think I have done the right thing telling you all, you best check

[coupwotcoup]

Or don't fit the space allowed!

[Tom S]

Quote:

My advice to you Tom,is to apply for a local planning job.You sound just the man the're looking for

If you mean I look at the wider picture rather than just one aspect, then you may be right.

Quote:

I've nothing against pursuading people to use public transport.

Are you sure that shouldn't say 'other people'?

Quote:

If 10% of car drivers actually took the governments 'advice' and switched to public transport,the system wouldn't be able to cope.Trains are already well overcrowded now in rush hours

I don't know the exact figures but the number of people who drive into London in the rush hour is much, much smaller than the numbers who travel by train. Your hypothetical 10% of car drivers wouldn't actually increase the train numbers very much proportionally but would make things much better for the 90% who continue to drive.

[zody]

Is this a question for Ken Livingstone to answer

[Tom S]

It should be for the Secretary of State for Transport (and I'm ashamed to say I can't remember who that is at present). However given that his/her predecessor decided to give Ken all the responsibility but only half the power the whole situation's a mess.

[zody]

more like, say one thing, mean something else, then say, I never said that, comes to mind

[lovely stuff]

I think Ken's statement 20 years ago says it all. 'If i was in power,i'd ban cars.I hate the bloody lot of them.'

 

One of Ken most senior people at TFL (Transport For London),is a 'Reclaim The Streets' activist and runs their website. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

[AbbeyMan]

Quote:

Arkwright said:

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
Ahh.The UN-Independent.

The only paper more left wing that the Guardian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ban.gif" alt="" />

What exactly has that got to do with things?.
Do you only obey the laws that suit you?.
Oh yes, before you ask I don't read the Guardian, Independent or Sun.

No-one "reads" The Sun! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/chloe.gif" alt="" />

[Tom S]

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
I think Ken's statement 20 years ago says it all. 'If i was in power,i'd ban cars.I hate the bloody lot of them.'

One of Ken most senior people at TFL (Transport For London),is a 'Reclaim The Streets' activist and runs their website. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Whether you agree with him or not, at least he's trying to do something about the fact that central London can't take any more road traffic. If you accept that demolishing whole swathes of buildings to increase road space is a non-starter, then discouraging car use is the only answer. Agreed, in an ideal world the tube would have been brought up to standard first but decades of neglect meant that that wasn't possible. If he'd waited for that then the city would have become totally gridlocked.

[Arkwright]

Quote:

AbbeyMan said:

Quote:

Arkwright said:

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
Ahh.The UN-Independent.

The only paper more left wing that the Guardian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ban.gif" alt="" />

What exactly has that got to do with things?.
Do you only obey the laws that suit you?.
Oh yes, before you ask I don't read the Guardian, Independent or Sun.

No-one "reads" The Sun! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/chloe.gif" alt="" />

Fair call on that one.

BTW if public transport was better round my way I'd gladly use my car a lot less.
Can't see how getting rid of Bus lanes & letting people park almost wherever they wan't (Presumably in the defunct Bus Lanes?) will make it easier to travel.
Oh yes, what's the point of getting rid of humps & replacing them with camera's if 10-20% of cars being photographed don't have insurance or car tax, where are you supposed to send their fine?.

[TB&G]

Not a perfect idea I know but I'd put a hand scanner on every petrol pump to use on the car tax in the windscreen cos you can only get this when you have a current insurance/MOT etc can't you.

 

The pump would only then give petrol to those with an up-to-date disc and verified through a computer link that it hadn't been reported stolen and therefor cancelled or read as counterfeit.

 

Or is that too complicated to work?

[Tom S]

Set-up costs would be immense but I don't see why it wouldn't work - particuarly if the government caries on with the idea of 'chipping' cars to allow for more widespread road-pricing - the tax disc details could be included in the chip, as could insurance details.

 

Or is that all too 'Big Brother'?

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

Arkwright said:

Quote:

AbbeyMan said:

Quote:

Arkwright said:

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
Ahh.The UN-Independent.

The only paper more left wing that the Guardian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ban.gif" alt="" />

What exactly has that got to do with things?.
Do you only obey the laws that suit you?.
Oh yes, before you ask I don't read the Guardian, Independent or Sun.

No-one "reads" The Sun! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/chloe.gif" alt="" />

Fair call on that one.

BTW if public transport was better round my way I'd gladly use my car a lot less.
Most people i know ,wouldn't use public transport (outside of rush hours) if buses and train were on time AND free,and even though people are fed up with paying 78% tax on petrol.Most people would happily pay double that amount rather than give up their car.You can't bully or price people out of the cars.The quicker the government realise this, the quicker we can have a proper trasnsport policy.

Can't see how getting rid of Bus lanes & letting people park almost wherever they wan't (Presumably in the defunct Bus Lanes?) will make it easier to travel. So you can't see how turning a one-lane-one-bus lane road,into a two lane road would speed up ALL traffic ???I also said take away parking restrictions where it would NOT HINDER free flow of traffic.Many yellow lines are in force at present to (in Tom terms) to pursuade people off the road by making it impossible for them to park.


Oh yes, what's the point of getting rid of humps & replacing them with camera's if 10-20% of cars being photographed don't have insurance or car tax, where are you supposed to send their fine?.
Under my 4 point scheme they wouldn't be on the road.Tax disc reader cameras and detection camera's (like the current congestion charge camera's).would put an end to illegal motorists very quickly

[lovely stuff]

...

[TB&G]

Although, personally I'm an advocate of the no car tax and pay extra at the pump for mileage used idea.

 

Insurance could be issued as plastic with a bar code for swiping at the pump (no plastic no petrol) and with car chip added subsequently could be a foolproof secure method.

