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MbrunoB Newbie

MbrunoB

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If you type it out but nobody read it would it really exist? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

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Ron Merlin Newbie

Ron Merlin

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One for the philosophers:

 

Robert Anton Wilson, a friend of the late Tim Leary, author of the Illuminatus Trilogy (the best consipracy satire you'll read) has a few words on "belief" and "reality". Theists look away now.

 

From Cosmic Trigger Volume 1 - Robert Anton Wilson.

 

"My attitude is identical to that of Dr. Gribbin and the majority of physicists today, and is known in physics as "the Copenhagen Interpretation," because it was formulated in Copenhagen by Dr. Niels Bohr and his co-workers c. 1926-28. The Copenhagen Interpretation is sometimes called "model agnosticism" and holds that any grid we use to organize our experience of the world is a model of the world and should not be confused with the world itself. Alfred Korzybski, the semanticist, tried to popularize this outside physics with the slogan, "The map is not the territory." Alan Watts, a talented exegete of Oriental philosophy, restated it more vividly as "The menu is not the meal."

 

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude."

 

More here.

 

To summarise, in the words of Robyn Hitchcock:

 

"You are just your feelings,

It might give you vertigo."

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Steph Contributor

Steph

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But surely Niels Bohr's theory relies on the uncertainty principle that we can only identify where something has been and not where it is going. As soon as we observe the universe we alter its existence in some way.

 

Therefore if we follow Bohr's ideas then clearly the Id recognises the universe is outside itself and can not be a part of it without affecting its existence. (See freud).

 

To go back to whether anybody reads the message. Brunob's problem. Does it matter for the message is written anyway so who cares who reads it. Does it even exist after it has been read except in the minds of the reader(s) and the writer.

 

BTW to quote Marlon.

 

"Can you whistle through your nose."

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Ron Merlin Newbie

Ron Merlin

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Quote:
Steph said:
But surely Niels Bohr's theory relies on the uncertainty principle that we can only identify where something has been and not where it is going. As soon as we observe the universe we alter its existence in some way. Therefore if we follow Bohr's ideas then clearly the Id recognises the universe is outside itself and can not be a part of it without affecting its existence. (See freud).


Holy crap, Steph! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's a bugger, this quantum psychology. Not sure I can answer properly in a "quick-before-the boss-looks" post, though. Speaking for myself, I am aware that the menu is not the meal and the map is not the territory, but I'm happy to go along with the concept of a loosely-defined consensus reality. I even think it's essential. I think I exist, therefore I do. Lazarou (boo!) exists. ETFC exist. Even Uncle Urchin exists (although I think he's a figment of his own imagination) Or have I gone back to Descartes?

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Steph said:Does it matter for the message is written anyway so who cares who reads it. Does it even exist after it has been read except in the minds of the reader(s) and the writer.


That old Zen thingummy about a tree falling in the forest and nobody being around to hear it and whether it makes a sound comes to mind now. If Brunob makes a noise on the messageboard and nobody reads it, did he really make a noise?

And no, I can't whistle through my nose! Can you whistle when you're eating blancmange? I wouldn't advise it, though (more Wilson)

My head hurts now <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/achso.gif" alt="" />
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Steph Contributor

Steph

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Hmm Chopper

 

There you go a really good demonstration of the "uncertainty principle". You have observed Gazza's post and your observation has clearly had an impact on Gazza's universe. His decision to "go with you" will be influenced by your observation to "come on gazza"

 

Now we wonder whether he has read the message and two universes collide.

 

We cannot observe whether he will "Come on" or not; only that he is "going with you" as that is where he has been.

 

"It is a mistake to believe that a science consists in nothing but conclusively proved propositions, and it is unjust to demand that it should. It is a demand only made by those who feel a craving for authority in some form and a need to replace the religious catechism by something else, even if it be a scientific one. Science in its catechism has but few apodictic precepts; it consists mainly of statements which it has developed to varying degrees of probability. The capacity to be content with these approximations to certainty and the ability to carry on constructive work despite the lack of final confirmation are actually a mark of the scientific habit of mind." -- Freud

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MbrunoB Newbie

MbrunoB

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Ron Merlin said:
To summarise, in the words of Robyn Hitchcock:

"You are just your feelings,
It might give you vertigo."

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Was that with or without The Egyptians? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Ron Merlin Newbie

Ron Merlin

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Brunob said:
Quote:
Ron Merlin said:
To summarise, in the words of Robyn Hitchcock:

"You are just your feelings,
It might give you vertigo."

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Was that with or without The Egyptians? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


With the Egyptians, from "The Devil's Coachman" on the Queen Elvis album. Most peculiar. From the same song:

"Yesterday I saw the Devil in the nude
It was embarrassing, I turned away
He was leering in the mirror when I looked again"

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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MbrunoB Newbie

MbrunoB

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I must dig out my old album of his.

 

Saw him live once and that was an experience!

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Ron Merlin Newbie

Ron Merlin

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Brunob - when you saw RH, did he play Brenda's Iron Sledge? ("All aboard Brenda's iron sledge, please don't call me Reg, it's not my name") <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> From the Gotta Let this Hen Out live album.

 

Dear old Robyn's still touring, anyway - dates:

 

European Tour With The Minus 3

 

June 22 Hyde Park Wireless Festival London

June 23 TBA

June 24 Cannon Hill Park 'Open Air MAC Theatre' Birmingham

June 25 Harewood House Wireless Festival Leeds

July 4 Loppen Copenhagen

July 5 Tredgarn Accelerator Festival Goteborg

July 6 Rockerfeller Oslo

July 7 Peace & Love Festival Accelerator Stage Borlange, Sweden

July 9 Oxfordshire Folk Festival Cornbury

 

More here: http://www.robynhitchcock.com/auditori.htm

And here: http://www.fegmania.org/index.html

All your Robyn links here: http://www.fegmania.org/links.html

 

BTW Gazza, totally agree about that Baldock penalty save <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bow.gif" alt="" /> Unbelievable!

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