esl officials prejudiced against eton manor

[Jenko]

...errrr exactly!

[Kaiser Jnr]

Quote:

coach et 64 said:
fitness tests should be done at regular intervals(once a month)but what they lack of it's the practice and the personality to deal with us sharks at this level.training with the players and refereeing them in training will go a long way to help them overcome those problems.i'm sure that the players will have more respect for them as well. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

I cannot see this happening... no matter how much of a good idea it sounds...

These referees have full-time jobs, as most of the ESL players do.
I dont think they would have time to have "fitness tests" of such...

Most of them have families to go back to after days of work...

Are you suggesting they do these "pre-season" or "during season"?!

[Jenko]

BOTH!

[coach et 64]

Quote:

Kaiser Jnr said:

Quote:

coach et 64 said:
fitness tests should be done at regular intervals(once a month)but what they lack of it's the practice and the personality to deal with us sharks at this level.training with the players and refereeing them in training will go a long way to help them overcome those problems.i'm sure that the players will have more respect for them as well. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

I cannot see this happening... no matter how much of a good idea it sounds...

These referees have full-time jobs, as most of the ESL players do.
I dont think they would have time to have "fitness tests" of such...

Most of them have families to go back to after days of work...

Are you suggesting they do these "pre-season" or "during season"?!

they are in the same position as the esl players and they get paid for refereeing.once a month it's not a great deal because every club in this land has a managers meeting once a month if not once a week and we have all got families.the saturday's referee gave a penalty against us saturday and we didn't say anything,just get on with it.to take a cooper test or a leger test takes 12 minutes(cooper) and 20 for the leger.it aint a big thing.being invited to join training with the players and refereeing them during the conditioned games can help the relationship between them.they get to know the players and vice-versa building up a mutual respect versus each other,knowing that if they make a mistake,it's in good faith and mitigate that animosity that there is between them.i have seen managers at our level trying to influence the referee at half-time and sometimes it works.we had some dodgy decisions in a lot of our games but the only thing i did was to make your point in a constructive manner,especially with young refs or linos because at the end of the day they are learning as well.sometimes it goes against you sometimes for.all together we have to knock down that barrier of distrust and suspicion that has been created and i mean "both". <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

[smallsy]

the refs wouldnt be able to ref the games involving the team they train with as it would not be right. but if one ref is assigned to each esl club i think all would profit. pls then the ref earn their money like the players have to.

[Jenko]

I agree with Coachie. Each week the ref could go to different club. Refs make mistakes thats ok. But this season we have had decisions go against us and the mistakes are very very suspious.

[Krooner]

Quote:

EMFC said:
I agree with Coachie. Each week the ref could go to different club. Refs make mistakes thats ok. But this season we have had decisions go against us and the mistakes are very very suspious.

EMFC that is a disgraceful thing to say. You are accusing people of cheating.

Time is a big issue on all of this. I have a young family and I tonight I will be doing my 6th game in 11 days. Are you suggesting I should also go training on the 2 Thursdays. When would I then get to see my family. I do it because I enjoy it. It does not pay my mortgage and does not come first in the grand scheme of things with me. I am happy to do the fitness test at least twice a year and would train with a club if I actually had any spare time.

[Kaiser Jnr]

Quote:

Krooner said:

Quote:

EMFC said:
I agree with Coachie. Each week the ref could go to different club. Refs make mistakes thats ok. But this season we have had decisions go against us and the mistakes are very very suspious.

EMFC that is a disgraceful thing to say. You are accusing people of cheating.

Time is a big issue on all of this. I have a young family and I tonight I will be doing my 6th game in 11 days. Are you suggesting I should also go training on the 2 Thursdays. When would I then get to see my family. I do it because I enjoy it. It does not pay my mortgage and does not come first in the grand scheme of things with me. I am happy to do the fitness test at least twice a year and would train with a club if I actually had any spare time.

Very true Krooner... Its not fair to ask the referees to do fitness sessions every Thursday, or such thing...

