General Election 2005

[Stu M]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:=
All you politically correct Guardianists on here slagging off those who voice concerns really do need to take the blinkers off

I'm only slagging off Fleet Loyal's 'concerns' due to my own concerns abouot his motivations. Your motivations, FF, are clearly not the same as FL's - most of the above in fact I agree with you, though I still wouldn't vote Tory this time around.

But it's not being "politically correct" to argue with much of Loyal's claptrap.

[Unrecognized Genius]

Of course, FF, I do disagree with most of your analysis, but then I am a Guardianist Pinko. Actually, it's not a wet liberal weirdo paper at all. Have a look some time. It's argument yesterday about how people should cast their vote was one of the best arguments of the left I've read in ages. If you have time, give it a read:

 

Guardianisto Pinko Propaganda

 

You won't agree with it, but, whilst I don't agree with all of it either, it does give you a clear idea where people with opposite views to yours are coming from.

 

Although I do disagree with most of your political pronouncements, they don't fill me with rage like our friend FL's. However, there is one thing of yours I really object to - that new avatar of yours. Just looking at that mad bint rocking about all over the place makes me bloody seasick. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> Don't envy that poor rocking horse at all.

 

EC

[FleetFanatic]

What also concerns me is that we end up again with Labour having a majority of over 100 seats despite not have the 'electorate majaority'.

 

2001 election total votes cast;

 

Lab 10,724,895

Con 8,357,622

Lib 4,812,833

 

So less than half of the population that bothered to vote wanted Blair?

 

This isn't democracy & is why the system needs changing.

[vienna1964]

Does anyone really want proportional representation ? Imagine... a mind numbing series of coalition governments, sometimes LibDem & Tory, sometimes LibDem and Labour... stretching out into the far-flung future, with the LibDems controlling the axis of power at every turn - even though they only get 20-25% of the popular vote !

It would be political zero-entropy !

[FleetFanatic]

So it's ok for Blair to get a majority of 200+ and 2/3 of the seats overall when less than half who voted wanted him?

 

Cast my Tory vote at 9am this morning, no doubt surrounded by the masses of Labour voters in this area who love their life on benefits & wouldn't dream of doing a day's work. Now it's time for bed.

[CANV EFM]

with p.r. i reckon the lib dem vote would fall as the tactical and protest voters dont vote to stop a tory or labour candidate getting in... labours core vote would increase on the back of this.. the torys need to motivate the 3 million plus of their natural supporters who have given up completly

[Unrecognized Genius]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:
Cast my Tory vote at 9am this morning, no doubt surrounded by the masses of Labour voters in this area who love their life on benefits & wouldn't dream of doing a day's work. Now it's time for bed.

Come on. The people you're talking cannot be a*sed to get their over-sized backsides down to the polling booth & vote for anyone. Mind you, most of them are convinced that immigrants & asylum seekers are getting bigger benefits than them, if not taking away the jobs they'd run a mile from if offered.

Until they can find someone to lead them who has credibility & charisma, didn't serve under Major or Thatcher & who is prepared to drag them kicking & screaming into the 21st Century, the Tories will remain unelectable. Many people know that. And that is why Labour will win despite Tony Blair's unpopularity.

EC

[Fleet Loyal]

Dunno about all that but I’ve just been down to the local polling station to cast my votes. Luckily where I live I don’t have to mix with peasants, immigrants and the rest of the low lives that malinger in the town centre. Only good British folk round my manor…

[kmj]

Then perhaps you should get out more.

[Stu M]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
Dunno about all that but I’ve just been down to the local polling station to cast my votes. Luckily where I live I don’t have to mix with peasants, immigrants and the rest of the low lives that malinger in the town centre. Only good British folk round my manor…

But they have to mix with you, so that's one lowlife at least in your Garden of Eden.

[FleetFanatic]

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:
Until they can find someone to lead them who has credibility & charisma, didn't serve under Major or Thatcher & who is prepared to drag them kicking & screaming into the 21st Century, the Tories will remain unelectable. EC

Well the people of Gravesham disagreed!

Adam Holloway Conservative 19,739
Chris Pond Labour 19,085
Bruce Parmenter Liberal Democrat 4,851
Geoff Coates UK Independence Party 850
Christopher Nickerson English Independence Party 654

Majority 654

Turnout

Congratulations to our new Tory M.P. - Adam Holloway.

Watch out Blair - the tide is turning.

[Stu M]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:
Watch out Blair - the tide is turning.

