Tilbury

[YELLOW]

I missed that as I was in the bar. Actually missed their equalising goal. Several of our fans who returned to the match from the bar after me still thought we were 1-0 up!!!!

[and1inthetree]

did tilbury have to play on a different pitch then?

 

they're a very tough and physical side to break down. playing attractive passing football on their 'pitch' is not usually the way forward. the ball is more predictable when its in the air.

 

with crossy, i think he plays the crowd to perfection. you direct all your energy into abusing him, rather than abusing his players or getting behind your team. he wins. that's not to say that i haven't been sucked into it before - as mentioned earlier in the thread, when tilbury equalised against us last season, he vaulted the fence and jumped into the hx crowd celebrating the goal.

 

keep going canvey - you're by far the best footballing side i've seen hornchurch play this season.

 

[YELLOW]

Have to agree he is a character but he seems to wind alot of people up!!

[Sharming Paula]

Originally Posted By: and1inthetree

keep going canvey - you're by far the best footballing side i've seen hornchurch play this season.

We'll take that as a compliment Tree Boy.
Cheers!!

[Ribbit]

I'm not sure kicking the ball in the air was any more predictable than playing on the ground - the wind was making that very hard. We had our own inadequecies to blame for our loss. Tilbury weren't brilliant, but they did what they needed to do.

[YELLOW]

I think when we went 1-0 up we should have just forgotten about trying to play any decent football and just scrapped it out.

 

What makes it worse is I feel we threw away a winning advantage. When you get a lead in those conditions you really need to hold on to it.

 

Knew it was all going to go wrong when Dave Kreyling missed that chance just before they scored their winner.

 

This will be my lost post of 2006 so happy new year one and all!!!

[Sharming Paula]

Happy New Year Yellow (and all the othe Canvey fans and personnel)

[Ribbit]

I thought it was Curran that missed that chance...

[yellow angel]

Originally Posted By: Ribbit

I like Lee Jay, but his passing has been a bit off the last two games. I don't think anyone can question his skill though. I heard Glen saying as we left that Lee Jay had no place out there yesterday and Batchy should have known that Lee wouldn't be able to 'play' on that surface. I think he was right, but I don't know that starting Corbell (his replacement) would have been a better option.

I'm glad I don't have to position our midfield, 'cause I don't know how I'd arrange Leon, Ryan, Clyde and Lee.

the playing conditions were atrocious. definitely not to suit the likes of Lee Jay or Steve Corbell.
both like to play the neat passing game, very difficult when conditions only allow the ball to roll a few feet!
Tilbury showed the way with a more direct approach.
I think we have to bear in mind that all those involved are on a learning curve. John and Gary will analyse the last two games and draw the necessary conclusions.
the lads have come a long way in a short time, this has understandably raised the expectations of the fans. to be honest although disappointed that we lost yesterday, i am delighted with the way the team is developing.
Oh, and i think we certainly missed Kevin yesterday. anyone one know when he is likely to be back?
Anyway,
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL......

[The Great Eckscape]

Originally Posted By: Matt CIFC

Originally Posted By: Ribbit

I heard Glen saying as we left that Lee Jay had no place out there yesterday and Batchy should have known that Lee wouldn't be able to 'play' on that surface. I think he was right, but I don't know that starting Corbell (his replacement) would have been a better option.

Glen's comments were directed toward myself, however I disagree with him. Yesterday's conditions would've been the best oppertunity to use width and pace on the 'pitch'. There was no grass in the middle, so to play the ball along the floor as Canvey does, begged for it to be pushed out wide.

The problem was, while Leon was doing it quite effectively in the first half, Lee Jay was totally the opposite in the second. His problem was that he was going left to right, not forward. Bourne would overlap and scream for the ball, to be pushed forward but Lee was just not acknowleding and countless oppetunities were lost. I'm trying to be constructive but I saw it yesterday, against Hornchurch and against Enfield too and I know I'm not on my own here.

Hmm, think I've been take a bit out of context there fellas!

