Kelvin MacKenzie petition

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Simple this. The BBC have given former editor of The Sun Kelvin MacKenzie a spot on radio 5 live this christmas day presenting a "review of the year". Why is that outrageous? Well Kelvin Mackenzie was the editor that commissioned the garbage on the front cover of The Sun the day after the Hillsborough disaster, the same Kelvin MacKenzie who made a public apology for his actions years later only to then publicly state he only said sorry because Rupert Murdoch put him up to it.

 

What the BBC thinks they're doing giving this man airtime is anyones guess.

 

Wikpredia article on MacKenzie Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie

 

Archived Ic Liverpool article here: http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...-name_page.html

 

Online pettion here: http://www.petitiononline.com/rawk1/petition.html

 

Hosted at Liverpool fc forum red and white kop: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/

 

 

I've signed, without hesiitation.

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ban.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applaus.gif" alt="" />

[Hammerman]

Just signed up as well. I'm not a liverpool fan but his comments were in very poor taste.

All football supporters should sign up!

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Hammerman said:
Just signed up as well. I'm not a liverpool fan but his comments were in very poor taste.
All football supporters should sign up!

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What he said.

He're a quote from the Wikpedia which should be informative: "During an after-dinner speech to Mincoffs Solicitors LLP (a Newcastle-based law firm) on 30 November 2006, MacKenzie is reported to have said about the coverage of the Hillsborough disaster: "All I did wrong there was tell the truth. There was a surge of Liverpool fans who had been drinking and that is what caused the disaster. The only thing different we did was put it under the headline 'The Truth'. I went on The World at One the next day and apologised. I only did that because Rupert Murdoch told me to. I wasn't sorry then and I'm not sorry now because we told the truth". MacKenzie went on to compare Merseysiders with animal rights activists. Ironically, MacKenzie is also said to have remarked, "If this got out, it would blow up all over again". The remarks were met with widespread incredulity and condemnation, particularly on Merseyside, where Liverpool F.C., the local Liverpool Echo and numerous local MP's condemned MacKenzie, with Walton MP Peter Kilfoyle arguing that the quotes confirmed that MacKenzie was never "fit to edit a national newspaper". The Liverpool Echo called for The Sun to sack MacKenzie as a columnist. The Sun issued a statement saying that they had "already apologised for what happened and we stand by that apology." There has been no word on MacKenzie's future at the paper and no statement from MacKenzie himself has thus far been forthcoming".

[DECORUM]

I dont understand why this man (whoever he is) should be prevented from expressing his opinion on any subject. We do still have some freedom of speech here in England I think. You do not have to listen to his broadcast, after all. Why his opinion on a crowd control disaster ten years ago should prevent him from broadcasting today completely escapes me.

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DECORUM said:
I dont understand why this man (whoever he is) should be prevented from expressing his opinion on any subject. We do still have some freedom of speech here in England I think. You do not have to listen to his broadcast, after all. Why his opinion on a crowd control disaster ten years ago should prevent him from broadcasting today completely escapes me.

Are you serious? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bootyshake.gif" alt="" />

[DECORUM]

I am serious, yes, but if you consider this serious, what is the point of the cartoon bottom icon?

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DECORUM said:
I dont understand why this man (whoever he is) should be prevented from expressing his opinion on any subject. We do still have some freedom of speech here in England I think. You do not have to listen to his broadcast, after all. Why his opinion on a crowd control disaster ten years ago should prevent him from broadcasting today completely escapes me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie

At least do some basic research before you post such stupid questions.

[DECORUM]

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zoom said:

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DECORUM said:
I dont understand why this man (whoever he is) should be prevented from expressing his opinion on any subject. We do still have some freedom of speech here in England I think. You do not have to listen to his broadcast, after all. Why his opinion on a crowd control disaster ten years ago should prevent him from broadcasting today completely escapes me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie

At least do some basic research before you post such stupid questions.

Yes, I read this article and the others you kindly referenced before making any comment, and it was on the basis of these that I formed my original opinion. Now, I wouldn't be so impertinent to call you stupid, but why should we demand someone is banned just because we dont like what he says or has said? I dont care what this Kevin KcKenzie person says about anything, but I do care about his right to say it. In the same way, you have a right to ask people to support a petition, but I have an equal right to state my opposition without being called stupid or having juvenile bottom cartoons directed at me. People are not stupid or deserving of bans from radio just because they say things you disagree with. If you are going to start a debate in a public forum then you must respect the views of others in the same way you would like your own to be respected. But of course,if you did that, there would be no need for a petition, would there?

