, from what Roly said, that I will be allowed to continue filming & that there is no problem as long as they are not posted publicly or made generally available. I have no wish to compromise somebody's legitimate livelihood with my very variable offerings.

Mr Cameraman, please pm me if you want to check if I have particular shots, where I've actually caught the action & got it in sharp focus. You are welcome to use anything I have. If you are unable to film particular games for some reason, would there be any complaint if I were to post clips of those? Perhaps you could pm me whenever that occurred too if it was ok?

Cheers

PS I don't have a mobile phone up to producing videos, even of my quality. I use a Canon Ixus 900 and modify the format with Roxio 9

[Harry J Allstars]

My posting that goal may have worked in favour of the club. People will have seen that and thought about other fantastic goals that we have scored this season, step up Mark De Bolla and Danny Slatter and purchased the DVD.

 

I see what you're saying though, me putting it on there means people that want to see it for free and not register to see it can do so and thus won't register meaning you lose out. If my earnings were cut through something similar then I would also be pretty pissed off.

 

All this does seem a bit silly though. What if a memeber of the players family filmed something and put it up here only to be told to take it down. Could the player then say 'well its footage of me so I decide where it goes', not saying any player should do this but with the "sue em" society that we currently live in it's one that you could see happening.

 

In an ideal world we'd all have somewhere to view the clips, perhaps on sky sports in the week after the game just to quench our thirst and then at the end of the season the DVD would come out and we'd all buy it rewarding you for your very hard work.

 

Got a feeling we won't have this problem when we're in the Premiership or Champions League.

[Stu M]

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

The less people that see the goals on posted video clips, the more people would buy a compliation DVD surely ?

Speaking just for myself, I'd disagree. Graham's are good clips to review in the immediate aftermath of a game, but viewing them wouldn't stop me buying a professionally presented and edited DVD with all the goals on. To actually achieve the same with Graham's stuff, you'd have to download his clips yourself and assuming they're TV quality, which I'm supposing they're not, edit them yourself and burn a DVD yourself.

Most fans would want a DVD as souvenir and a keepsake and I doubt those that have viewed Graham's clips would reject the chance to buy a compilation DVD on that basis alone.

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: Graham S

If you are unable to film particular games for some reason, would there be any complaint if I were to post clips of those? Perhaps you could pm me whenever that occurred too if it was ok?

As I said in another reply, I have no objections personally to you posting clips of any matches that I am unable to film, but I don't know what the stance of the club, Conference TV and the Conference themselves is on that.

Basically I would say if there is nobody up in the gantry then that means nobody is filming the match officially so there wouldn't be a problem
...but we are only talking about Home games here.

If you go to Away games, film them and post clips on the Internet, you would get into even more trouble.

[The Cameraman]

Originally Posted By: Harry J Allstars

In an ideal world we'd all have somewhere to view the clips, perhaps on sky sports in the week after the game just to quench our thirst and then at the end of the season the DVD would come out and we'd all buy it rewarding you for your very hard work.

You have got somewhere to view the clips...on Conference TV !
I would say that's a good taster for an end-of-season DVD because although it shows all the highlights it is not a good picture quality. A DVD of the same action (and a bit more) will be ten times better quality.

O.K., you could say not everybody has got a computer, but then not everybody has got Sky Sports. Don't forget you have to pay to watch Sky Sports as well.

If you are talking about watching some 'preview' clips for free (as Graham has 'sort of' been providing), yes, Conference TV probably made a mistake by showing everything free in the first place before they found out they didn't have enough sponsors and couldn't afford to pay the cameramen, editors and narrators unless they started charging the punters a yearly fee.

[EUFC FAN]

Originally Posted By: The Cameraman

If Graham started producing and selling DVD's of his footage instead, that would also be in breach of copyright as well.

I am confused. If Graham shot the material on his own equipment then he owns the copyright on it? Or are the players images owned by the club, conference TV et all?

For example I own a Nikon D200 camera and a supertelephoto lens. If I bought it to a match and took a few photos for my own viewing pleasure (i.e. never put them on the web). Would this be okay? I am guessing not!

[David Holden]

You now need a license from the Conference to take photographs at Conference matches.

[Harry J Allstars]

This would be okay as long as you didn't make money/profit out of them or made them available for public viewing.

 

Last season the guy with "We 8 Canvey" on the back of his shirt was taking a photo on his phone of a pigeon away at Canvey. A jobsworth steward asked him to put his phone away as it was a breach of copywrite.