Lee Harding - A Split Involvement

[Charlie Farnsbarnes]

It would appear that Lee Harding is an invited co-opted member of Enfield Town's ETSS(Enfield Town Supporters Society) Ground Committee to establish a ground for ETFC in the Borough of Enfield and deal with issues arising from the groundshare with Brimsdown Rovers. It is my understanding that the Enfield Town Supporters Society owns Enfield Town FC but I maybe mistaken. There certainly seems to be some form of split involvement here. Can anyone confirm if a director of one non-league football club is allowed to have an involvement in another, albeit one in a feeder league to the other? I would have thought it contravened league regulations but what do I know?<p>The website address is http://www.enfieldtown.20fr.com/clubinfo.htm<p>

<img src="graemlins/shrug.gif" border="0" alt="[shrug]" /><p>[ 23 January 2002: This message was edited by: Charlie Farnsbarnes ]</p>

[AFF]

I can't answer your question Charlie, and I am really not that interested. <p>As a student of these things Charlie, you might be interested to hear that I have aquired a copy of the Memorandum and Articles of Association and Rules of The Isthmian Football League as a little light bedtime reading. Fascinating stuff it is, too.<p>I'll share Rule 14 with you:<p>MISCONDUCT OF CLUBS, OFFICIALS, PLAYERS.<p>"Any person found guilty of bringing the League into disrepute and any Club official or member proved guilty of misconduct (as defined by the Management Committee) or of attempting to induce a player of another Club to join his own Club shall be liable to such a penalty as the Management Committee may deem appropriate."<p>So. The Management Committee can define misconduct and the Management Committee can impose such penalty as they think fit. Phew. The F.A. have a similar rule, I gather.

Interesting that. If someone is really naughty, he/she could be barred from holding office at any football club. Out of idle curiousity, I wonder what the process is to bring something before the Management Committee? Maybe it's in the next chapter. One for another day, perhaps.<p>If I was Brimsdown Rovers, I wouldn't bother with the expense of typing out a new name card for a seat in the Directors stand. [Do they have a stand, by the way? Do they have seats?]

[Laz]

It seems Enfield Town have found a messiah! Has anyone been there. They are playing Leyton (another meaningless Essex League side) on Saturday at noon. I wonder if any Saints fans are going; EFM perhaps.

[AFF]

Inciting violence against ones-self? Isn't that sado-maso something or other?

[Ron Merlin]

I wouldn't put anything past Papa Lazarou... whatever you do, don't let HIM anywhere near your club. Once bitten...<p>BTW Tone, I'd say more people attend ETFC than EFC, and we all know why, don't we?<p>I can confirm that the Enfield Town Supporters' Society does own and control ETFC. We are a co-operative and vote on everything, including the colour of the chairman's underpants. Democracy in action. <p>Lee is a member of the ETFCSS and was co-opted onto the ground committee. I don't know if this contravenes league rules, though.<p>Good luck surviving.<p>Hello Daaave! You're MY club now!

[Laz]

AFF, I suggest you "talk" to Charlie and review your use of reflective pronouns once you are better imformed.

[Guest]

A couple of questions need to be answered I think! <p>1. For what reason did Enfield Town FC co-opt Harding onto their ground committee. Did they think they could wangle a groundshare out of him at Clarence Park so they could get back in the Ryman League?<p>2. Were ETFC not formed by disillusioned supporters of Enfield F.C who had been dismantled single-handed by their Chairman.

Why then do they then elect to one of their committees, the Chairman and major shareholder of another Club who is responsible for doing the same to that Club as what Mr Lazarou did to theirs. <p>A case of blatant hypocrisy if ever I saw one!

[Guest]

I don't want to look for conspiracies but how can someone with Harding's divided loyalties be trusted. He must realise that if the Saints (heaven forbid) fold the council will be duty bound to seek new tenants at the earliest opportunity. Anybody know of any homeless clubs? Lets hope a consortium can be found. Let's be honest any of the houses in York Road is worth more than the club's debts. Surely someone can dip their hands in their pockets of is St. Albans still a haven for glory hunters and Spurs fans?