Very very slowly, though. And that's from a non-Labour voter.

[Graham S]

Quote:

FleetFanatic said:

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:
Until they can find someone to lead them who has credibility & charisma, didn't serve under Major or Thatcher & who is prepared to drag them kicking & screaming into the 21st Century, the Tories will remain unelectable. EC

Well the people of Gravesham disagreed!

Adam Holloway Conservative 19,739
Chris Pond Labour 19,085
Bruce Parmenter Liberal Democrat 4,851
Geoff Coates UK Independence Party 850
Christopher Nickerson English Independence Party 654

Majority 654

Turnout

Congratulations to our new Tory M.P. - Adam Holloway.

Watch out Blair - the tide is turning.

As a Labour voter, I am quite pleased that the Government's majority has been substantially cut, because I think it needs an effective opposition to keep it on its toes. Its huge majorities have done it & the country no favours.

However, I think it would be a mistake by the Tories to see what has happened as the start of a huge revival. According to the BBC, their share of the vote will not turn out to be substantially different to what they achieved under Hague & many of the people wo abandoned Labour in key marginals will return next time.

Unless the Tories really do something about re-building themselves properly, that is. I probably would never vote for them, but I'd be delighted if they could make themselves credible again, because there has to be an alternative to the centre left or our democracy will go stale. That means the balance of power behind the scenes being relinguished by the Blue Rinse brigade & energetic, younger people coming to the fore (and to be honest, Adam Holloway looks as if he might be one of these.) FL will hate to hear it but Andrew Marr pointed out that they actually had more non white candidates standing last night than any of the other parties, so maybe the signs are there. But it will come to nothing until they have a leader who, as UG says, isn't associated with the bad old days of sleaze. A leader too who will have to sort out their bitter divide over Europe, which still festers under the surface - or as Max Hastings, a Tory supporter says rather graphically, "lurks like a cache of internet pornography."

Obviously Labour has a lesson to learn too. If it doesn't it will go the way the Tories themselves went in 1997.

Graham S

[pabird]

All sounds very proper of thought and balanced,but you labour voters (less than one third of the voters)cling on to power at the feet of a proven lying cheating cynic who caused the deaths of over 100,000 human beings with an illegal invasion and has broken more pledges than your local pawnbroker

No labour supporter will be able to claim the high moral ground ever again

[Barry Scott]

so Saddam was killing thousands of his own people with what? Hairspray? Air freshener?

[Graham S]

Except that plenty of Labour supporters did not back the invasion of Iraq. And what was the alternative? Howard, on his own admission, would have gone to war without the 2nd UN Resolution. Vote Liberal Democrat? That would only have led to the same thing - a Tory government who, even if they'd have been honest about the reasoning for going to war, are not in any condition to govern yet. Even their own most experienced hands admit that.

 

This election will spell the end of TB's leadership I feel. He knows his decision to force the Iraq issue is the reason his party dropped so many seats. Although he intended seeing through a full term, I wouldn't be surprised if this makes him change his mind and he goes sooner rather than later. Might be wrong, of course. Only time will tell.

 

I also think you'll find that 1/3 (ie33%) of the people who voted, voted Tory & Labour got about 3% more. Not enough to justify the difference in seats, though, I'll give you that. But then the Tories were hardly champions of PR all the time first past the post swung things nicely their way.

 

Graham S

[pabird]

Since when did the killing of thousands gain moral value because someone else did it first

And lets remember during the reign of Saddam there was never a threat from Iraq, in terror attack terms, within our borders where as now every little or large group of fanatics has a base in Iraq planning to inflict damage where!ever they can

No! power corrupts and the ultimate ego with ultimate power becomes a Tony Blair and you voted for him

I.E. you and yours will vote for any evil that keeps you in power

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

Stu M said:

But they have to mix with you, so that's one lowlife at least in your Garden of Eden.

They’re all like minded trust me on that. Quite refreshing actually to hear those good old fashioned British traditional references for certain sections of society.

[pabird]

You can spout all the platitudes you like but the truth is the labour party bottled getting rid of Blair being afraid of losing power

Where or not TB lasts one month or four years the labour party lacked the moral fibre needed to rid its self of a proven lying disgraced leader, and for what? fear of losing control! smacks of the old Soviet leadership and followers

[Barry Scott]

Quote:

pabird said:
And lets remember during the reign of Saddam there was never a threat from Iraq, in terror attack terms, within our borders

yeah, they said the same thing about Hitler in the early 1930s