How now Bliar

[pabird]

One for the future, lets remember that Mr Brown has supported every Iraq action by the labour government

[pabird]

Yesterday 98 people were killed in Iraq

81 by bomb and 17 were shot

Just another day?? imagine 98 people that you as an individual know all being killed in a single day (try it, it will be your entire family and friends and then a lot more)

Still our Tony says its time to move on!!!!!!

[pabird]

BLOODIEST VIOLENCE IN IRAQ

28 Aug 2003 - 85 dead

Car bomb at Najaf shrine kills Shia cleric Muhammad Baqr Hakim and many others

1 Feb 2004 - 105 dead

Twin attacks on Kurdish parties' offices in Irbil

2 March 2004 - 140 dead

Suicide bombers attack Shia festival-goers in Karbala and Baghdad

24 June 2004 - 100 dead

Co-ordinated blasts in Mosul and four other cities

28 Feb 2005 - 114 dead

Suicide car bomb hits government jobseekers in Hillah

16 Aug 2005 - 90 dead

Suicide bomber detonates fuel tanker in Musayyib

 

 

And today ? 140 killed and 160 injured

 

Still? lets move on!!!!

Bliar and Bush have found their place in history and the pages are easily found, they are deep red

[pabird]

Strange but no response from all those pink barstewards who defend the worst PM in living memory

[Barry Scott]

yawn yawn yawn

[Martin]

Quote:

pabird said:
Strange but no response from all those pink barstewards who defend the worst PM in living memory

Strange, I thought about a million of those pink barstewards marched against the war.

I assume you use "pink" as a derogatory term for those on the left of the political spectrum. Those who are genuinely leftist never favour war. Blair does not represent the left - he is centre right - straight out of the school of Thatcher. Like all politicians he saw an opportunity and exploited it. The Tories were dying and so he took the opposition party and changed it so it bore only slight differences to the ruling party but made the differences significant enough to warrant getting elected.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Exactly........New Labour is Old Conservatism!

[Barry Scott]

Quote:

AmericanFLEETFANNo1 said:
Exactly........New Labour is Old Conservatism!

Like vanilla coke, two great tastes that taste great together. Or something like that

[Badger]

A few more questions.....

 

How many Iraqi's died per year, on average, from the direct actions of Hussein's government. How does that compare with the number who have died as a result of the direct actions of the occupation forces?

Seriously, I want to know, as I can't find anything for the Hussein's era that gives the figures.

How many of those who have died since the occupation have been as a resulkt of the direct actions of a terrorist group who offer no alternative to the democracy that they attack, and that most of their countrymen wish for?

[Barry Scott]

i think you've got the wrong thread mate. This is pabird's personal crusade to get rid of Blair, and any attempts to see the other side of the story will be met with accusations of being a "bleeding left wing pinko"

[Uncle Urchin]

my views on blair and his acolytes are much aired and I will not go there again in this respect....there is an interesting situation of course developing in Iraq...a natural return to feudal tribalism practised for 2000 years in that area...saddam merely repressed the natural rule of rule (sic) by slautering his own subjects who objected to his autocratic and deeply evil regime...I would have left 'em too it and was against the war but once into it I made my views clear....bomb the place to bits and get the fck out of there (I admit to being slightly biased here as my son was in the forces) because it will be worse when 'democracy' arrives....it is worse and we should get out of there and leave them to it....after the 'infidels' have departed a natural 'desert system' of rule will follow and Iraq will once again take up its place as a third world arab country with a few old missiles and a bunker full of mixamatosis.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

 

they can then blow each other up in complete harmony and no fcker will care...

 

blair will spin it into history and bush will pretend that it never happened whilst he seeks to also pretend that new orleans was an act of god and unavoidable.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[pabird]

I am with you Unc, to others talking of how many Saddam killed are they running league tables in how many a mad dictator killed as opposed to how many "new democracy" is killing

There is no moral right in replacing the killer with a system that kills by the fervour of differing religious factions

[Badger]

I think that was a reply to my question.....

 

I honestly want to know whether or not the number of deaths has increased or decreased since the end of Saddams regime. I also want to know how many have been killed by the occupying forces. Does anyone know where I can find the answers? Or will I be told that it is irrelevant to the point that someone else is making?

