Good-bye Clarence Park [No.1].

[JKiF]

SO

does anyone off here believe it will happen?....

[Rob_the_Saint]

Not in the 'green belt', no.

 

What about the old OA's playing fields, not a lot happening there.

[AFF]

That land on King Harry Lane is owned by the Earl of Verulam, Robinho, and will almost certainly be redeveloped for residential purposes in due course.

 

Your response is a little cryptic, Rob. Are you saying that you can see a relocation to a new stadium withing, say, 5 years?

[Davymac55]

Clearly there are many unresolved issues here which we as mere supporters of the club will no doubt continue to be kept in the dark about. However, you do not have to be an astute business person to see that there is no way, no matter the success, or where we play locally , we will fill a 10k stadium when the biggest crowd I have experienced at Clarence Park is 1500 or so(versus Aldershot-half of them away fans). Fans are not kept away by a lack of facilites at Clarence Park. St Albans is a commuter town( really?) and the proximity to London( and now Watford) means that more people travel into London to watch teams than will ever come to see the Saints-until we are playing at a very much higher level i.e Championship or better. So-I,ll get to my point- why the expense of a larger stadium for a small nuber of fans to rattle around in? Until we get 2500-3000 fans on a regular basis we will be unable to move into and maintain a larger stadium. We can't even afford to keep a reasonable squad- smallest in the Conference, still part-time. So what comes first? A big new stadium? Maybe not. Thoughts?

[Canary Saint]

I've been supporting City since the sixties and talk of a new ground keeps coming up on regular basis and it always comes to nothing. The simple reason for this being the lack of will and money.

 

Maybe now that we've reached the dizzy heights of the Conference the will might now be there - however as already pointed out, can City get the crowds to justify a bigger ground.

 

As for money - if anybody thinks the council will 'chip in' they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Maybe a builder could build the ground for 'free' if they can tack it on the back of a big development. Again I wouldn't hold my breath even if the planning issues can be got over.

 

The move to Hatfield is new idea but who would pay for it ? Surely the millions this would cost would be better spent on improving CP.

 

I'm not sure where Gibbo is coming from - but then I've never been a 'blue sky thinker' the clouds keep getting in the way !

 

Oh hum - here we go <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[AFF]

As Gibbo has pointed out in his discussions with the local press over tha past few weeks, the cost of construction of a new stadium can be funded from the profits that might be made by additional development on the remainder of the selected site. Most football club re-locations are funded in this fashion, [or by the sale of an existing facility which has greater value for an alternative use, of course].

 

However, in these cases, for that objective to be within reach, the active support of the Local, Regional, and often National Planning Authorities will be required to permit such developmemt on land which could not be developed for that purpose without the presence of the new ground. Only on this basis can the land be acquired at a 'low' price, and for the increased value of the proposed residential or commertcial use adjoining to permit sufficient 'profit' to be generated.

 

If the local planning authority are paying only lip-service to the outline concept of a relocation, it isn't going to happen.

 

That's the first issue, but only the first.

 

The second is the generation of sufficient future finance to fund the continuation of the club. I have no knowledge whatsoever of the financial position of the club today, but I would guess that the total cost to the owners, William Verry Ltd, in the four years since they rescued the club from Harding is something in the range £4-500,000. Of that, the 'operating loss', or sponsorship required, however it is viewed by Verrys, is at something in the range of £30-50,000 over each of the last two seasons. These are no more than guesses, of course.

 

The only reference to future funding has been bigger gates and the attraction of new commercial sponsorship.

 

And I assume that the cost to the club of simply keeping a new stadium available to be open for business, at whatever level of the pyramid that we play in, is likely to be significantly higher than the same costs at Clarence Park.

 

It would be interesting to have confirmation whether, according to current criteria, additional works are required to Clarence Park to maintain our position in the Conference Nationale, and whether the cost of those works, if any, are a realistic target.

 

I'm not saying that Gibbo should abandon his efforts to re-locate from t'Park here, but it would be good to have a better understanding of the overall game-plan.

[Canary Saint]

Quote:

AFF said:

I'm not saying that Gibbo should abandon his efforts to re-locate from t'Park here, but it would be good to have a better understanding of the overall game-plan.

Couldn't agree more AFF

Personally I think stability at a realistic level of football should be the long term goal for whoever controls the future of the club.

[AFF]

Hmmnnn. "Stability". "Consolidation". Hmmnnn.

 

These are interesting times. My knowledge of proper League football is limited to The Mighty Shrimpers from a number of years ago which gives no guidance for the future of St Albans City.

