Disappointed

[Bad_Egg]

 

I didn't post on that thread Steph. Well not as Bad Egg I didn't. I certainly never ever said that De Menezes was guilty. I only defended the right for the police to engage in shoot to kill. Despite this tragedy I still do. That is my belief .

 

As for your point that I didn't get my information from anyone that simply is not true. I've done far more research into this particular subject than you think, but that is a subject for a another place and another time. Still your point that we should all be responsible when posting is true, then again anyone who thinks that Bad Egg is for real is as he would say when in character- needs to see a trick cyclist innit

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

Potters Bar Town FC said:

Quote:

Sponsor of Beer said:
I wouldn't be at all surprised if an apology were to feature here, once the dust has settked.

I wouldn't bank on it. On another thread, several ETFC "fans" made some fairly abusive comments about the Brazilian guy who was shot dead on the tube. At the time, they didn't realise he was an innocent guy, but now that they do none of them have yet found the decency to apologise for their comments as I suggested they might like to do.

You might find some kind of official apology from the club, but I hardly think you can expect the individuals concerned to say sorry given the past record on these fora.

Cut out the stirring,PBT.

[lovely stuff]

I was beind the goal for five minutes at the end of the game, and i was suprised by the atmoshere of hatred.It couldn't be heard or felt from the sides ,but close-up it was very un-Town like.Yes, scream, shout and 'slate' the ref and opposing players,BUT make it justified and proportionate.

[The Invisible Man]

It's a difficult judgement: it is question of degree and there are extremes to be avoided, including a non-stop barrage of offensive and/or abusive (not necessarily swearing) shouting or chanting. Conversely, to be totally honest I would not like to see football completely sanitised and end up like the Fast Show sketches (yeah, Soccer!!! Prawn sandwich anyone?) and I would not like to see uniformed Guardians of Taste and Decency prowling round the grounds ensuring that everyone behaves with appropriate middle-class decorum worthy of Lords (oh well played sir!). We have quite enough political correctness and thought-police already.

 

However, it may be difficult if not hypocritical to take any action if, as has been suggested on another thread, officials of the club continually conduct themsevles in a manner that supporters are asked not to, or are punished for. (I must add that I have been to no gam,es this season and only a couple last year). Before any action or sanctions against paying customers is contemplated I would suggest that any such situation be resolved.

[andyetfc]

Dear Blujack.

 

Personal opinion - I am very surprised that some of the 'supporters' do not suffer from panic attacks at our games! The language and conduct from a certain few is very choice and disturbing and they should know better than most that they are doing nothing constructive for the club when they rant, rave and swear at the opposition, officials, and to a lesser extent, the youngsters from St Albans City who were on the far side of the ground.

 

I do not know what the answer is, but it is certainly not helping the club to see 'supporters' run some 20 - 25 yards along the terracing to make their point known to the officials, etc.

 

I actually think it's a bit pathetic as it certainly will not encourage the officials to change their minds and give future decisions in 'our' favour. More often than not, the decsions will go against us.

 

Most people who read the Not the ETFC forum know who I am so if they wish to explain to me on Saturday why they have to use such bad language, then I am sure that I would be willing to listen. However, I can certainly say that although I would listen, I certainly wouldn't accept their reasoning for using such bad language.

 

There you go. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

Banter is one thing. Utter filth is another.

[Fruitbat]

Quote:

andyetfc said:
but it is certainly not helping the club to see 'supporters' run some 20 - 25 yards along the terracing to make their point known to the officials, etc.

Its bin a few years, and Stones, since I ran along the terrace to berate a Ref. Last time I recall was at Dagenham to have a few choice words to Mr Halsey. He recalled the incident when I spoke to him at Baldock when they played Cheshunt. Very surreal conversation, but he bought me a pint, but its OK , I spat in it before I drunk it. That showed him, Huh !

[MbrunoB]

Only one pint? why does he think you have two hands for, well other than making signals to him during games?

[Gazza]

Quote:

I wouldn't bank on it. On another thread, several ETFC "fans" made some fairly abusive comments about the Brazilian guy who was shot dead on the tube. At the time, they didn't realise he was an innocent guy, but now that they do none of them have yet found the decency to apologise for their comments as I suggested they might like to do.