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DECORUM said:

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zoom said:

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DECORUM said:
I dont understand why this man (whoever he is) should be prevented from expressing his opinion on any subject. We do still have some freedom of speech here in England I think. You do not have to listen to his broadcast, after all. Why his opinion on a crowd control disaster ten years ago should prevent him from broadcasting today completely escapes me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_MacKenzie

At least do some basic research before you post such stupid questions.

Yes, I read this article and the others you kindly referenced before making any comment, and it was on the basis of these that I formed my original opinion. Now, I wouldn't be so impertinent to call you stupid, but why should we demand someone is banned just because we dont like what he says or has said? I dont care what this Kevin KcKenzie person says about anything, but I do care about his right to say it. In the same way, you have a right to ask people to support a petition, but I have an equal right to state my opposition without being called stupid or having juvenile bottom cartoons directed at me. People are not stupid or deserving of bans from radio just because they say things you disagree with. If you are going to start a debate in a public forum then you must respect the views of others in the same way you would like your own to be respected. But of course,if you did that, there would be no need for a petition, would there?

No you are just plain stupid. Mr MacKenzie made some wild, inappropriate and most importantly false allegations regarding the behaviour of Liverpool fans at Hillsborough that day. He was roundly condemned both at the time and whereas other Papers who published similar tripe made full next day apologies (for example the Daily Star), MacKenzie made no such apology either personally or in his capacity as editor-in-chief of The Sun newspaper.

Why this is relevant now, and is an issue NOW is that last month Mackenzie made a speech to 100 or so buisness leaders stating that he was right to publish such claims then and that he stands by them now. If that wasn't bad enough Mackenzie also commented that Rupert Murdoch had ordered him to apologise for his actions notably on Radio fours today programme, and that had Murdoch not made him do so he would not have made any apology. In simple plain English MacKenzie has stuck two fingers up to the victims and families of the Hillsborough disaster, football fans and the public at large.

If you think an individual who is a liar, and who has shown such a lack of judgement and morality is a suitable candidate to appear on a publicly funded broadcaster let alone present on christmas day, then you sir are a fool. Simple as that. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/argue.gif" alt="" />

And don't reply with some crap about rights of speech and the like. What rights do the 96 people who died that day have? Dead people who according to the comic MacKenzie was in charge of, had their pockets picked by felow scousers before their bodies were even cold.

Both he and you make me sick to the pit of my stomach.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yeahthat.gif" alt="" />

[SiD of WEFC]

This is not a simple situation, and it is not helped by exchanges of personal abuse.

 

MacKenzie has presumably been hired on the basis of his celebrity as a journalist. Journalists as a profession should be committed to broadcasting the truth, but MacKenzie has shown that he is prepared to print anything - truth, speculation or outright lie - which will generate controversy and thus increase his circulation and raise his own profile. A lot of people have been genuinely offended by his comments on Hillsborough, and the purpose of this petition is to let the BBC know that thousands of us will be boycotting their flagship show if MacKenzie is involved. If the BBC then decide to keep him on and broadcast to an audience of three Nazis and a dog, that is their problem.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as 'freedom of speech'. Like 'innocent until proved guilty', it is a glib generalisation not a legal fact (If you don't believe me, discuss it with anybody in prison on remand).

In many European countries, for example, it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. In this country, it is an offence to incite racial hatred. Nobody here is atacking MacKenzie's right to say what he wants: we are simply advertising our intention to exercise our right of listening to somebody else.

 

Please cut out the personal abuse and then this thread can revert to the serious discussion it should be.

 

SiD <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

[Windsor_Sec]

Sid, how can it be a serious discussion when people are not entitled to an opinion?

 

More to the point, who in their right mind would be listening to a review of the year on Radio Five Live on Christmas Day anyway ?

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Windsor_Sec said:
Sid, how can it be a serious discussion when people are not entitled to an opinion?

More to the point, who in their right mind would be listening to a review of the year on Radio Five Live on Christmas Day anyway ?

I wouldn't say people Mr Decorum isn't entitled to his/her opinion.

This doesn't strike me though as being an issue that could be described as a "grey area". We know MacKenzie is a Liar because he's told us he's a Liar. Slightly ironic that without the "free speach" Mr/Ms Decorum speaks off we would not have got to fully appreciate what an odious litle turd the man really is.

As for Radio 5 Live, i think you'd be surprised how much peoples christmas days vary.

[DECORUM]

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If you think an individual who is a liar, and who has shown such a lack of judgement and morality is a suitable candidate to appear on a publicly funded broadcaster let alone present on christmas day, then you sir are a fool. Simple as that.