It is up to the referee as to whether they put the effort in to maintaining a high level of fitness...

If they chose not to, they are only killing themselves, as they will lose status as a referee!!!

There are plently of players who "cheat" when doing fitness sessions, however they dont get picked on like refs do!!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Referees are bound to make wrong decisions, but they get crucified for making one, that "someone" may not like...

Should we say the same thing when a player makes a wrong pass, wrong decision... Do we all cain him for it!? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

[Jenko]

I am not accusing refs of cheating. If they make mistakes and admit it then fair enough. BUT recently we had the same ref give three penalties against us and turned down 4 of our appeals. Two of the said penalties were dubious. What astonished me was our player ended up with a broken leg from the tackle that the player made on him. The ref then gives them a penalty. When the said ref gave a penalty against us he had such a good game we said it was an honest mistake. Even the opposition bench said it wasn't a penalty. Then in the next game he turns down 3 penalty appeals, gives the other side two and the linesman then chats with me in the bar and says two were definate penalties and the other was close. I didn't start this thread it was Coachey from Hullbridge. He witnessed how the officials acted towards us and thank god he came on here and told people because when we complain all we get told is that we are always moaning unfairly. Hullbridge beat us fair and square but the ref was awful.

[Kaiser Jnr]

Sorry EMFC mate... I wasn't directing my response at you in particular... It was just in general... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

It is notable that they are good ref's and bad ref's... some are liked more by teams than others...

 

I wasn't at any of your games where such referees gave bad decisions, so I will have to take your word for it.

 

I know for a fact, the penalty that the ref gave to us against you, was a stone cold penalty... but thats irrelvent...

 

Anyway, back to the thread....

 

I still think its harsh to ask referees to do extra vigorous training.

Its up to them whether they want to put the effort in. If they don't, they will get reported, and dropped from the league...

[Krooner]

Quote:

Kaiser Jnr said:
Sorry EMFC mate... I wasn't directing my response at you in particular... It was just in general... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is notable that they are good ref's and bad ref's... some are liked more by teams than others...

I wasn't at any of your games where such referees gave bad decisions, so I will have to take your word for it.

I know for a fact, the penalty that the ref gave to us against you, was a stone cold penalty... but thats irrelvent...

Anyway, back to the thread....

I still think its harsh to ask referees to do extra vigorous training.
Its up to them whether they want to put the effort in. If they don't, they will get reported, and dropped from the league...

Biggest problem is lack of refs. By the fact I will be doing my 6th game in 11 days says it all. Players will moan about refs and say that they never played the game etc but where are the ex players taking up the whistle. Very few cos they know how difficult it is and how much grief you do get. I played football until my md twenties and I think that probably helped me and some of the younger refs sometimes don't understand the game. We must remember the level we are at. You will not get Premiership standard refs at ESL level. You will get ESL Level refs. Compare yourself to say Rooney. How do you compare against him. Then perhaps you will not expect the ref to be as good as the top premiership ref. There are good and bad refs as there are good and bad players.

[Jenko]

No need to apologise I know it wasn't directed at me. You beat us fair and square and the ref was quality. I think it was Elliot but he's now gone to Uni up north. I don't mind getting beat but when the ref as a say in it then its a problem. The one we had against Brentwood was awful. even Brentwood said so and they beat us 5 v 1! He played 54mins in the first half and there were no major stoppages. They scored two goals in this period, one at 49mins and one at 53mins. Second half he plays 53mins and they score in the 52min. I'm sorry but there was no way he could play nearly 10mins extra in both halves. That was suspious to me along with several other terrible decisions he made.

[Jenko]

Quote:

Krooner said:
......You will not get Premiership standard refs at ESL level.....

Didn't Andy D'Urso ref in the ESL? If thats the case maybe we are better with what we have!!!!!!!