You might find some kind of official apology from the club, but I hardly think you can expect the individuals concerned to say sorry given the past record on these fora.

1. What has that got to do with this thread?

2. As you have mentioned it, I made comments on the said thread, all of which I stand by & make no apology for, they were honest opinions by information given at the time & although it appears the wrong guy was shot, we still dont know the full story, did he run when told to stop?
I too like others on this thread agree with the Police policy of shoot to kill, should I apologise for that?

3. Have we had it confirmed if the guy "WAS" an illegal immagrant?

4. Nice to see his family paying their personal & private respect yesterday.....with a bank of TV cameras & reporters in tow!!
Wonder who paid for their flights over? indeed wonder why they are really here? Nothing to do with compensation is it?

Synic? maybe, realist? Yes.

[Steph]

Yes Gazza!

 

Every club has them!

[Gazza]

Think yourself lucky then!

[Football Man]

Quote:

Gazza said:

1. What has that got to do with this thread?

2. As you have mentioned it, I made comments on the said thread, all of which I stand by & make no apology for, they were honest opinions by information given at the time & although it appears the wrong guy was shot, we still dont know the full story, did he run when told to stop?
I too like others on this thread agree with the Police policy of shoot to kill, should I apologise for that?

3. Have we had it confirmed if the guy "WAS" an illegal immagrant?

4. Nice to see his family paying their personal & private respect yesterday.....with a bank of TV cameras & reporters in tow!!
Wonder who paid for their flights over? indeed wonder why they are really here? Nothing to do with compensation is it?

Synic? maybe, realist? Yes.

1. I was just pointing out that the apology that was hoped for may not be that forthcoming and giving an example of why I felt that. Don't lose sight of the fact that this is not a thread about football itself, it is a thread about the attitudes of football supporters in modern society.

Also, if people feel quite happy about making comments without feeling the need to apologise for them afterwards when they have realised that those comments were made out of context, then it should be no surprise to anybody if a small element don't feel too worried about making abusive and/or vitriolic comments about opposing players, opposing fans, match officials, etc. during matches. Let me say again at this point (as I have done on many, many occasions on these message boards), I am fully aware that we are talking about an extreme minority of people but that extreme minority are looked upon by others as a representation of Enfield Town. This, of course, is a misrepresentation that the vast majority of your club's supporters/members don't deserve and don't need.

2. I agree that they would have been honest opinions based on information assumed to be known at the time. Most people were assuming the guy to be a terrorist and the comments made were related to the hostility felt towards someone thought to be a terrorist. However, when it emerged that the guy wasn't a terrorist, and the information people assumed to be correct turned out to be wrong, the vast majority of the comments made became redundant and completely out of context. All I was effectively saying at the time was that people should look back at their comments in the light of what is now known and consider apologising for the verbal slating of a man they thought to be something he wasn't. I'm not really sure what anyone achieves by making a point of refusing to do so in the circumstances.

3. I don't know the relevance of that question.

Illegal immigrants are clearly a problem in this country but I don't really think that shooting them several times in the head in front of a carriage-load of tube passengers (causing untold, unnecessary stress and trauma of many innocent people in the process) is the way to deal with it! In any case, I don't think the armed police thought to themselves "there's an illegal immigrant, let's chase after him with our guns"!

4. As I understand it, the family's flights were paid for by the government.

They may be here because they feel that visiting the site of their relative's death and trying to picture together what actually happened that day, and how it happened, may help them in some way to bring closure to their grieving. Alternatively, they may just be here as a goodwill gesture by the government in order to maintain relations with the Brazilian authorities. At the end of last season, I was guest of honour at a cup final involving Brazilian FSSC (a team of British-based Brazilians, surprisingly enough!) and was introduced to the Head of the Brazilian Military in Europe. He struck me as a guy not to be messed with and, if he or one of his colleagues has been having a "quiet word" with our government officials, they may have felt it would be good PR to invite the family over. I suspect that grieving for a loved one is the more likely explanation though, as the family wouldn't have come here if they didn't want to.

