The Big Question - Club or Country?

[lovely stuff]

Wonder if her brother was quite a traumatised in hearing the police knock at the door?

 

 

Quote:

By JOHN KAY and

MIKE SULLIVAN

SECURITY chiefs say this is the picture that proves they were right to order the “poison bomb” raid.

The suspects’ elder brother Mohammed Abdullah Hasnath is caught on camera taking part in the hate-filled London march against anti-Islam cartoons in a Danish newspaper.

He waves a black flag and tries to cover his face with a scarf as he stands beside two other protesters — including Omar Khayam, 22, who is dressed as a suicide bomber.

Hasnath joined in the controversial demo in February while on day release from jail where he is serving six years for a firearms offence.

He gave as his home the address in Forest Gate, East London, where police carried out last Friday’s raid.

His brothers Mohammed Abdul Kahar, 23, and Abul Koyair, 20, were arrested as 250 police officers swooped following an MI5 tip-off.

Kahar was wounded by a firearms officer’s gun. Both are held and have been quizzed.

Kohair will face a hearing via videolink at Bow Street magistrates today as cops apply for an extension to his detention.

A solicitor read out a statement from him last night, saying: “I still maintain that I am completely innocent.”

Anti-terror cops were still searching the house yesterday for bomb clues. Security sources said the link with Hasnath justified the raid.

One said: “It is highly significant that there is a link between Hasnath and the brothers. Hasnath took part in an anti-West demo and was seen associating with the mock suicide bomber Khayam.

“He gave the prison authorities the address where the raid was carried out as his home. He certainly lived there before he was jailed. This only helps to prove that we were 100 per cent right to carry out that raid.”

Hasnath was on day release from Springhill Open Prison, Bucks, when he attended the London rally.

Marchers’ banners proclaimed “Britain you will pay — 7/7 on its way”.

Hasnath was returned to jail for breaching parole.

Khayam — a convicted drug dealer — had also been released on licence and was immediately sent back to jail.

Last Friday Hasnath, who has a different father to the two brothers, flew into a rage in his cell when he heard of the raid.

Fellow inmates heard him shout: “That’s my brother, that’s my brother. I want to break free, I want to get out of here.”

As a result of the outburst, he was moved to Grendon top security prison in Bucks.

PM Tony Blair last night strongly defended the police raid, saying he backed them “101 per cent”.

He said it was their “duty” to “go and do everything possible” to foil terror plots

[Steph]

Ah yes LS

 

Guilt by association always a good one to justify shooting an unarmed man. When will they be knocking on my door and will you justify that by my association with drug addicts, arms dealers etc.

 

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out."

Martin Niemöller

[lovely stuff]

What should the police have done,with the revelation from a previously 100% relable informant, that a chemical bomb was primed and ready for immediate use,at that particular address.(an address already on police record as the home address for a known extremist sympathiser,a drug dealer and a someone with firearms offences.

 

Seriously, if you were chief constable,how would you have dealt with the situation?

[Gazza]

Quote:

Steph said:
.....Guilt by association always a good one to justify shooting an unarmed man....

Where do you start an investigation then if not with known suspects?

The police cant win with the likes of your lot can they!

[Man From Mars]

Quote:

Steph said:
Might just see you in St Osyth.

The last time we met you were teetotal. Has the struggle finally got to you.

I havn't always been teetotal old friend,I drank orange juice for some time due to the medication I was taking,I do enjoy a pint of bitter but thats it just a pint or two in a session .I shall be there as from tomorrow lunchtime ,so this is my last posting for a couple of weeks , But not on saturday as I have a meeting with some people who have had Close encounters in clacton/east coast area ,As you know a passionate pastime of mine.