[Mr_X]

G.Q<p>You can rest assured that Enfield Town have no desire to use Clarence Park or indeed any ground outside of the borough of Enfield. If we wanted to play outside of the borough we would have stayed and rotted at Boreham Wood with Papa Laz.<p>Regardless of what else Lee Harding has done to your club, he has built a Conference graded ground. As far as I'm aware, no other member of our trust has any experience of building a football ground. Would you therefore not say it was sensible of our committee to seek his (free) advice. Lee is not a member of the Executive Commitee of the Supporters Society and therfore has no more influence over the club than any other member of the trust.<p>On a similar subject, have the supporters of SACFC not considered forming a Supporters Trust along the lines of Enfield Town? It would give you some focus and a pool of talent/skills to call upon. It would also give you a better chance of raising some cash.

I'm sure that Supporters Direct or the Board of Enfield Town would be happy to offer some advice.

[AFF]

Thank you for your interest Mr.X.

For my part, in answer to the points you kindly made:

a]. Noted.

b]. Noted.

c]. Really? Who told you that?

d]. No.

e]. Don't kid yourself.

f]. Yes.

g]. Noted.

h]. Noted.

i]. I don't think so.<p>Many thanks for your interest.

[Steph]

AFF<p>Very constructive!<p>I went to see Enfield V St Albans earlier this season and it was heartbreaking to see how low two top flight non league sides had sunk. How many were in the stadium? There appeared to be more Enfield fans than St Albans and there were less than 20 of them. <p>I have read this board and all I see are moaning minnies who cant be bothered to get of their arses to save a great club. <p>I am a member of Enfield Town Supporters Society and make a regular monthly contribution to the club. When I supported Enfield there were offers on the Table to Papa for him to get out but he wouldn't let go of the reins. As far as I can see Lee has attempted to get out of St Albans but the supporters are too busy making futile points to actually get out and save the club. <p>Well if St Albans do go down the drain, and I sincerely hope they do not, it will be due to the inactivity, naivity and selfishness of the people such as the posters on this board. The club and you deserve each other.

[HelenC]

Excuse me? We would rather people like you dont come on our board unless you actually have some suggestions as to what us 'moaning minnies' should do. I would do anything to save this club but unfotunately circumstances permit otherwise. The supporters themselves have been trying to help (a little late mindyou but better late then never!), but in our position it is impossible to raise that sort of cash. Obvioulsy though, you think we should be something else. Care to enlighten us? <p>Lee has left us in a very difficult situation. How exactly would you say he has 'attempted to get out of St.Albans?' I mean its not the Crystal Maze! Its very easy to get out of and if you want to blame the supporters for him not going, then your barking up the wrong tree.<p> <img src="graemlins/fliege.gif" border="0" alt="" /> <img src="graemlins/fliege.gif" border="0" alt="" />

[Nos]

Another of your stupid aliases Mr Harding?<p> <img src="graemlins/smilie7.gif" border="0" alt="[smilie7]" /><p>[ 26 January 2002: This message was edited by: Nostradamus ]</p>

[Steph]

Helen C<p>Please C Mr X's comment and take advantage of the offer made. Get in touch with some of the committee at ETFC. They will be pleased to help and, if you dont like to go to another non league club try, I think it was Northampton or even Brighton.<p>"On a similar subject, have the supporters of SACFC not considered forming a Supporters Trust along the lines of Enfield Town? It would give you some focus and a pool of talent/skills to call upon. It would also give you a better chance of raising some cash.

I'm sure that Supporters Direct or the Board of Enfield Town would be happy to offer some advice".

[Rob_the_Saint]

Steph<p>Thanks for your input but surely we have two different situations here.<p>Enfield, if I'm not mistaken, were never in danger of going bust, the supporters simply upped-sticks and went off to form their own club because they didn't like what the Chairman was up to.<p>We, on the other hand, are desperately trying to save this great club as it is, we don't want to be watching park football on some muddy playing field on the outskirts of St Albans thank you.<p>Contrary to what it appears on here, serious efforts are being made to come up with a rescue plan. If we come across as 'moaning minnies' it is because of the lack of information, lies and half-truths that we've had to endure over the last eighteen months. OK we've been complacent in the past and mistakes have been made but I think 'those in the know' now realise the task that is in front of them. A Supporters Society is a good idea but we're not going to get it off the ground in four weeks. If we get through February 20th unscathed it is definitely worh pursuing.<p>Once again, thanks for your suggestions and good luck with the rest of your season, perhaps we'll be playing each other at Clarence Park next season, who knows?

<img src="graemlins/chat.gif" border="0" alt="" />

[Robert G]

Well said Rob, WILL see all you st fans next season at clarence park!