Well, you seem a bit excited, so my first advice would be to calm down a bit. If you want to apply these criteria then the BBC would have no programmes. Let's review the facts: YOU chose to raise this subject on a forum about WEFC, YOU chose to invite people to support a petition, and YOU chose to support your invitation with information which you thought would sway opinion behind your argument. Did you think everyone would just blindly agree with you? or should that not be allowed? Obviously I am a fool, because I do not agree with you, but that's rather a weak rebutal isn't it?

I respect the views you hold, but I disagree with them. I have chosen to register my disagreement on the public forum where YOU started the thread. Thats all, why not leave it at that?

Incidentally, I am from Liverpool.

[Clive_Thistle]

I don't see what the problem is, if people feel aggrieved then sign the petition and boycott the show. Simple as that! If people don't want to sign the petition and want to listen to the show then that is up to them. It doesn’t make them Nazi's or bad people.

 

This debate just shows that democracy and freedom of speech is alive and well in this country.

 

If people want to live in a society where only one section of society's views are allowed then I suggest moving to the Middle East, or some parts of Asia some parts of Africa...or the United states.

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DECORUM said:

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If you think an individual who is a liar, and who has shown such a lack of judgement and morality is a suitable candidate to appear on a publicly funded broadcaster let alone present on christmas day, then you sir are a fool. Simple as that.

Well, you seem a bit excited, so my first advice would be to calm down a bit. If you want to apply these criteria then the BBC would have no programmes. Let's review the facts: YOU chose to raise this subject on a forum about WEFC, YOU chose to invite people to support a petition, and YOU chose to support your invitation with information which you thought would sway opinion behind your argument. Did you think everyone would just blindly agree with you? or should that not be allowed? Obviously I am a fool, because I do not agree with you, but that's rather a weak rebutal isn't it?

I respect the views you hold, but I disagree with them. I have chosen to register my disagreement on the public forum where YOU started the thread. Thats all, why not leave it at that?

Incidentally, I am from Liverpool.

I find it fascinating that you claim to be from Liverpool but i'm much more interested in the REASONS behind your disagreement with me. Apart from freedom of speech which i take on board you seem to have very little else to put forward.

Mr Mackenzie clearly feels he can act in what ever way he chooses and that he is untouchable. How would you feel is you had picked up his grubby little tabloid and read the utter cr*p he published that day. Seen as He clearly does not give a monkeys about public opinion on Merseyside or elsewhere maybe he'd be more self-aware if work at the beeb or elsewhere started to dry up?

Do you think this is the sort of gentleman who should be broadcasting on national radio? I don't and neither do i acceot your argument that BBC programming would grind to halt if they applied some moral fibre. They've sacked Blue Peter presenters for doing abit of blow in their spare time so how can a turd like MacKenzie be allowed to block the water pipe?

Come back to me when you've an opinion thats rounded, reasoned and worth listening to.

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Clive_Thistle said:
I don't see what the problem is, if people feel aggrieved then sign the petition and boycott the show. Simple as that! If people don't want to sign the petition and want to listen to the show then that is up to them. It doesn’t make them Nazi's or bad people.

This debate just shows that democracy and freedom of speech is alive and well in this country.

If people want to live in a society where only one section of society's views are allowed then I suggest moving to the Middle East, or some parts of Asia some parts of Africa...or the United states.

Says the man with Oh friendly bombs as his tagline.

Must do better Mr Thistle.

[Clive_Thistle]

Happy Now?? (see tagline)

 

You know my views on Hillsborough and Heysal. I don't agree with what Mackenzie said, nobody that goes to a football match deserves to die and what MacKenzie said was complete rubbish but one day I would like someone somewhere on Merseyside to at least accept some proportion of the blame for the 2 incidents. Maybe that's for a different thread though.

[Big J R]

Wow ! An interesting debate on W & E !

 

The freedom of this country allows people to have their views and air them AS LONG AS THEY DON'T INCITE racial hatred.

 

Very interesting to define exactly what INCITE means.

 

Quite honestly, when certain people go spouting such rubbish as talked about here, the person doing the spouting does absolutely nothing to further their cause, and thereby, makes themself the laughing-stock they already are !

 

The Mary Whitehouse syndrome comes into play here. If something on television/radio offends you personally, then turn it off ! It's called self-censorship !

 

Stopping people who are airing their views when they are not actually committing an offence sinks us to the level of Iraq/Iran/China and the olden days Russia ! [color:"red"]

 

RIGHT !

 

[color:"black"] I'll get back to the CCL forum, where the banter is more light-hearted !

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/chloe.gif" alt="" />

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Did anyone see the top effort of protest against this piece of sh*te over the weekend?

 

Nice one Kopites. http://www.thisisanfield.com/article_3.php?p=698