O/T Formula 1 - Cheat or no cheat ?

[Cookie]

Michael Schumacher was stripped of pole position for the Monaco Grand Prix on Saturday night after race stewards found him guilty of sabotaging Fernando Alonso's flying lap in qualifying.

 

World champion Alonso was racing towards pole position in the dying seconds when Schumacher, holding top spot at the time, ran wide and parked his Ferrari at the penultimate corner.

 

That brought out the yellow flags, obliging Alonso to slow and ruin his fast lap, as well as gaining the attention of stewards, who took nearly eight hours to reach a decision.

 

They concluded Schumacher "deliberately stopped his car on the circuit" and stripped him of all his lap times, condemning him to start at the back of the grid.

 

That gifts pole position to Alonso while Mark Webber starts alongside on the front row for Williams.

 

Schumacher, who faked a spin at Silverstone two years ago to manipulate qualifying, reacted with apparent surprise when asked whether his accident had been deliberate.

 

The German's sportsmanship has been questioned before, notably when he ran Damon Hill off the road to win the 1994 world title and when the FIA stripped him of his 1997 points for attempting a similar stunt on Jacques Villeneuve.

 

But he protested his innocence and claimed he genuinely "ran out of road", despite seeming to guide his car towards the wall, where he was then unable to resume his lap.

 

The seven-time world champion said: "Only the man who is sitting in the car knows what is going on. Only if you see all the data and have all the information can you make a fair judgement.

 

"If I am guilty is because I am too fast and I made a mistake - I am guilty of that but I don't think I am guilty of anything else."

 

Even before the stewards' decision, Renault boss Flavio Briatore had no doubt Schumacher's incident had been deliberate, saying: "I think he is taking everyone for a ride.

 

"Someone who was seven-times a world champion wants us to believe that he didn't do it on purpose - it's fairyland. And given that we are not Snow White and Seven Dwarves I think that what he did was unsporting and against everything.

 

"It's really astonishing what he did. Incredible."

 

Alonso diplomatically refused to be drawn on his view of the incident, saying only: "I have my opinion and I don't tell opinions here."

 

Schumacher's punishment has lifted McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen to third, with team-mate Juan Pablo Montoya fourth, courtesy of another penalty, imposed earlier on Saturday on Giancarlo Fisichella.

 

Renault's Giancarlo Fisichella set the fifth fastest time but he was punished after the session for holding up David Coulthard. He lost his fastest three laps and will start ninth.

 

Rubens Barrichello is fifth with Toyota's Jarno Trulli up to sixth.

 

Red Bull driver Coulthard qualified in the top 10 for the first time this season after continuing his promising practice form. The Scotsman starts seventh for Red Bull, despite being balked by Fisichella.

 

He is the top Briton for once after Jenson Button registered his worst qualifying display of the season and will start 13th for Honda.

[Cookie]

Sounds like "cheating" to me!

[Gate Watcher]

It looked a bit deliberate to me. I think it was the right thing to put him to the back of the grid. Thought Schumacher looked a bit sheepish in the press conference afterwards.

[dave bull]

It looked delibrate to me too . He looked very uncomfortable at the press conference . One cheat too many over the years .

[Gringo]

What makes me laugh is Renault gaffer slaging him off. When Shuey done it to Hill he said nothing as he was driving for Renault.

[JeremyJacobs]

Precisely.

[TonyM]

What a race,one of the best imo,if SCM had cheated,then he should think again next time round because the way he drove today if he was 2nd on the grid he would have won.

[blueblood]

I would class Schumi along side trottie in some respects. Both are WINNERS, Neither likes loosing and as Trottie said drawing is worse than losing.

[Frankie100]

But Trottie is no cheat.

Best memory of Schumacher is his failure to take the first corner in a British Grand Prix and going straight into a wall breaking both his legs.

 

I'm one of those who never forgave him over the Damon Hill incident like I will never forgive Maradona's Hand of God claim. (The fact he is a drug addict proves he could never be the best football in the history of the game)

[Graeme H]

Hear hear Frankie - most winners have a dark side - the true champions are those whose talent wins the day.

[I am Spartacus]

Ah was it talent or a dive from Gerrard? Come to think of it show pony JC also had talent or dive a minute before.

 

Strange when its cheating or gamesmanship depending on wether it's for you or against you.

 

 

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/argue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/diskussion.gif" alt="" />

[Gate Watcher]

If other teams dive against us then I think it is only fair. Boot on the other foot I am sure we would have seen a dive from Hungary. It was a poor challenge and even worse penalty.

[Cookie]

THe guy never touched him for him to fall over. However,having said that the intention was there for a second & though the defender backed out of the challenge at the last second he had done enough for Gerrard to fall over in anticipation of the tackle.Gerrard was also probably concerned about getting an injury through it. It wasnt really a penalty but no blame can really be attached to Gerrard for falling over & subsequently getting the decision from the ref.A bit of gamesmanship I suppose but the intent was there from the defender despite him opting out at the last second.A fair decision I suppose despite it not being clear-cut.

[I am Spartacus]

Taking your conclusions and observations on intent of comitting a foul being as guilty as actually committing one. Then should not Jackie Charlton or Chopper Harris have been sent off as they stepped on the pitch?

[Cookie]

NO!

[Cookie]

If you kick out at an opponent & do not make contact it is an offence in the same way as if connection had been made.If a player strikes out at a player yet does not connect it is deemed as being equal to a strike that DOES connect.Both bring the same punishment.Too many times refs overlook that in cases of non-connection.But you didnt need telling that did you. Common knowledge!

[Chris1]

If dives like that get awarded against us in the World Cup proper we will all be pissed off.

 

Diving should be stamped out of football by the use of retrospective footage. If a few big names (Drogba, Gerrard, Owen) were banned for a year or so it would soon stop.

[blueblood]

Surly Graeme his talent has shown through. I do not know any footballer who doesnt cheat(with possible exception of Sir Stanly Mathews, Bobby Charlton or Gary lineker. No disrespect meant but, i am sure our beloved new leader as left a leg in, nudged an opponent in the back or brought someone down who was clear through. What amazed me was the way Mr "squeaky clean" Briatore rip into MS. Talk about Stones and glass windows. Schumi's big mistake was he should have spun it at the hair pin or the chicane. For this reason alone i am sure he is glad he did it. You sort out who your true friends are. In soccer again surly Gerrard should pick up a ban for cheating, following the logic through he should not play for England again, what he admitted to has is a bad example to our kids, Steven Gerard does it so why cant I. So whats the difference bettween Schumacher and Gerrard.

[TonyM]

Whats the difference between blueblood and Tony M,blueblood can get a cable through a wall,LOL. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/top.gif" alt="" />

[hangthedj]

LOL! When I walked in and heard random swearing every couple of seconds,I thought it was Melvin fixing the aerial!