What I said was that when you look at the pitch and weather, and consider that we weren't exactly playing a "footballing" side, I don't think Lee Jay should have started. I would have preferred Corbell as he has a greater ability to whip in a cross from a deeper position. Lee relies more on reaching the touchline and crossing, meaning more ground would have to be made up. However, I know that Steve Corbell isn't 100% fit yet, so maybe he wasn't ready for a start. On a decent pitch, both of these players frighten the life out of the oppostion right back, especially with Chris overlapping.

I'll have to rant in sign language next time...

[cangull]

While we are on the subject,I have to agree with Matt on this one and to say that Lee Jay has not impressed me these last few games, more like exasperated me. Seems he isnt interested in getting stuck in and in fact seems to be hanging off the play. From a player who early season I totally rated top drawer to now a player who,for me,looks withdrawn and not interested, consistently out of position and only proactive a few times during the course of a game.

Sorry to name a player, but that is how I view the current problem, perhaps he needs a rest to get his head into gear!!

[CIFC - Y.A]

I was wondering how long it'd take people to realise Lee Jay's lack of enthusiasm recently.

 

Shame, really, as when he tries, he can be a bloody good player.

 

Seems like he can never be bothered to get the ball back for himself and stands back and waits for it to go to his feet.

 

Shame, really.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted By: The Great Eckscape

Hmm, think I've been take a bit out of context there fellas!

What I said was that when you look at the pitch and weather, and consider that we weren't exactly playing a "footballing" side, I don't think Lee Jay should have started. I would have preferred Corbell as he has a greater ability to whip in a cross from a deeper position. Lee relies more on reaching the touchline and crossing, meaning more ground would have to be made up. However, I know that Steve Corbell isn't 100% fit yet, so maybe he wasn't ready for a start. On a decent pitch, both of these players frighten the life out of the oppostion right back, especially with Chris overlapping.

I'll have to rant in sign language next time...

Sorry Glen, I knew what you meant, even if I my post didn't allude to such.

[Out_Of_Towner]

Supprised that you boys lost to them . Still it does us a favour . Keep it up.

[A Non E Mouse]

I agree with Yellow Angel - always agree with a woman....

 

The management and players are still learning and they now need to think long and hard on how to approach this type of game in the future. I previously suggested a more direct game and I stick by that. I think we can still play football but it's not going to be building up from the back with pretty one, two's when players are within a few feet of each other.

 

I think we need to be a bit careful at singling out players and giving them the wrong ideas. Lee Jay has superb first touch qualities and skills - possibly the best in our squad. However, he needs to work on his positioning as he constantly drifts - I'm sure the management will be working on this aspect of his game. He has the turn of pace and has scared many a defender when he runs at them - I don't think I'd like to see him plying his trade against us. He frustrates fans, me included, like certain other players in the past because he is not physical - it just doesn't seem to be a strong part of his game. He won't go for those crunch tackles or headers but he does contribute a great deal to the squad. I particularly noticed his positioning against Potters Bar where the little number 7 wing back had loads of room in front of him to push forward as Lee Jay had moved more centrally. In his defence the majority of service came from that side of the field as Leon has looked very out of sorts playing on the other wing. The Tilbury game was more of a reversal where more service seemed to come from Leon and Crow on the opposite side. Leon Gordon coped far better with the [****!!****] conditions. I genuinely felt that Tilbury and those conditions were not suited to Lee Jays stle of play.

 

I think Hornchurch have found that right mix of playing football but with a more direct approach - and thats why they are top. We just need to adapt to the conditions and perhaps change the squad and tactics to suit - but I'm sure we will get it right although it may be a touch frustrating along the way.

[YELLOW]

To be honest I thought up until the Enfield game, Lee Jay was superb. I thought he was excellent against Redbridge and Enfield Town when we were under the cosh a bit and lead most of our counter attacks.

 

He's been a bit subdued the last couple of games but so has Leon to some extent. He'll learn. Give him time and the support he needs.

[pabird]

For once I appear to have seen a different game to most at the Tilbury pleasure beach.

Certainly Tilbury across their eleven played harder than the average across our eleven and they deserved something from the game.

