Sickening actions of scum in the name of England / saterday.

[blueblood]

I started work after the game saturday and finished in the early hours. I constantly saw people fighting, Police cars/vans flying in and out of the station. One incident as i passed by was bettween 20/30 drink(whatever else) fueled thugs kicking the crap out of one guy.

Why, what for, i could talk in length about other incidents and people i recognised from our fan base(though i do not know there names) involved.

Why as a Nation do we feel the need to drink ourselves into such a state that we become so crazed?.

I hope our fans in Germany behave. If memory serves are we not still on probation after Euro 04. Were we not threatened with expulsion from all championships if our behaviour did not improve.

I believe the brewers take a lot of responsibility for the violence on saturday. The type of sugar filled so called Alcopops and the high caffeine Energy drinks which are placed on the market.

Perhaps people in general have so little real worries to contend with these days(where their Kids next meal is coming from, where they can get their next days work to buy fuel or a winter coat for little john or Joan). Instead they worry about whether they can upgrade there sound system and upgrade from a 32" to a 42" just for a months soccer.

I hope this topic gives you something to think about and a topic to get your teeth into.

[Cookie]

I see it most days too Graham. This government needs to perk up the sentencing laws to deal with these thugs.The judges are making crime look a prosperous business as well as making fighting,whether it be under the influence or not,acceptable because of extremely lenient punishments.I understand the judges are mostly going by the law but its about time those that rule government stepped in to re-inforce those punishments & better still make them look more of a deterant to those that think its just fun to be committing crimes and assaults.Time for action!! Maybe I will get up a petition l.o.l. about it to go with the "Suns" appeal for strickter sentencing.

Seriously, its about time SOMETHING was done to put off these idiots who think they are a law unto themselves.The have to be stopped NOW!! Although this is a football forum & hooligans are what is being discussed,everyday,in the real world,in public,away from the sporting venues matters of this nature are occurring & need nullifying.

Its gone on far too long.If the government dont step in soon vigilante groups will be rising to deal with situatons that those who are in office are afraid to deal with.Name & shame them,no matter what the age.If they are big enough to do the crime give them sentences to fit.If they get 5 years on first offence others will sit up & notice. Until these sentences are passed & adhered to then I'm afraid actions of this nature will continue to grow.Enoughs enough!

I feel very strongly about this too Graham as I see you do.

[freefred]

I happen to know from a reliable source that there were at least 18 extra bail hearings set for margate magistrates court yesterday (Monday). All of these were related to trouble following Englands match. I freely admit that I dont drink alcohol myself, but to be honest, I would not go to any licensed premises to watch a football match any more, even our on blue gate club. Before anyone takes offence st this I am not lumping Margate fans who do go to the club to watch England matches in with these mindless yobs, my main contention is I've got to get home again past the other idiots who have gone to other pubs. It made me sick on Saturday when I went to my local supermarket to see little idiots with trolleys full of beer just so they could watch a football match. Its got to the point now where I would accept the banning of showing England matches on television, just to stop these idiots. sorry for the rant.

[Cookie]

No, No. That wouldnt solve anything. If anything the World Cup should keep the peace MORE(in theory)! Whether it turns out that way has to be seen but at least this tournament SHOULD keep the kids off the street.What happens afterwards needs to be kept an eye on by the law and ACTED upon HEAVILY should the need arise. Besides why should law abiding people lose out because idiots cant control themselves.

[Coffin Ender]

This is hardly a new problem - people have always liked a drink and a fight. You just have to look at Hogarth's Gin Lane (from 1751) to see that.

However, most young people are more affluent than ever before and there are so many cheap booze promotions.

We either need massive taxation on alcohol (won't happen, a vote loser) or for the Government to screw up the economy so nobody can afford to get drunk!

[freefred]

Unfortunately as weve already seen it doesnt keep the idiots off the streets, it just gives them an excuse to get tanked up and then hit the streets. Dont get me wrong, I know the banning of England matches from T.V. is a very draconian step, but if the choice came down to watching England or feeling safe having to go out, I know which I would pick. I am not a small bloke, and my size makes me fairly safe most of the time, but my wife is in a wheelchair and becomes an easy target for these idiots. Even if it is only verbal abuse from tanked up youngsters, I dont want or need to see/hear it. Again sorry to rant but I hate to see something I love being destroyed by alcohol.

[Hornet]

Agree with the above posts and am really starting to despair with what's going on. Went for what should have been a nice stroll with my girlfriend down Broadstairs seafront after the game on Saturday to be confronted by a thirty strong gang singing get yer tits out for the lads from the clifftop to a packed beach of families and booting a football about with absolutely no consideration for the elderly or small children and thinking bad language and intimidating behaviour is clever when all it really does is shows them for the c0cks that they are. Vigilante groups is probably the only way forward-I know plenty of forty and fifty somethings who would really like to meat out some instant justice (the only language these chavvys understand) 'cos unfortunately the forces of lawlessness and disorder do b*gger all. As I said-I really do despair.

[Gate Watcher]

I think the answer will be to vote to Tories back into office. They might screw up the economy and get tougher on the antisocial scum that think they can run our towns and cities. Hopefully they can price them out of the market with a hike in taxes on alcohol.

[blueblood]

Although i do not believe in vigilantes, what are we left with. We have replaced the police force (Due i believe to the dreaded BUDGET controls/man power cuts and increased bureaucracy) with a force of reactors who instead of policing situation and stamping on the problem, turn up mob handed in the big vans and pour out onto the street like a tub of upturned water missing a lot of the time the real perpetrators of the incident.