[AFF]

Hi Stephanie.<p>Thanks for your good wishes. <p>I suspect that you are well-meaning but ill-informed and like many well-meaning but ill-informed people, you consider a problem for 5 minutes, listen only to the views of one side, take those at face value and and criticise those who are in the middle of an horrendous situation for not resolving such a simple issue.<p>Supporters Direct is a very helpful organisation and there are a number of existing Trusts around the country from which to learn. As far as your Club is concerned, I have nothing against you. I question your judgement, however.<p>Rob is quite right. The idea of a Trust is something for consideration once we are out of the chaos caused by the latest addition to your Ground Relocation Sub-Committee. I need say no more as, without question, you will find out what it's beenlike here in due course.

[Mr_X]

Rob the Saint/AFF<p>I think that you are very much under-estimating yourselves. <p>Surely you have to try everything to safe your club. What have you got to lose if you guys form a trust and attempt to gain ownership of the club.<p>I doubt very much if a mystery millionaire is going to come out of the woodwork and buy SACFC. Even if one does, you still have no control over YOUR club and what's to say that the same thing won't happen again in three years time?<p>Why not call a public meeting for next week (we got around 150/200 to our first one, more than were attending home games at the time). Get the details in all of the local papers this week and I'm sure that you'll have a similar turn-out. I'd be very surprised if you couldn't raise a least £1000 (a lot less than you need admittedly, but a start) on the night and I'm sure that you'd discover that there'd be many people with the necessary skills (legal/financial/commercial) to help you achieve your goals.<p>I must confess that company insolvency is not my strong point.... but what is the worse that can happen if you form a Ltd company and take over the debts (presuming Lee keeps to his word and writes-off his debts)?<p>Even if it means paying no wages and fielding a park team until the end of the season whilst you negotiate the debts, you should still be far enough ahead of Harrow to not get relegated. This would then give you until the start of next season to get the club back on a more stable footing.<p>I genuinely hope that you can both save your club and retain your RPL status. I'm not saying it will be easy and it may not even be possible but surely you have to explore every avenue? <p>All the best<p>Mr X

[AFF]

Mr X.<p>"Company insolvency is not your strong point"?<p>You're right on that one. <p>Despite the free advertising of our Club in his various Press Releases.....STOP! I've just realised. It's not to save the cost of advertising. He offers it for sale in a Press Release to avoid contravention of the Trade Descriptions Act. Silly me.

Anyway. where was I? The latest addition to your Ground Development Sub-Committee has offered the company for sale for £1 to anyone who will listen for the past 4 months. Do you seriously think that there have been no enquries? Perhaps, just perhaps those who have looked into that offer know where to go for advice in respect of insolvency. Perhaps they know the difference between fact and fiction, myth and reality. Do you seriously think that us country folk have never heard of a Supporters Trust? <p>Oh, by the way. You can add a nought and then some to your £1000 estimate in respect of professional fees. When you have spent that, you will understand the problem that this man has caused that must then be solved.<p>As I said to the other Enfield Town fan. You'll see in due course. Oh yes. I remember. You are the one who said "Regardless of what he has done to your club, he has built a Conference graded ground". Just read that again. P***k.<p>Thanks for your interest.

[Mr_X]

Very constructive AFF.<p>If you manage to take your head out of your a*se for a minute you may realise that the supporters are the only people likely to save your club. You appear to be one of those people who is the first to moan and the last to do anything about it.<p>Your efforts so far appear to be slag of Lee and hope for the best. (Don't get me wrong, he deserves abuse for what he's done... however abuse alone is unlikely to get you out of your plight). Follow the example of Rob The Saint, at least he's trying to make a difference, I may have missed it but I don't recall any constructive comments from yourself.<p>No, I don't know the in's and out's of a CVA or what liability individuals would be under if they took on the debt... do you? How do you know it's not possible for the fans to take over, what enquiries have you made? <p>I agree £1000 is not enough to fund any professional fees (I didn't say it was) however it's £1000 nearer to the total than you currently are. When we tried to buy EFC of off Laz, we experienced a lot of legal fees in respect of the abortive take-over. When the trust membership was asked to make donations towards these the response was outstanding. As I've said previously you don't know what you'll get to you try.<p>I wasn't trying to suggest that you hadn't heard of Supporters Trusts, I was merely suggesting to you that you should contact some of them, either individually or through Supporters Direct. For example, Brighton have put together a very good document on fund-raising (could be very useful in your plight. However if they sent it to you, you'd probably tell them to p*ss off and mind their own business!).