Question Time Tonight

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:

A British National Party candidate has said Asian and black people born in the UK could not call themselves British.
Simon Smith, BNP candidate in Warley, West Mids, said on radio: "A dog born in a stable doesn't make it a horse." [/i]

I do agree that just because somebody is born in Britain it doesn’t necessarily make them British. It’s a complex argument and one that I don’t think has a straightforward answer, I’m not saying that EVERY person born to immigrants in this country isn’t British, but I do think that there are question concerning who can and can’t be considered British. Terry Butcher was born in Singapore it doesn’t make him Singaporean.

[Stu M]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:
A British National Party candidate has said Asian and black people born in the UK could not call themselves British.
Simon Smith, BNP candidate in Warley, West Mids, said on radio: "A dog born in a stable doesn't make it a horse." [/i]

Trust the BNP to misphrase the quote, being as it should be the Duke of Wellington's original: "Just because one is born in a stable does not make one a horse".

But then their grasp of history is tenuous at best.

Or maybe they inserted the word 'dog' to come across as even nastier than usual.

[Fleet Loyal]

The candidate in question wasn’t directly quoting Wellington and made no reference to Wellington or any other historical figure.

 

I remember hearing a BNP candidate make these comments on a BBC radio discussion phone in a couple of years ago; he made this reply to an Asian caller who said that people have the right to say whatever nationality they want to be. The BNP fella said that nationality isn’t something that can be chosen to which the Asian caller said that he can choose to be whatever he likes, the BNP reply was that just because a dog is born in a stable, doesn’t make it a horse.

[Stu M]

Well you can choose to believe it was a flash of inspiration from the BNP fella, but it's a well-known-enough quote and bears an uncanny resemblance to Wellington's original. I'm not saying he directly quoted Wellington, merely misquoted a well-worn phrase.

 

But we agree on very little, so we're unlikely to agree on this, eh?

[Fleet Loyal]

I’m not denying that Wellington did make a similar reference. I’m just pointing out that you can’t fault someone for their lack of historical knowledge just because a statement made by someone bears a resemblance to an earlier statement by somebody else.

 

If I were to make a statement such as ‘Just because a cockroach is born in a stable doesn’t make it a horse’. I wouldn’t be misquoting anybody unless I preceded that phrase with ‘As Wellington once said…’

[Unrecognized Genius]

Clearly immigration & asylum are the main issues for you in this election FL and Mr Howard's stance in putting these things centre stage has helped win your vote. However, I suspect you'd be happier voting BNP & would not find it so easy to support the Tories if things had turned out differently and they were led by, say, Ken Clarke or Michael Portillo.

 

Personally, I sense the Tories might have miscalculated & have overplayed the immigration issue. Whilst they are guaranteed of your vote, I think there are plenty more people, whom they attracted initially, but have now put off by banging on too much about things that aren't so high on their list of priorities.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. Obviously, it's all down to how the parties' pitches play in the crucial marginal seats.

 

Hopefully, we'll have some new signings & a retained list to discuss before long or we're going to be without anything to discuss on here soon.

 

EC

[kmj]

As you have specifically chosen your latest icon, you obviously identify with it's statement ie " Don't unpack your going back." This one size fits all (or applies to all) message, ignores the individual circumstances of asylum seekers and the merits of their application and confirms your inherent racism which in earlier postings you had in part attempted to distance yourself from. It simply cannot be fair or reasonable to lump everyone together. There can be really no doubt that you are in fact a true BNP supporter. More likely than not it is a badge you personally own? Still I don't suppose this will unduly concern Michael Howard or the Tories generally. For all their attempts to argue that they are being moderate on this issue, they would welcome racist bigots with open arms. I wonder how you truly view the Fleet's black players?

[Stu M]

I think his ratio of football:asylum posts is about 3:19.

 

Isn't there another forum more receptive to his fixation..., sorry, viewpoint?

[kmj]

Perhaps after the election is over the Administrators should consider preventing posters from displaying icons etc of a political/provocatively offensive nature? Just an idea.

[Lennie Macfartney]

KMJ & Stu M

 

Re your latest posts, suddenly lyrics from my favourite track on Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell come into my head ...

 

"...It was a hot summer night and the beach was burning

There was fog crawling over the sand.

When I listened to your heart I heard the whole world turning

I see the shooting stars

Falling through your trembling hands.

 

You were licking your lips and your lipstick shining

I was dying just to ask for a taste.

We were lying together in a silver lining

By the light of the moon

You know there's not another moment

Not another moment

Not another moment to waste."

 

Has Lennie finally flipped? Does he have secret memories/fantasies of other, to all intents & purposes thoroughly macho, Fleet posters wearing lipstick & lying on the beach?

 

No it's the title of the song:

 

"You took the words right out of my mouth."

 

Lennie Mac

[Harry J Allstars]

Quote:

Lennie Macfartney said:
Has Lennie finally flipped? Does he have secret memories/fantasies of other, to all intents & purposes thoroughly macho, Fleet posters wearing lipstick & lying on the beach?Lennie Mac

You so want to be me.