[Roons]

I think the best refs I've been out with in this league are the ones with the best man management skills. Some teams are very intimidating for referees that dont have good man management skills. There are a lot of good referees stuck on the lines as well, waiting for promotion and such. The only thing I would say is, and I know it's hard, just keep your thoughts to yourself. Have a word with the referee afterwards, and don't scream at him when he's on the field, it will only distract him, and if he is poor, it will only make things worse. I still play occassionally and I do understand how hard it is, and people do get caught up with the passion of the game. Most referees will have a word with you after the game, not all, but most will listen to what you have to say and talk to you.

[coach et 64]

Quote:

Krooner said:

Quote:

EMFC said:
I agree with Coachie. Each week the ref could go to different club. Refs make mistakes thats ok. But this season we have had decisions go against us and the mistakes are very very suspious.

EMFC that is a disgraceful thing to say. You are accusing people of cheating.

Time is a big issue on all of this. I have a young family and I tonight I will be doing my 6th game in 11 days. Are you suggesting I should also go training on the 2 Thursdays. When would I then get to see my family. I do it because I enjoy it. It does not pay my mortgage and does not come first in the grand scheme of things with me. I am happy to do the fitness test at least twice a year and would train with a club if I actually had any spare time.

Krooner,the referees should train the same as the players to improve their vision,speed of thought,reaction time,decision making,and there are specific drills and games that can improve that.now,i'm sure the referees fa(top) is aware of this but leaves the referees at non league level to their destiny.only the ones that are keen and are willing to improve get through it.the others are happy to go through the motions.what we need is" coaching the referees":not only on match days with the assessor telling you what you have done wrong or right,but in training like ,we coaches, do with our players.the best referees are usually the ones that have played football and know a bit of how it should be played.a lot of referees have never kicked a ball in their lives and others see this as a way of earning a few quids.they should take pride in what they do and trying to improve,not just turning up(sometimes pissed like the players) and "see what happens".monthly meetings,where they play matches and everybody assessing each other performance,sharing opinions and ideas with the assessors.twice a year is not enough and once a month won't kill anyone. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

[Krooner]

They are all fair points Coah and I am not disagreeing. But what if the monthly test was this Friday after I had done my 6 games in 11 days. Is that fair on me. The players do not do fitness tests. I bet you have players that do not turn out for every training session but still play ? If we had enough refs then it would be fine but we do not. And 1 of those reasons is player attitudes. When I do a game and a player misses an open goal, and boy do I see a few of them, I dont run 30 yards shouting abuse at the top of my voice ! My County run regular fitness sessions and I try and attend them as do a few of my colleagues but I really do not have the time for what you are suggesting although I agree it is a good idea.

[Krooner]

Also perhaps all players should be made to train as Refs before they are allowed to play ?

[coach et 64]

Quote:

Krooner said:
They are all fair points Coah and I am not disagreeing. But what if the monthly test was this Friday after I had done my 6 games in 11 days. Is that fair on me. The players do not do fitness tests. I bet you have players that do not turn out for every training session but still play ? If we had enough refs then it would be fine but we do not. And 1 of those reasons is player attitudes. When I do a game and a player misses an open goal, and boy do I see a few of them, I dont run 30 yards shouting abuse at the top of my voice ! My County run regular fitness sessions and I try and attend them as do a few of my colleagues but I really do not have the time for what you are suggesting although I agree it is a good idea.

from your words,i can recognize the same mentality that goes on at this level."i haven't got time"same reply i had from some managers at a well known youth football club in southend years ago.it's all right mate but we haven't got time for all of this! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />so the question is:why do you get involved in managing,coaching a junior team?it's all ok picking the team,thinking you are a little wenger,but are you capable of doing it?are you doing anything to improve yourself,your football knowledge so you can pass it on to your young players?i'm asking you the same question now:why you as a referee get yourself involved if you cannot mantain that level of committment towards improving yourself?after all 6 games in 11 days are £120 pounds! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />not bad,if you can pay your gas,electricity and water bills...i managed 16 games and few training sessions in a month but i got [****!!****] all!i do it because i enjoy and love it.still,i find time to go and search for knowledge and improving myself even with 3 kids and a wife at home! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />for four and half years i gave away my tuesday,thursdays nights and my sundays to coach youngsters at a "so called professional club" for the equivalent of £ 30 a week,paid a month in arrears <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />that didn't stop me from trying to pass on the best of my football knowledge to those kids...all for the love of it!so i'm telling you krooner,you're one of them that wearing their ear plugs, are happy to take all that abuse that come their way for the sake of £ 25!you blame the players attitude but that's an excuse to make up for your lack of professionalism.did you notice that when there is a good referee the players behave well?ask yourself why?because they respond to a positive approach and a show of respect from that man in black,that's why! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />the truth lies always half way and prejudice is the word. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