Lovely stuff you are Ignorant to say the least. The people involved in 7/7 did not represent the vast majority of their community,so why would I demonstrate against 4 misguided souls ? The issue on most demonstrations I attend is to protest against Yankie led governments and fascist policing ,I was proud to stand at the gates of grunwick all those years ago , All because the management there wouldnt accept a trade union.Arthur scargill backed the cause with the N U M he and anne regularly visited to keep up the spirits, I proudly stood with bruce kent at the gates of greenham common and took part in the total surround of that place. Neil & glenys kinnock and peter tatchell stood a few yards from me ,What an event that was,I have been out side south africa house on many occasions ,And was on the very march when Blair Peach got his. I proudly marched with the miners in the struggle with old mother thatcher,I took part in the poll tax riots , The march against American Imperialism ,Various anti war demo's & nuclear disarmerment. So you see I only go on demo's that are for worth while causes . And yourself ? L/s who just criticises from a keyboard . Do something to be proud of for once in your life.

[Gazza]

Quote:

Man From Mars said:
..Arthur scargill.....bruce kent.....Neil & glenys kinnock and peter tatchell....Blair Peach ....

Blimey what a dream team that is!
At least they produced some comical moments on the news in their time I suppose, the best has to be Scargill being frogmarched away in that baseball cap <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laughuncontrollable.gif" alt="" /> what an ar$e!

[Gazza]

Quote:

Man From Mars said:
...and peter tatchell stood a few yards from me....

Not sure I would brag about that MFM.

A few yards? braver man than me! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" />

[lovely stuff]

MFM.Why feel proud about being a Left wing agitator,who hates his own country,its people ,its traditions,and its history???

 

Whilst you were out at Greenham with an assortment of spikey haired women and middle class old biddies.The rest of the country were working hard to keep this country going.Anyway,surely you proudest moment must have been setting up camp with Swampy and Kermit Dave??

 

Sorry to say this MFM (because i don't know you),but you're probably just a drop-out mis-fit,(who like the waster who was moved on from Parliament square) is just directing all his inner anger and frustation at anyone or anything who reperesent Power,Disipline or The Establishment.Freud would have a field day with you.

 

PS..No surprise to see that the RMT are planning a strike for the day of the England/Sweden game. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/applaus.gif" alt="" />

 

 

[Duke of York]

Why don't you just wind you neck in Lovelystuff? You really should keep some of your opions to yourself I'm afraid. You come accross as a real biggot.

 

I cannot wait for the football season to start again so we'll only have to put up with your ramblings about football. Please, do us all a favour and stop talking utter rubbish, keep your xenophobic, right-wing and Thatcherite views to yourself.

[lovely stuff]

Ah..Flushed out another 'pinko' <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 

 

Seriously though.If certain people stop posting hardline Leftwing propaganda,i'll happily refrain from putting across my own 'populist' views.If you look back, you'll see i never start or instigate any political discussion on here,i only respond.My views are certainly not far right wing or xenophobic in any way.That arguement is old hat.It doesn't wash anymore.Political correctness is dead.The Left have over abused it.For too longer the rabid Left has thrown around cheap and pathetic words like Racist/Xenophobe as a tool to silence rational and reasonable debate by the decent centre-ground majority in this country.

 

I hate extremism of any form .From whichever end of the political scale it comes.Thats why i feel the need to respond to people like MFM when he kicks off.

 

How twisted has the political scene become in Britain,when people with centre/middle ground political views are accused of being far Right wing. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

 

 

 

[Badger]

Are the last few posts for club or country? I'm confused....

[Gazza]

Quote:

Duke of York said:
..... Please, do us all a favour and stop talking utter rubbish, keep your xenophobic, right-wing and Thatcherite views to yourself.

Easy Duke, Is the man not allowed the freedom to express his own thoughts then?
Im convinced MFM is a wind up..... isnt he?
Surely anyone who mentions Scargill, Bruce Kent & Peter Tatchell in the same post has to be!

Hey Duke do you work for the RMT? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" />

[The Horse'sMouth]

Arthur Scargill was a clairvoyant! He predicted that Maggie would kill off the British coal industry and he was right.

 

Can't see how anybody can really criticise Bruce Kent.

 

Some of Peter Tatchell's tactics leave a little to be desired but he speaks a lot of sense in between some total rubbish.

