feelings on what is happening in the Middle East

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Lebanon are launching rockets into Israel, or don't you accept that? Israel is an ally, so America is sticking up for that nation, or don't you accept that either. Britain was an ally of Poland, so they stuck up for them....Easy really!

[Stu M]

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
Lebanon are launching rockets into Israel, or don't you accept that?

I don't, no. Lebanon aren't hurling rockets into Israel. Hezbollah are. Now while part of Hezbollah has some influence in Lebanese politics, the rocket attacks are not an action of the Lebanese government.

That's like saying we should have carpet-bombed Dublin because of the IRA.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

I have Lebanese friends here, and they certainly aren't sad about what Hezbollah are doing, and i don't see the Lebanese government doing anything about it. If you allow terrorist activities to take place in your country you shoud face the consequences.

[Stu M]

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
If you allow terrorist activities to take place in your country you shoud face the consequences.

Even if the consequences are as severe as the destruction of your infrastructure and the death of hundreds and likely to be thousands of civilians?

I've no problem with people supporting the Israeli stance, AFF, but just because you think they have a right to stamp out terrorism, are they right to DO IT ON THE SCALE they are doing it and with the seeming lack of care they're going about it?

The trouble with this issue is people seem only prepared to take one side and stick to it, blindly supporting Israel's situation (which is fine) and so turning a blind eye to their way of going about it which is to unleash, in my opinion, an unnecessarily lethal response.

PS. And as Invisible Man said above, the State of Israel was created with the help of Zionist terrorism which targeted, amongst others, British soldiers in the late 1940s. Short memories, some people.

[The Invisible Man]

Stu is perfectly correct, and his anaolgy with bombing Dublin is appropriate. In such an event it would have appropriate to send troops into another country (Ireland) to attempt to deal with the individuals or organization (IRA) concerned if the Irish government was unable or unwilling to intervene. It would not have been appropriate to bomb or shell Irish towns or civilian targets.

 

As Israel well knows, the Lebanese government is very weak and is hardly in a position to do anything about the activities of Hezbollah. What bombing and shelling of Lebanese civilian targets is supposed to achieve is beyond me - except of course hardening the attitudes of moderate Lebanese citizens.

 

However, this is all a digression from my original main point that no incident can really be seen in isolation (again, some superficial similarities to Ireland) as it all goes back to the original foundation of Israel - and indeed further back.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

They are bombing(so called)civilian targets because that is where Hezbollah is entrenched, hiding under womens skirts. Likle all terrorists they hardly turn up in a field every morning to fight, they use civilians as cover knowing there will be casualties to make Israel look bad.

Israel probably don't want to get involved in a large ground war, knowing it would probably turn out like Iraq.

My original point was, this has been going on for thousands of years, and until the Arab nations,(who are giving terrorists aid) leave Israel in peace, it will probably continue for thousands more!

[Stu M]

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
They are bombing(so called)civilian targets because that is where Hezbollah is entrenched, hiding under womens skirts.

So because the terrorists do that, is it OK to bomb those civilian targets? Hey, there's two Hezbollah in there and 500 kids. Hmmm, great odds, let's blow it away.

Of course you're right, AFF, the terrorists are cowardly swine who are hiding amidst civilians, but the Israelis need to find some other tactics rather than aim in the general direction and fire.

Western forces wouldn't get away with it quite so much (while they still do often hit civilian targets, but not quite so blatantly).

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
My original point was, this has been going on for thousands of years, and until the Arab nations,(who are giving terrorists aid) leave Israel in peace,

But Israel set up their 'homeland' in an Arab area no more than 60 years ago. Israel's claim to the land goes back to Roman times and ignores 1,000 years of Arab settlement in between. If the Italians came and plonked themselves on London claiming it was there historic Roman homeland, I'd imagine we'd get a bit arsed off.

Still, Israel and BushBlair must be right and the rest of the world wrong cos they're all stinking commie pinko pro-terrorist cowards, right?

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Is it right for Hezbollah to fire rockets into civilian Israel? Is it right for Hezbollah to kidknap two Israeli soldiers?

Israel handed back some of the land, in the middle east, they annexed, only for that land to be used to attack them, the very reason it was annexed in the first place.

Civilian casualties are to be expected. I don't know any war where civilians weren't killed, or even targeted!

War is dirty,always has been always will be.

The Arabs have fought amongst themselves for thousands of years too. The only thing they can agree on, is to remove Israel from the face of the earth!

 

 

I think the English might get annoyed if Scotland, or Ireland, or even Wales, started launching rockets at England, and retaliate!

Most countries try to negotiatea way around their differences. Negotiation isn't in the Arabic vocabulary.

[Barry Scott]

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The Invisible Man said:
Stu is perfectly correct, and his anaolgy with bombing Dublin is appropriate. In such an event it would have appropriate to send troops into another country (Ireland) to attempt to deal with the individuals or organization (IRA) concerned if the Irish government was unable or unwilling to intervene. It would not have been appropriate to bomb or shell Irish towns or civilian targets.

well if the English hadn't tried to colonize Ireland in the four hundred years previous, maybe the Irish wouldn't have felt the need to rise up. Ever think of that?

[Stu M]

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AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
Is it right for Hezbollah to fire rockets into civilian Israel? Is it right for Hezbollah to kidknap two Israeli soldiers?

No, of course it's not. The point I'm making is no-one's excusing terrorist scum like Hezbollah. But those of you who back Israel can't seem to bring yourselves to admit they may occasionally be a little extreme in their military deployments. Where would you draw the line, AFF? Are Israel OK in your book to go on bombing Lebanon into the Stone Age until they're satisfied Hezbollah have been neutered? The ironic thing is that most observers seem to believe Israel's bombardment hasn't actually weakened Hezbollah's operational effectiveness. What a lot of dead and maimed civilians for no reason, eh?

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Civilian casualties are to be expected. I don't know any war where civilians weren't killed, or even targeted!
War is dirty,always has been always will be.

So we just forget about it then and applaud Israel do we because war is crap and civilians die? Honestly, just because civilian casualties are expected is no reason to wash your hands of it.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Quote:So we just forget about it then and applaud Israel do we because war is crap and civilians die? Honestly, just because civilian casualties are expected is no reason to wash your hands of it.

 

Britain did after the second world war.

My point is...If you don't want the [****!!****] to hit the fan.........Don't throw it in the first place!

[pabird]

The Lebanese are the genteel peoples of the Arab nations, The Israeli’s are the cornered, the rest swing from hawks to doves according to their needs at the time.

The Americans are the all-time disaster area in diplomacy we the Brits have hundreds of years of maintaining diplomatic contacts throughout the middle east and Blair has blown those hundreds of years away in his stupid no brain desire to be seen as a world statesman.

The only success GB and the US of A have gained is as recruiting agents for terrorist organisations.

The Arab nations must be encouraged to gain universal Arab recognition of Israel, Israel must be encouraged to become the farmers and engineers of the middle east, possible? Well up to two years ago a foreseeable future in the long term.

Since GB and US of A meddling nobody reading this forums comments can live long enough to witness any such outcome.