 

If we look at Stevenage, however, I understand that the Boro' have 15 [non-playing] full-time employees at Broadhall Way. Yep. That's 15. We have 1 [who, no doubt, does the work of 10, but not 15!]. They have a thriving Youth set-up, as well as their own PASE involvement. Their Under 17s played their home matches at Clarence Park on Sunday mornings last season, for Heaven's sake. We don't have a Yoof set-up. Reserves. Hmmnnn.

 

They play in a stadium with a capacity of 7,100 which is capable of further expansion if required. Are they 'ready for League football'? I don't know enough about the administration up the road but my answer, without reservation, is yes.

 

Stevenage Boro' have 23 different 'income streams' apparently, and I wish I knew a lot more about the way the place is structured and run for comparison with us and to provide something of a 'target'.

 

One thing is for sure. They play in the same League as us and 2500 pairs of eyes, or whatever it is, are directed towards the green bit on a Saturday afternoon. At Clarence Park, in our first season in the Conference Nationale, half that number, say, maybe two thirds, will be directed towards the pitch on match days, but the differences between the two clubs behind the scenes is Huge. Huger than a simple comparison of attendances.

 

And Huger than any comparison of the two stadiums.

 

Interesting times.

[AFF]

I have taken the liberty of copying this Statement from Gibbo issued to the Official web-site over the week-end [see! I guessed that he comes on here from time to time. - JKiF, Rob the Saint, Laz & Earthman: It's a good jopb he doesn't know who you are!!]

 

(Courtesy: www.sacfc.co.uk):

 

Chairman John Gibson gives his thoughts on the Saints proposed move to a new football stadium.

 

"There has been much said in the press recently about the possibility of moving to a new stadium. A great deal of the comment has been speculation and I will try to limit this statement to a few simple points, as there appears to be much interest from our supporters, judging by the number of postings on the message board :-

1) The Club cannot progress any further unless we have a new stadium. The current stadium cannot be improved sufficiently because of it's age and the infrastructure around the ground and particularly the lack of parking.

2) Moving ground is not something new and proposals have been in existence for over 10 years.

3) We currently cannot spend too much money on ground improvements as quite simply, it will be wasted if we move.

4) We can no longer satisfy the likes of Arsenal Ladies or Watford Reserves who have both been unhappy with the facilities on offer and this has lost us valuable potential income, as they have chosen to play elsewhere.

5) Several Planning Consultants have prepared reports over the years and they have identified two or three prime sites around the City, all of which have their pro's and con's.

6) Discussions have taken place with a variety of people who have pledged their support and despite any intimation to the contrary, no one has been negative from The Council albeit everyone has different priorities, duties and responsibilities, which clearly need to be understood.

7) The Football Club would like a new stadium and we believe with a fair wind this is achievable. No one would like to see the club stagnate or go backwards, so moving forward is the only way. If a target of 3/4 years is not achievable, then it is not the end of the world.

In conclusion, all we want is the support to fuel our desire, our ambition and our hard work. Without the enthusiasm the club is nothing and we cannot allow anyone to pour cold water over burning ambition !"

[Laz]

Lack of parking? Does anyone have a photo of the car park at the station, please?

[MiddxSaint]

What season did Watford Reserves play at Clarence Park (not counting Herts Senior Cup ties)?

[AFF]

They haven't, MiddxSaint.

 

Ordinarily, it is not appropriate to try to interpret someone else's remarks but as Gibbo doesn't come on here, I can only assume that he means that our club has offered Clarence Park to Watford FC as a venue for Watford Reserves, but the offer has been rejected as they "are unhappy with the facilities", in the same way that Arsenal Ladies were "unhappy with the facilities" after a season with us a couple of years ago, presumably. Gibbo's expression "we can no longer satisfy ...Watford Reserves..." may, inadvertently, mislead. I assume that Arsenal ladies now play at the Woood. Does anyone know where Watford Reserves play?

 

Gibbo's statement is brief, of course, and it's not appropriate to speculate further, but I wonder which of our facilities they were each unhappy with.

 

[Offer 'em jumpers for goalposts and see what they think, is my view. Overpaid bunch[es] of superstars.]

[AFF]

Watford Reserves also play at The Woood, apparently.

[Canary Saint]

Have never had the pleasure of Wood's new(ish) ground - are the facilities really that much better than CP ?

 

Gibbo's a top bloke and hauled us from the mire etc................but !

 

I can't believe that lashings of money (but less than the cost of a new stadium) would not cure all the problems at CP - rather like they did at Newcastle Utd's ground. Maybe the real problem is the fact that the ground belongs to the council (or to put it another way the people of St Albans)

[AFF]

I'm very pleased to say that far greater minds than mine will have applied themselves to this issue, as I am perplexed.