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:
Clearly immigration & asylum are the main issues for you in this election FL and Mr Howard's stance in putting these things centre stage has helped win your vote.
EC

As you can tell from my previous messages I do value Immigration and Asylum to be one of the most important issues at the moment. If I had to the issue that concerns me most though I would say crime. I’d like to see more police on the streets, tougher sentences for criminals and fewer rights for criminals and more rights for the victims of crimes.

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:
I suspect you'd be happier voting BNP & would not find it so easy to support the Tories if things had turned out differently and they were led by, say, Ken Clarke or Michael Portillo.

EC

As I have said before I will be voting for there Conservatives on Thursday – the reason for this is although I don’t agree with them on every issue their policies match my opinions best out of the mainstream parties.

I’m not ashamed to admit that after this election if Labour secures another term then I probably will take a look at the BNP as a realistic option in the local or European Elections.

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

kmj said:
As you have specifically chosen your latest icon, you obviously identify with its statement ie “Don’t unpack your going back

Spot on.

Quote:

kmj said:
This one size fits all (or applies to all) message, ignores the individual circumstances of asylum seekers and the merits of their application and confirms your inherent racism which in earlier postings you had in part attempted to distance yourself from. It simply cannot be fair or reasonable to lump everyone together. There can be really no doubt that you are in fact a true BNP supporter.

I suppose my stance is more out of frustration that anything else.

Ok, I’ll hold my hands up and admit that in a perfect world I’d rather not see any asylum seekers, but it isn’t a perfect world and for some reason or other people hare always going to want to seek refuge in another country if they are being persecuted in their homeland. I’ve said before that there shouldn’t be limitations on the number of asylum seekers that we accept – if someone is in desperate need of assistance then, we should offer a hand of friendship. There should be much tighter controls on who we do accept and bogus applications should be dealt with swiftly with deportation. Unfortunately all the time that this government fail to enforce the ruling that asylum seekers should seek refuge in the first safe country that they arrive at, then I for one would question whether the mass majority of people that arrive in Britain are actually asylum seekers at all or economic migrants.

Let’s face it, the Labour Party, the CRE and the other ruling bodies which exert so much influence on this country will never allow there to be a debate on immigration and asylum and all the time that the people are denied their freedom of speech then people will continue to lend their support to far right groups like the BNP, because as I see it, The Labour Party, the CRE, the Gypsy Council and the countless other registered bodies fighting for minority groups care little for people like myself where as the BNP would put my rights first.

As for the lad counting what proportion of my posts relate to football and to politics, you really need to get out more son - most of the posts are in reply to questions regarding my political stance from people like yourself anyway.
Stalker spring to mind.

[Stu M]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
As for the lad counting what proportion of my posts relate to football and to politics, you really need to get out more son - most of the posts are in reply to questions regarding my political stance from people like yourself anyway.
Stalker spring to mind.

A rough guesstimate, sunshine, made easier by your almost total lack of contribution to anything football-related. As for getting out more, at least I haven't just spent half an hour putting a group of ethnic minorities into my avatar...

[Unrecognized Genius]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
Let’s face it, the Labour Party, the CRE and the other ruling bodies which exert so much influence on this country will never allow there to be a debate on immigration and asylum and all the time that the people are denied their freedom of speech then people will continue to lend their support to far right groups like the BNP, because as I see it, The Labour Party, the CRE, the Gypsy Council and the countless other registered bodies fighting for minority groups care little for people like myself where as the BNP would put my rights first.

You keep on telling them, matey. On the other side of the Atlantic, you'd be on the side of the conspiracy theorists convinced that the commies and Democrats were in league with Satan to deny the good ole boys' the right to arm themselves.

The people who prevent a sensible debate on asylum & immigration are the right not the left, because they always go straight for the little Englander nerve & shout about all us politically correct pinkos denying their freedom - it's a myth, like all this cobblers about political correctness. Just who is denied their freedom of speech? Are you talking about these martyrs to the cause?

Honest citizens rights infringed?

As I see it the last real challenge to freedom of speech came when super rich Tory cabinet ministers tried to use their wealth & the libel laws to silence any media investigation into their wrongdoing. It worked for a while until all 3 - Hamilton, Archer, Aitken were exposed and the last 2 ended up in prison, largely thanks to that organ of lefty subversion, The Guardian.

Why should you need the BNP to stand up for you? Are you in danger of being sent back to a regime that might torture you at best, because you find yourself in a place where hysteria has been cynically whipped up against all perceived aliens, branding them all as illegals or bogus? When Michael Howard was Home Secretary he presided over chaos. Now he proposes to abandon the Geneva Convention which exists to stop just such things happening.

Just for once, stop reading your Mail, Express, or Voice of Freedom & read something from a different viewpoint:

Lefty Propaganda?

We'll never agree politically, but I really do fail to see where you sense of infringed liberties in coming from.

EC

[FleetFanatic]

I can't see where his liberties are being infringed - though I can see an argument that the hospitality of our nation is being abused by many - including those born here who choose to live a life on benefits.