[Jenko]

I agree Coachie. If refs are saying they haven't got time then maybe they shouldn't do it. Thats the problem. You need refs who are committed to the job and put some effort into it. Keeping fit should be a part of your life anyway in this day and age. Also Krooner you seem to be missing a big issue....you are getting paid to ref. Many players in the ESL do not get paid. So in theory you are a professional/semi professional person paid to do a job. Many players, managers and coaches committ a lot of time and effort for no money. They have families too! So instead of making excuses of why refs cannot do something to improve a job they are paid for maybe you should look at the people who do it for mothing.

[Krooner]

Quote:

coach et 64 said:

Quote:

Krooner said:
They are all fair points Coah and I am not disagreeing. But what if the monthly test was this Friday after I had done my 6 games in 11 days. Is that fair on me. The players do not do fitness tests. I bet you have players that do not turn out for every training session but still play ? If we had enough refs then it would be fine but we do not. And 1 of those reasons is player attitudes. When I do a game and a player misses an open goal, and boy do I see a few of them, I dont run 30 yards shouting abuse at the top of my voice ! My County run regular fitness sessions and I try and attend them as do a few of my colleagues but I really do not have the time for what you are suggesting although I agree it is a good idea.

from your words,i can recognize the same mentality that goes on at this level."i haven't got time"same reply i had from some managers at a well known youth football club in southend years ago.it's all right mate but we haven't got time for all of this! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />so the question is:why do you get involved in managing,coaching a junior team?it's all ok picking the team,thinking you are a little wenger,but are you capable of doing it?are you doing anything to improve yourself,your football knowledge so you can pass it on to your young players?i'm asking you the same question now:why you as a referee get yourself involved if you cannot mantain that level of committment towards improving yourself?after all 6 games in 11 days are £120 pounds! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />not bad,if you can pay your gas,electricity and water bills...i managed 16 games and few training sessions in a month but i got [****!!****] all!i do it because i enjoy and love it.still,i find time to go and search for knowledge and improving myself even with 3 kids and a wife at home! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />for four and half years i gave away my tuesday,thursdays nights and my sundays to coach youngsters at a "so called professional club" for the equivalent of £ 30 a week,paid a month in arrears <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />that didn't stop me from trying to pass on the best of my football knowledge to those kids...all for the love of it!so i'm telling you krooner,you're one of them that wearing their ear plugs, are happy to take all that abuse that come their way for the sake of £ 25!you blame the players attitude but that's an excuse to make up for your lack of professionalism.did you notice that when there is a good referee the players behave well?ask yourself why?because they respond to a positive approach and a show of respect from that man in black,that's why! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />the truth lies always half way and prejudice is the word. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/pipe.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Coach but you have spoken some serious drivel here. I do the amount I can do. If that is deemed not enough by the powers that be then fine I will happily move down a level. I do it because I enjoy it and 99% of the time there is no problem. The clubs have the power to write reports re bad refs and on the league that I officiate each year the worst ones are moved off the list. You have spoken like a true coach/manager with your blinkers on. All you ideas, which I agree with if possible, are good but they all involve the ref doing his bit. Where does the players doing their bit come in. Why do you not invite a local ref down to speak to your guys about the laws of the game or even better get a course arrange with your local refs society and get your players to become qualified referees.

It may not seem it Coach but we are pulling in the same direction but there has to be give and take from both sides.