As for sentencing. what's the point in giving community orders/asbo's or small fines. For public order offences they need shaming. Bring back the public stocks. For drug related offences/serious violence bring back the public whipping post.

I am not saying stop drinking in public houses during games, what needs looking at is the TYPE/PRICE of drink brewers are putting on the market.

Another cause is the vast volume of cheap booze the brewers are prepared to sell to the supermarkets (£16 quid for 2 cases of Stella)at prices far lower than the struggling landlord has to pay.

It is the same syndrome in a way as the farmer taking the blame for Mad Cows desiese, when it was realy the multi national corporations who used the animal protien in its cattle feed product without telling anybody. The multi national brewers, brew and sell the cut price booze, on saturday night or prior to a game the youngsters fill up at home or round a mates then go out to top up. These multi national bosses, who sit in there plush London office blocks counting the cash, cut of from the realities/ misery caused by there rush for production and mass bulk sales fiquers. What society needs is a fundimental change of attitude to stop us as a nation slipping into complete oblivion.

[blueblood]

Are you so certain one politician is any better than the next.

[seasidesteve]

i dont agree with any of this if it wasnt football it would be something else.the reason all stems back to having no dicipline for youngsters.the do gooders in our society are doing the opposite of what they want,they are destroying all respect for others and a few (only a few )think they can ride roughshod over everyone else.send them to army stile boot camps to learn some manners.i dont believe the price of booze has anything to do with it

[Gate Watcher]

I agree with army boot camps. That would teach them a thing or two but in this day and age with our Americanised society there would be legal action and human right issues which this government has encouraged. We need something to happen fast in this country before people are being killed left right and centre with guns like they do in America.

 

BB as a Labour voter in the past maybe it would not make much difference but anything to get rid of this ridiculous Americanised government would be a start.

[margateshot]

gatewatcher..just got back from night duty this morning. 2000 hrs call to fight in Tulse Hill involving 20+ youths fighting with knives and a firearm seen. Youth stopped no firearm but carrying blank rounds. 2130 Firearms call male seen with gun in Brixton Town centre. 2230- attend address in Brixton where three males, one armed with handgun, burst into house and force occupiers at gunpoint into downstairs living room and tell them to lay on floor before fleeing when one is recognised. 0200 firearms call where another male is seen with firearm. Last week youth stabbed to death on our ground. Two weeks ago male shot next to Police station. Three weeks ago two police officers shot at, one being grazed by bullet. Did not even make the local news. Just another night shift. Unfortunately this is a regular occurrence but goes unreported. Oh and by the way none of this is football related, just a breakdown of respect and parentage. Its closer than you think.

[Stokesie1]

Nothing you can really say to that is there?! Totally agree with the discipline, disrespect is everywhere, not only when its the world cup!

I'm nearly a qualified teacher and i'm worried sick about the amount of violence that is going on within schools. Im sick of being sweared at by 13year olds and having parents that basically don't give a toss!! Whats happened to my human rights? I can't say a word to these kids, or the parents! Unfortunatly thats society and i love the job!

Maybe the parents need to be punished for those kids under the legal age?! Or bring back the cane!!!!! (joke for the do gooders out there!!)

[blueblood]

My cousin joined Manchester police, completed his training and went out onto the street. He did not last long, he said there was to much violence (including gun). He left the police and instead joined the Army where he said at least you can answer fire with fire and have a chance. This was 30 + years ago, he retired from the army last year unscathed. Since then things have got, and seem to be getting increasingly worse.

Back to the reaction. The other night those guys with the chav cars were spinning wheels under somerfields in Margate the Skoda came, moved them on. Then the Chavs came back not long after and have been back every night since. Last night the Skoda came back and not long after the noise resumed. I believe we have a situation here in which the council say any thing going on in the car park is down to the buildings owners(IE pot holes, security, damage to the drop doors which used to come down and seal the area at night. BUT, it is the council who charge me for parking if i use the building, It is the council who are driving the customers out of town to westwood by charging and after taking the revenues it is the council that is not taking even partial responsibility. My point being if The law makers (though local) cannot accept responsibility how can they expect others to do so.

If i was in Margateshots position i am sure i would be totally frustrated with my situation. You go out there, do your job, bring Joe soap in , charge him/her only to see the dispensers of justice let them walk.

I believe(correct me if i am wrong Margateshot), laws are in place to deal with the majority of offences. Respect starts at home but it also comes with consistency. The laws we have are there to deal with the basic offences, littering, riding your bike without lights, hanging around in gangs etc. As a kid if you keep getting away with the little things you will become cocky and move on, that's human nature. If you are lucky as i was and had strict parents and a local police force who knew every one on their manner and in reverse, you have a good protected child hood.

If you grow up on an estate and have parents who do not bother even to close the door let alone open it for you in the morning, (Local drug dealers who sit sunning themselves on benches provided for them on the traffic island while plying their trade) 2 over worked beat bobbies ( been up in Tonbridge for weeks know investigating a murder)whom i have only seen once in 2 years or so then its down to luck and you are in an unsafe environment with loads of peer pressures.

My point i suppose is if you let the little things slip they pick up a momentum and you end up with a smothering land slide.

 

It is time the politicians on all sides got there acts together to give the police the resources they need to do the job.