 

Fortress Clarence Park has a green bit in the middle, and so will the new Wilfred Minter De Havilland Superdome. CP has changing rooms for two teams and Officials with a treatment room etc. A main stand [of timber construction, admittedly] one covered terrace, two open terraces. That lot will all be the same at the new place.

 

So what does t'Park 'lack'?

 

A car park on site. Hmmmnn. Will a car park double the attendances? Hmmmnn, I don't think so.

 

A large[r] clubhouse. Football League grounds don't have clubhouses in the same fashion as Non League clubs. Do we really see a social function for fans every week? Every fortnight? I wonder whether those days are gone from our level of football.

 

A large[r] boardroom & hospitality suite etc. Hmmnn. I see that we have a new Commercial Manager [good luck to him from me, by the way] who will welcome the new, larger space to sell, no doubt.

 

The immediate thought is that these things could not be created at t'Park, but I wonder. The size of the boardromm could be doubled, couldn't it? [We could find somewhere else for Hardings pile of sand]. Could the clubhouse be extended on two levels?

 

I think to myself that it would be nice to have these things, but at what cost? The cost of a new stadiunm is going to be, what, £3-4 million plus the cost of the land.

 

If Gibbo reads this by the way, please don't mis-read these musings as the "pouring of cold water on burning ambition". I am truly intrigued. In the strictest confidence, I am the one with the dyed blond hair, furry jackets and dress generally in a fashion that you may consider strange. I prefer to maintain my anonymity on here, so please respect that. Don't give 'em your name. Pike.

[Maldini66]

Morning AFF,

Clarence park for all it's plus points is probably not suitable for Conference football without some major refurbishing to the main stand

and the other terraces, this of course costs money so perhaps a move to a council funded new stadium would suit the future needs of the club.

I recently played golf next to Harlow's new stadium which is near completion and I have to say it looked very impressive.

Whatever the board decide I am sure it will be in the best interests of the club and it's fans.

[AFF]

Buongorno, Mancini, bello. Ciaou.

 

'Not suitable for Conference football'? It has restricted vision because of the wooden columns at the front, of course, but I guess it can seat 650 or so. It clearly meets Conference requirements, however.

 

If it were t be replaced, what else is lacking at the Fortress?

[Maldini66]

Sorry AFF

Just my view long term that the club would need to invest heavily in redeveloping The fortress or move to a new stadium in the area, don't get me wrong having played in front of six thousand at the park it has a special place in my memory and a fantastic atmosphere, but if the saints are to compete at that level and above realistically the park is just not capable of receiving large away crowds every other week.

[AFF]

Don't apologise for a moment, M. You are not 'disagreeing' with me at all. I am simply seeking views to assist my own contemplation of the issue. It's a metaphysical thing.

 

The attendance was 3200 or whatever at Stevenage for the play-off final, a modern ground which has a capacity of 7,200. Yet the kick-off was delayed for 15 minutes to allow people to get in. Why was that? The only answer I have is that the good people of St Albans and Histon aren't used to attending football matches with their team with that many others and left it too late!

 

You say that we would need to invest heavily at t'Park to cope. How much is 'heavily', I wonder? We might raise the £3/4 million to build the thing from land dealings outlined in Chapter 2 of the Big Book of negotiating Super-Duper Deals but .... but.... but....

 

Hmmmmnnn.

[Maldini66]

Quote:

AFF said:
Don't apologise for a moment, M. You are not 'disagreeing' with me at all. I am simply seeking views to assist my own contemplation of the issue. It's a metaphysical thing.

The attendance was 3200 or whatever at Stevenage for the play-off final, a modern ground which has a capacity of 7,200. Yet the kick-off was delayed for 15 minutes to allow people to get in. Why was that? The only answer I have is that the good people of St Albans and Histon aren't used to attending football matches with their team with that many others and left it too late!

You say that we would need to invest heavily at t'Park to cope. How much is 'heavily', I wonder? We might raise the £3/4 million to build the thing from land dealings outlined in Chapter 2 of the Big Book of negotiating Super-Duper Deals but .... but.... but....

Hmmmmnnn.

I was at the play off final and was very impressed with the ground at Stevenage, having played there in front of one man and his dog many moons ago it just shows you what you can achieve with the backing of your local council.
If the club decide to stay at the fortress they need to redevelop the stand incorporating new dressing rooms,boardroom and clubhouse as well as covering the rest of the terracing to enclose the ground.By extending the clubhouse they could increase the money that comes into the club which could benefit the playing budget etc
swings and roundabouts I know.