For us the problem was getting the ball to stick up front and not in the mud.

Our left winger (again) spent most of the game at the old inside-left position depriving us of both width and pressure on their back line, our right winger is simply not a right winger but is the best we have at holding up the ball from a central striker position, therefore no pressure on their back four from our wings unless applied by our full backs.

The pitch made it difficult to bang the ball first time out of defence when players found their standing foot sliding away from them creating all sorts of problems in the clearance, This was the same for the opposition but we failed to apply pressure with our two CFs having a day off and never assisting our defence by winning the ball or when given the ball managing to hold the damn thing longer than a bar of slippery soap. They may be willing but their football education is woefully short.The only real pressure we applied came from our two full backs mostly in the first half down the left and down the right in the second half.

Our normally active central mid-field being bogged down (in the mud) and unusually ineffective we were left with having to work our two full backs to the limit and in those conditions they could not possibly achieve a win on their own.

When adding the loss of our strongest and most experience defender before the game we really were attempting to win the game with very few effective players and need to admit that our 5 or 6 players committed to a result were eventually overcome by an eleven lesser skilled but fully committed Tilbury.

 

[Merv]

I have to be careful here because if I keep agreeing with Pabird in just about everything he says, some people will think that we are engaged! We did seem to lack width and IMO we have someone out on the right who should be in the middle where his strength and bustle would help us enormously (I think Matt said the same thing) and out on the left we have… we have… well, we have very little. At just about every game I hear someone disagree with my comments about Lee Jay and they say that, ‘…although he didn’t do very well today, he is usually a great player.’ Problem is ‘today’ has been every game so far. Perhaps he is a great player who hasn’t achieved his full potential yet, but hang on a minute, we’re half way through the season!!!

 

There are times when route one, down the middle, is very effective and we do it well, but there are times, especially when the tide appears to be coming in, when we have to go wide in order to use the grass and avoid the puddles. Thank goodness we have a couple of ‘full backs’ who have the ability/desire/strength to overlap and give us at least some semblance of width.

 

One tiny, other gripe. Please John and Britts, get them to do some practice on throw-ins. It has now become embarrassing when, with every single throw-in we get, nobody is prepared to move, no training ground tactic is used and no variation is employed. We throw it on and then immediately lose it. The old CIFC did just as badly, even in the conference.

 

Moan over! Niggles apart, isn’t it great that we are thinking play-offs when, just a few months ago, the question on this discussion board was whether we would be able to hold our position. John and Gary, the team, the Yellow Army, the ground staff and even the bar staff (booze and burger) have demonstrated so well that we are not only good enough for this league, we are even better. Happy New Year to you all.

 

[pabird]

I have to be careful here because if I keep agreeing with Pabird in just about everything he says, some people will think that we are engaged!

 

Merv the possibility of us being in disagreement in the future brings to mind the words God and little green apples.

 

In adding to previous comment reference the Tilbury game some of the younger lads may have lost (early) heart due to not coming to terms with the conditions due to lack of education.

 

The pitch was particularly slippery underfoot which determined defenders had serious problems clearing first time, turning back to face their own goal or making any abrupt change of direction.

Our defenders came to terms with the conditions but their defenders were never tested, as you needed to get the ball in behind them and force the abrupt change in direction. For the forwards running on to the ball behind the defence no such problems existed.

By not going down the flanks our mid-fielders were giving themselves the problem of changing direction and not the opposing defenders.

The mid-field central players had to turn inwards when no wide player was available.

The clearest evidence of the defenders problems were demonstrated by Crow going forward selling more dummies than mothercare and getting past defenders, under normal conditions not his usual first level skills.

 

Ill stop now as it all sounds a bit boring,

 

[thomarocky]

Just a couple of quick points, Lee Jay is a potentially class player but has a lot to learn as he is only young and new to senior football, we all want him to succeed at Canvey. Secondly I agree with the comment about the throw-ins, with both lack of movement and a few occasions when we have made foul throw-ins which are really unforgiveable at anything above kids league football.