So Now its The Motorist!

[pabird]

Staggering labour government this having made us accept without comment ever continuing dips into our wallets at a rate over nine years of one tax increase every few months (increases in nine years over 150)

Now it’s to road tax to £1k plus for 4 x 4s.

Cash for travelling in rush hour (noted by satellite) and of course when? We have ID cards at circa £60 to £70 pounds each we will have to pay £18 per change to card due to any change in our circumstance.

Consider how a fixed income pensioner will manage to run a car or are we suggesting they should be off roaded in the brave new labour party world?

How will people with 4 X 4 cars who only do very little mileage be able to afford £1k plus in road tax? Surely fuel tax is punishment enough for the car users.

How are “honest” young families with two children to afford the ID cards which they must have before paying out more monies for passports and then having booked their holidays find they have to pay an “airport tax” which has also been suggested this morning.

Never mind I feel certain the politburo members will not have to share our misery.

[Stu M]

Agree for the most part pabird. But I'm not losing any sleep over...

 

 

Quote:

pabird said:

Now it’s to road tax to £1k plus for 4 x 4s.

[The Invisible Man]

Why is everyone blindly jumping onto an anti-4 wheel drive vehicle bandwagon? There is no justification for targetting a 4x4 as opposed to 2 wheel drive vehicle. Wil the ASudi Quattro also be taxed so much I wonder?

 

There are cars with much bigger engines out there, and are considerably longer vehicles - BMW's, Mercs, Jags and so on. Let's all have a go at these pointless vehicles, shall we? Or Aston Martins, Bentleys, Porsches etc etc. And while we're at it, how about so-called "people carriers"? Most of these have engines at least as large as a 4x4 and are totally pointless vehicles, a mere fashion trend. Most models cannot carry any luggage if there are 4 or more people in them, you are actually better off with a normal car with a decent sized boot.

 

How is a Land Rover that is used for less than 12000 miles a year less green than a 3 ltre car that does over 24000?

 

I doubt if many people realise that that superb piece of PR and marketing, the Toyota Hybrid, is actually less green than any Land Rover model except the Range Rover.

 

Pabird is correct in noting that the government is again using the trendy "green" card as a excuse to hike taxes under the pretext of doing something beneficial. It's a bit strange that other countries aren't following such lunacies. I've just driven from Spain across France, where diesel is cheaper than petrol, and both are chepaer than in the UK - and it "includes" road tax, there is no seperate road tax disc to buy. I guess that once again the rest of the world is out of step.....

 

But hey, you can't tell fanatics anything.

[Son of Sam]

Oh sh1t ,I'd better get a new car then.

[Stu M]

Quote:

The Invisible Man said:
Why is everyone blindly jumping onto an anti-4 wheel drive vehicle bandwagon? There is no justification for targetting a 4x4 as opposed to 2 wheel drive vehicle. Wil the ASudi Quattro also be taxed so much I wonder?

I was on it long before it was a bandwagon. And you're dead right about other cars with big engines... and I fully accept that my prejudice is founded on nothing more than being easily irked by bullies in feckin' enormous road warriors barging me out of the way.

But pardon me if I stifle a laugh when their road tax comes through. Maybe if some of them avoid putting on those Monster Tyres and lifting the suspension of the vehicle to quite unnecessary heights, they could put the money saved towards the road tax. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Lightweight]

And deaths on the roads have increased dramatically since the increase of 4x4.

[Sharming Paula]

You're all moaning about 4x4 what about the poxy cars that tow a caravan, white van man etc etc.

Not all 4x4 drivers are bullies!!!

 

I personally can't see the road tax being increased to 1K. That means they would have to increase the HGV licencing and then that would increase the cost of living because the haulier would pass the increase onto us the consumer and so it goes on.

 

As for the deaths on the road increasing well from a drivers perspective they are safer to drive than a car because you have better all round vision on the road, so can not see how that can be true (unless you mean pedestrians because of the 'bull bars') although by law they are no longer wrap around bars so safer on impact!!

 

You lot got me going now!!!

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

[Stu M]

Quote:

Paula said:
As for the deaths on the road increasing well from a drivers perspective they are safer to drive

Ah, that's OK then. For the driver anyway...

[Sharming Paula]

Quote:

Stu M said:

Quote:

Paula said:
As for the deaths on the road increasing well from a drivers perspective they are safer to drive

Ah, that's OK then. For the driver anyway...

Try reading the remainder of the post!!

[Stu M]

I did, but I was still left with the impression that the issue of bull bars or indeed any danger to the pedestrian was in second place behind comfort to the driver.

 

I admit I'm trolling a bit <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> so forgive me. But I can't for the life of me see why anyone feels sorry for 4x4 drivers. Their vehicles are £35k-plus for the most part (unless you buy a really cheap model), the petrol costs must be astronomical - particularly those I see in south London that go to the shops in them and sit idle for hours in traffic jams - so if they choose to finance these vehicles, a little extra road tax surely doesn't hurt them.