Difficult question regarding compensation. If he was here illegally, his family wouldn't really be entitled to anything. I suppose it would depend on whether he was only classified as illegal because of a [****!!****]-up or some other red tape beauracracy - something the general public may never be told if it's the case. It probably boils down to whether a goodwill compensation payment should be made given the circumstances.

[AFF]

Just passing through.

 

Your points are well made and well put, PBTFC. Well done.

 

For you Gazza, it is one thing to have an 'honest opinion', spoken at the time. No criticism of that. It is another to acknowledge that, whilst the opinion of the principles involved at the time will have been honestly held, there is no shame in recognising the dreadful mistakes that were made in the specific circumstances and expressing remorse.

[lanceyboyuk]

tottaly agree

[Gazza]

Quote:

....3. I don't know the relevance of that question.

Illegal immigrants are clearly a problem in this country but I don't really think that shooting them several times in the head in front of a carriage-load of tube passengers (causing untold, unnecessary stress and trauma of many innocent people in the process) is the way to deal with it! In any case, I don't think the armed police thought to themselves "there's an illegal immigrant, let's chase after him with our guns"!

4. As I understand it, the family's flights were paid for by the government.

They may be here because they feel that visiting the site of their relative's death and trying to picture together what actually happened that day, and how it happened, may help them in some way to bring closure to their grieving.....

3. It has not been denied he ran, why did he run?
I think we all know why?
My point is if he had been a legal, honest & innocent individual he would probaly still be alive, of course he didnt deserve what happened, but I still find it hard to have any sympathy.

4. Accept that they probaly did want to grieve, personally dont see why they would need to visit Stockwell Station, but if it helps then fine, but surely they would want to do it respectfully without the entourage of press & film crew which they seemed more intrested in playing upto.
Dont see how any amount of compensation can replace a Son or any loved one.

Investigate, issue an apology if needed, take action if warranted against those involved, move on!

[Steph]

"3. It has not been denied he ran, why did he run?"

 

Where did you get your information from. I have not seen a source for this information. There you go spreading rumour and gossip again.

[AFF]

"I think we all know why". WHAT? Speak for yourself

 

He may have run to catch a train, Gazza.

 

There is no evidence that the police issued the correct challenge.

 

There is video footage of the man putting his ticket through the machine thing to gain access to the station, and walking towards the stairs. He stopped to pick up one of thoose free newspapers. So he didn't vault the machines as was originally reported.

 

He was wearing a denim jacket. Not a padded jacket as originally reported.

 

And you "still find it hard to have any sympathy".

 

For the love of Jesus!

[lovely stuff]

The offical enquiy has not been produced yet. It may be a couple of years (and several court cases) before we know the REAL chain of events and what actually did or didn't happen.Part of a report was supposidly leaked to the press.A women has been arrested in regards to that accusation,but 90% of the report has not been seen yet.

The initial reports by eye witnesses and police statements were taken as fact by some members on here, including myself.In my opinion,that was reasonable to do so.If in the course of time,it is proved that the eye witnesses and the police lied,then it should be on THEIR conscience,rather than lose who debated the case in good faith.

[Bad_Egg]

Quote:

Steph said:
"3. It has not been denied he ran, why did he run?"

Where did you get your information from. I have not seen a source for this information. There you go spreading rumour and gossip again.

It hasn't been stated that he didn't run either. Nor has it been proven that he was murdered. Someone mentioned 7 shots were fired...I'll wait until the investigation is finished thanks.

The tabloids reported that he ran. In fact so did the BBC and Sky News. I remember clearly an 'eye-witness' stating that was the chain of events.

[Bad_Egg]

Quote:

AFF said:
"I think we all know why". WHAT? Speak for yourself

He may have run to catch a train, Gazza.

There is no evidence that the police issued the correct challenge.

There is video footage of the man putting his ticket through the machine thing to gain access to the station, and walking towards the stairs. He stopped to pick up one of thoose free newspapers. So he didn't vault the machines as was originally reported.

He was wearing a denim jacket. Not a padded jacket as originally reported.

And you "still find it hard to have any sympathy".

For the love of Jesus!

I haven't seen this video footage, which channel was it screened on?

[Tom S]

All that was in the leak. Until the leak is shown to be wrong it is reasonable to assume that it's accurate. Or does that only apply to leaks or statements that are in the police's favour?