 

I also believe that there is no moral right in standing by whilst someone kills and you have it within your power to stop them. Unfortunately this means that people expect to say where I think should be invaded next.

[Barry Scott]

Quote:

Badger said:
Unfortunately this means that people expect to say where I think should be invaded next.

Essex would be a good place to start

[AFF]

Numbers of deaths and casualties published are likely to be more accurate for the period since the two lunatics brought peace and democracy to people of Iraq, Badger. Saddam didn't release too many figures to the Baghdad Evening Standard, but its all propaganda anyway. 'Truth is the first casuality of war' and all that 1st year A level History stuff.

 

I was fiercely and incredulously opposed to the invasion. I exchanged words with Uncle Urchin at the time until he realised that I believed that once 'in', it was clearly important to get the job done and get out as soon as possible.

 

I spotted, without surprise, the absence of rose petals scattered at the feet of 'our boys' and realised, again with incredulity, that the two most dangerous men on the planet didn't actually have any kind of plan to deal with that situation. A small administrative error that anyone could make, I suppose. Particularly when information concerning the likely reaction of the people of Iraq came from an Iraqi 'dissident' living in a flat overlooking Central Park for the previous 15 years, not having set foot in the place during the period of his exile who was standing by to take over as President once Saddam had been overthrown. A fully informed and unbiased source, if ever I saw one.

 

[You couldn't make it up, could ya?]

 

Anyway, where was I? Up until now, I have been of the view that, having created this level of sh!t, 'we' have to try to clear up the mess and pulling out was not an option.

 

However, I have now changed my view. I believe that we should get the hell out of there as fast as possible.

 

That view is unlikely to find favour with Dubbya and Tone as it would leave the region free for the Frogs, Krauts and Russkies to re-establish their influence and get their foreign hands on the oil and the rebuilding contracts, of course. We can't have that. Such things should be the province of the 'forces of the coalition'.

 

Badger. 0-4 on Friday at Brimmo?

[pabird]

The sadness AFF is that the FO and in consequence Bliars office were fully aware that the invasion would set off exactly the situation fundamentlist were looking for, with Saddam out of the way the mobs of terror in the name of their god would flood in, they have!

Was it a no win situation prior to the invasion? no by working with friendly Arab states we could have come to a long term solution that gave the best odds of a peaceful solution

BUT two ego maniacs had personal ambition to satfisfy

Strange but the big loser other than the families of dead and wounded Iraq people should be the labour party who to stay in power supported Bliar, will the labour party be a big time loser? that is the future responsibility of voters!!

[AFF]

Hmmmnnn.

 

The people of this country have had one opportunity since the unlawful, unauthorised and immoral invasion of Iraq, pabird. I wondered if the Labour Party would get one single vote and briefly I was picturing an election where the Coservative Party would have a majority of approximatelt 600 over the lib-dems or whatever they are called nowadays.

 

I then remembered the anti Thatcher votes from the valleys, former mining areas and steel producing towns of the once industriallised North and assumed that the odd few Sociallists would be returned to Westminster. What do I know about anything?

 

People come on here, on the T.V. and in the newspapers and talk about the ruthless Dictator Saddam. 5000 Kurds gassed etc. etc. They don't blOOdy well bang on about Weapons of Mass Distraction now do they? No, pabird, they don't. They never talked about the US dollars that put the man into power in the first place do they? No, pabird, they don't.

 

Its as though Tone had gone into Parliament and never mentioned the WoMD. A small side issue. Was I dreaming? He never mentioned the Kurds when preparing this country for war.

 

What has this lunatic got to do to lose an election? How badly has he got to screw up? God help us all.

[pabird]

Amen

[Big J R]

Seem to remember when we invaded, someone telling me that Iraq would be to us what Vietnam was to the Yanks.

 

How very true !

[Badger]

Maybe people vote for selfish reasons. Unless they've been directly affected by the invasion, why should it bother them? I know many people who voted the same way they have in every previous election, but I only know two who voted specifically because of the war.

 

And AFF, what a game!