 

There are far more deserving causes in society.

[Sharming Paula]

Sorry Stu - I'm not asking ANYONE to feel sorry for me.

I love my 4 x 4 (Freelander) and I didnt pay 35K for it but I don't consider it cheap either. Don't do the school runs as most women do (no kids) and don't just drive around town! Excellent for the mut and for when I go riding or helping at the animal sanctury close to where I live!!

I am sure as you say if we choose to own one of these vehicles then it is down to us to finance them. No one is asking you!!!

 

As for the deserving causes - I do my bit for many charities as well as owning my 4 x 4!!!

 

Thank You

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Quote:

Lightweight said:
And deaths on the roads have increased dramatically since the increase of 4x4.

I thought that was when Volvo drivers were told how safe they were in an accident!

[Stu M]

Quote:

Paula said:
Sorry Stu - I'm not asking ANYONE to feel sorry for me.

Oh no, I wasn't accusing you of that... but some people do defend 'the motorist' to the hilt. The price of petrol is disgusting, I admit, but at the end of the day a 1p rise in petrol costs the average punter 40p more when they fill the tank. Is it that big a hardship? (While I understand it cripples some haulage firms and for heavy road users hikes their expenses up a bit...)

I just laugh when I hear motoring organisations bleating about 'hard-pressed motorists'. I am one, I used to drive 600 miles a week, my petrol prices rose from 52p a litre to 95p a litre in a few years - it made a small dent in my pocket, but no more than the train fares do now, and I didn't think it worthy of some individual 'motorists' voting out a government on that basis alone. One bloke on the TV the other day (and I accept this is an isolated example) actually said he cared more about the petrol going up than he did the NHS, education, or the daily slaughter in the Middle East!

[The Invisible Man]

There are so many misconceptions and dodgy statistics. Your "statistic" is circumstantial - it does not state how many accidents were caused by one (or more) vehicle involved being 4 wheel drive and that would otherwise not have occurred had it been 2 wheel drive. The one about pedestrian safety is based on false statistics too but I can't lay my hands on the reference at the moment.

 

There are all sorts of 4x4's - few of which are jacked up or fitted with monster tyres. Very few 4x4's are bigger than medium sized cars - they are higher, but not longer. I have no difficulty parking mine in ordinary bays. Some, like the silly little hairdresser cars, or the smaller real ones, are not very big at all. The fuel consumption is generally comparable to other vehicles with similar size engines - better in some cases, the TD5 diesel is a superb and efficient engine. Only luxury 4x4s cost over 35k (although frankly I can't see the point of them, the BMW or Merc, for example, or even the Range Rover, I doubt if many of then ever get muddy but that's their owner's choice).

 

A special and punitive tax would be difficult to define. Unlike Land Rovers, many marques do not have permanent four wheel drive: there is a little knob to engage it. Thus most of the time the car is a two wheel drive. (Bizarrely the Jeep always engages diff lock with 4 wheel drive, which is possibly damaging if you forget to disengage it on return to tarmac. But I digress). Even the excellent Freelander has a viscous differential which transmits varying proprtions of drive to the front and rear wheels in response to the conditions.

 

Now, if people wanted to rant about unneccesarily large cars in general, then I would say yes there is an arguement. But to select a group purely on the grounds of its transmission is ludicrous and is itself merely a fashion statement.

 

Re. fuel costs, true I never understand why people drive three miles to a garage where it is 0.1p a litre cheaper. I also do not understand (well yes I do, the majority of the cost is tax) why fuel is more expensive in the UK than elsewhere. As I say, due to high fuel taxes you already pay more tax per mile than the driver of a small car - AND the road tax is much higher.

 

I do not wish anyone else to change their car because I do not like it. You drive whatever you want, provided it is taxed, insured and MoT'd if applicable.

[pabird]

If, as often stated by insurance companies, most accidents are involving young drivers will they be taxed over and above the norm.

[morrisonsm]

Quote:

pabird said:
If, as often stated by insurance companies, most accidents are involving young drivers will they be taxed over and above the norm.

No, but they do have to pay more insurance, so are penalised that way!

[pabird]

But 4 x 4 drivers pay over the top for insurance plus the government wishes to make them pay more tax.

[morrisonsm]

The solution is to sell your car and buy a different car!

[pabird]

The answer is to accept that if you tax petrol then the real culprits are punished accordingly

[The Invisible Man]

Why should I?

 

Why not say the same to owners of luxury cars, sports cars and people carriers?

 

Is Big Brother now teling us we must all drive Smart cars? Is it alright if we choose what to wear while driving them or must we wear uniform overalls approved by government and self righteous self appointed single issue simpleton pressure groups?

 

What about farmers, forestry workers, emergency services, public utilities, armed forces, countryside and wildlife organizations, archaeologists etc? Will you allow them to choose the most appropriate form of transmission for their vehicle?