 

I must admit LS you do talk some right wing rubbish. I too went on marches for the miners. I also was a flying picket outside the News International plant in Wapping. I also went on anti aparteid marches and etc. Admitted I was a lot younger then. I'm very proud to be English but I also like to think it can be a better place. Not the country of 3 million unemployed and rich yuppies it was under the Tories.

 

Oh yes LS I was also working at the same time so I was keeping the country goin!!!

 

Going back to the original thread its club everytime for me. I read an article in one of the papers the other day which said that the World Cup is to real football fan what Xmas is to an alcoholic a right pain in the back side. With people who know absolutely nowt about football trying to tell you what they think about football.

 

One thing that is really getting on my nerves is flags from cars. It doesnt prove you are patriotic. All it proves is you have been to Tesco or Halfords.

[Steph]

LS Try reading something intelligent for a change.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1796039,00.html

 

Focus particularly on the "Or any of the 872 people arrested under the Terrorism Act up to September 30 last year and not convicted. Only 23 arrests have led to a conviction."

 

That is 849 people detained by the state that you work for "to keep the country going". Be aware, LS, that your freedoms and liberty which you find so precious are gradually being lost because of some "Christian Crusade" being hidden under the cloak of keeping us safe.

 

When they come for you there will be nobody left to speak for you!

[Steph]

Ah here comes that guilt by association which you were peddling earlier,

 

"Asad Rehman, chair of Newham Monitoring Project, said both men had also been "smeared" by the media. He said claims that Mr Koyair attended an extremist demonstration and that both have criminal records are untrue."

 

So what is it this family were doing wrong,

 

"He said he condemned violence of any sort. "Violence is not in my nature. It is not in my religion. Islam has got nothing to do with that. Islam is peace. The word Islam means peace."

 

His brother, a supermarket worker, said the entire family was brutalised. "They tried to murder my brother. There were about three officers carrying guns surrounding me and pointing them at me. I saw my mum coming out shouting and screaming 'my son, my son'. I kept shouting and screaming to the officers 'please tell me if my family is OK?' They would not answer me."

 

He said his family had at one time backed his attempt to become a police community support officer, but such a thing was now unthinkable. "They don't want me to be associated with the police. My mum and dad don't trust the police any more.""

[lovely stuff]

Steph .Were you being ironic when you said 'Try reading something intelligent',and then posting a link to The Guardian? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> That would be the last place i would expect to find it.

 

Steph.You've been reading their nonsense for years,and you've come to the conclusion that Anti-Terrorism measures are simply a 'Christian crusade'.The good 'ol conspiracy theory.Very intelligent <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/doah.gif" alt="" />

 

Also,we all know why so few arrests end in conviction.Because people like yourself and the judiciary have ensured that the burden of proof needed is so high, as to nullify the chance of conviction in the vast majority of case (both anti-terrorist and in general).Take the Ricin plot in Wood Green a few years back.Only one of the men was ever convicted,the rest were aquited.

 

THM..you said: 'I must admit LS you do talk some right wing rubbish.'

 

I think the Left must look inwards at themselves,if they truely believe that Populist/majority centre-ground political views are 'Right-wing rubbish.'

 

 

 

NOW LETS GET BACK ON TOPIC - CLUB OR COUNTRY?

[MbrunoB]

English and proud of it by birth but Enfield Town by choice is all that I need to say. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Mr Happy]

For England to win the World Cup I would even accept relegation for Town! At least the ESL forum is more fun!!!!!

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" />

[Jim Cunneen]

lovely stuff said:

Also,we all know why so few arrests end in conviction.Because people like yourself and the judiciary have ensured that the burden of proof needed is so high, as to nullify the chance of conviction in the vast majority of case (both anti-terrorist and in general)

 

Last comment from me ( actually first and last..)

 

I have refrained up to now but cant let this go...

 

THe burden of proof needs to be high so that innocent people are not just locked away. It has happened far too many people in the past and is still happening!

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/icon_smokin.gif" alt="" />

[BladeRunner]

looks like you have a fortnight off from MFM ,Wait til the subject of extra terrestrials crops up . Now thats more interesting <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ufo.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/sleeping.gif" alt="" />