 

Also no plastic no MOT either.

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

Tom S said:

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
I think Ken's statement 20 years ago says it all. 'If i was in power,i'd ban cars.I hate the bloody lot of them.'

One of Ken most senior people at TFL (Transport For London),is a 'Reclaim The Streets' activist and runs their website. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Whether you agree with him or not, at least he's trying to do something about the fact that central London can't take any more road traffic. If you accept that demolishing whole swathes of buildings to increase road space is a non-starter, then discouraging car use is the only answer. Agreed, in an ideal world the tube would have been brought up to standard first but decades of neglect meant that that wasn't possible. If he'd waited for that then the city would have become totally gridlocked.

The congestion charge is the first step towards widespread nationwide charges and toll roads.The government make big money whilst p*ssing off car users.Nothing new there.Kens aim was to make sure all his £200,000 bendy buses and his private black taxi's can swan about in comfort.If you believe Kens motivation is just to relieve traffic congestion,why did he panic when he realised he was only raking in just over half the money in congestion charges than was forecast.His scheme was too successful in warding off drivers,so he launched a campaign to encourage people to back into cental London.Unfortunatly a lot of businesses went under, before Ken recovery plan.When that didn't work.The solution was to put the charge up to £8 in order to meet revenue targets...Nice one.
Not many people took their car into cental London anyway.No parking spaces guv !.Most peole traveled into the zone on their way somewhere else.The traffic still there,its just been squashed onto all the ringroads.Its small business bear the brunt of the congestion charges.

[Tom S]

Quote:

So you can't see how turning a one-lane-one-bus lane road,into a two lane road would speed up ALL traffic

No. It would speed up cars and slow down buses. That's why they were brought in: to keep buses moving. Again you're thinking only of the car driver, not the wider picture that the transport planners have to consider. What about all the Londoners who can't afford to run a car? What are they supposed to do? You and I have the choice: they don't.

[Arkwright]

Quote:

lovely stuff said:

Quote:

Arkwright said:

Quote:

AbbeyMan said:

Quote:

Arkwright said:

lovely stuff said:
Ahh.The UN-Independent.

The only paper more left wing that the Guardian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ban.gif" alt="" />

What exactly has that got to do with things?.
Do you only obey the laws that suit you?.
Oh yes, before you ask I don't read the Guardian, Independent or Sun.

No-one "reads" The Sun! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/chloe.gif" alt="" />

Fair call on that one.

BTW if public transport was better round my way I'd gladly use my car a lot less.
Most people i know ,wouldn't use public transport (outside of rush hours) if buses and train were on time AND free,and even though people are fed up with paying 78% tax on petrol.Most people would happily pay double that amount rather than give up their car.You can't bully or price people out of the cars.The quicker the government realise this, the quicker we can have a proper trasnsport policy.

Can't see how getting rid of Bus lanes & letting people park almost wherever they wan't (Presumably in the defunct Bus Lanes?) will make it easier to travel. So you can't see how turning a one-lane-one-bus lane road,into a two lane road would speed up ALL traffic ???I also said take away parking restrictions where it would NOT HINDER free flow of traffic.Many yellow lines are in force at present to (in Tom terms) to pursuade people off the road by making it impossible for them to park.


Oh yes, what's the point of getting rid of humps & replacing them with camera's if 10-20% of cars being photographed don't have insurance or car tax, where are you supposed to send their fine?.
Under my 4 point scheme they wouldn't be on the road.Tax disc reader cameras and detection camera's (like the current congestion charge camera's).would put an end to illegal motorists very quickly

As I said if Public Transport was better I'd gladly use my car less,
I'm not being bullied out of using my car it's my choice.
If your friends are so reliant on cars then frankly I'm sorry for them.

The Bus lanes in this area have actually helped Traffic flow more easily (Think how appaling Bullsmoor Lane was by the A10).
Plus the Bus lanes in Cheshunt have helped the flow of traffic in the area.

I take it now then with these wonderful camera's in the Congestion Zone that no untaxed cars are driving in London?.
Road humps slow Cars down in Residential area's,making it safer for people. If that has saved ONE person's life then it is worth the inconvenience.

[lovely stuff]

So why should buses take priority over cars ? Who decided that? Bus lanes are inefficient.A two lane road will carry a bigger volume of people in any given hour,than one lane & a bus lane.FACT !

 

Buses may fly along their lanes at present,but they still get stuck in gridlock when they merge back in the traffic.With two lanes open,all trafiic would be freer flowing ,benifiting everyone.

[Tom S]

Quote:

Its small business bear the brunt of the congestion charges.

I think that's another myth that's being propogated by the Evening Standard. The number of these small business's clients who drive in is surely small compared with those who use public transport - you yourself say that most drivers were going through rather than to the central zone. Far more significant, I think, was the closure of the Central Line coinciding with the introduction of the charge. Delivery costs will have gone up slightly - £5 maximum per vehicle per day (do they get the discount?) - but I don't see how that is 'crippling' as it will be spread over several orders.

[Tom S]

Quote:

lovely stuff said:
So why should buses take priority over cars ? Who decided that? Bus lanes are inefficient.A two lane road will carry a bigger volume of people in any given hour,than one lane & a bus lane.FACT !

Can you give me a link to the research that shows this, please. Or is it one of the 86.5% of facts that statistics prove to have been made up? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Quote:

Buses may fly along their lanes at present,but they still get stuck in gridlock when they merge back in the traffic.With two lanes open,all trafiic would be freer flowing ,benifiting everyone who drives a car.

That's surely an argument for more bus lanes, not fewer.