General Election 2005

[Guest]

Point I was making URG, is that the first invaders were not different races for a start, that's a myth, and secondly the only think that easter europeans, africans and so on comtribute to is listed above, crime etc.

[Guest]

So where you're coming from, let's be honest, is not that you're all that worried about the legality of immigration and the funding that goes into it and the issues of asylum. Your bottom line, and your whole obsession with this issue (I accept 'obsession' is my word) is that you're afraid non-whites are filling up your country and reducing the superiority/position of privilege enjoyed by white-skinned Britons.

 

White people make up 92% of this country - yes, there are projections that this will diminish, but if you think the white race is about to be overhauled, you're a very paranoid individual. Most of the positions of power and establishment in this country are white, and I'm sure 50 years down the line, while the situation will have changed, you won't be the only white face in a 'sea of darkness' or whatever it is you're so afraid of.

[Graham S]

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Can’t you see that many of these immigrants are dragging Britain back into the dark ages?

I’m lucky enough to live in an area where you just wouldn’t see an immigrant, but look at what’s going on in ethnic majority areas. Increases in HIV, tuberculosis and other illnesses, not safe to walk the streets at night, gun crime, drug taking, dirty streets with graffiti, fraudulent election vote rigging. Many of these immigrants have no idea how to conduct themselves properly and in their stupidity are turning huge parts of the country into the horrible places that they have fled.

In your point about the area where you live, you damn yourself. You have no experience of living in an area where the people come from obviously mixed & different ethnic backgrounds (What I suspect is that you have no non-white faces or obviously Eastern European accents around you.)

So, how the Hell can you talk authoritavely about life in the real world? Increase in HIV and other STIs is caused by a failure in our sex education programme and by people of all backgrounds ignoring sensible advice; the return of TB and other illnesses is down to the over reliance on accepted drugs and anti-biotics, in particular, which has led to the development of strains of these diseases which are resistant to the traditional treatments; it is perceived as being not safe to walk the streets at night because gangs of kids have got accustomed to doing exactly what they like, without being challenged or brought to book - in Gravesend the vast majority of these kids are white, poorly educated & even more poorly parented; gun crime is a fact of life in areas of London and other big cities, like London - yes it seems to be a cheap, quick short cut to macho-hood for many young black males, not because they're black, but because they have undeveloped value systems, just like their white counterparts who choose a different form of expressing it; as for saying that dirty streets, graffitti, drug taking and election rigging (ok so Mugabe does it; he's black; therefore all blacks do it?) well, words fail me.

Take it from me, in the stupidity stakes you out-do virtually every immigrant, asylum seeker and non-white person I have ever met as a friend, colleague, adversary in debate, pupil I teach or parent of the same, if you truly believe the drivel you have just posted. Even Michael Howard would disown you. Pray there is a BNP candidate in your constituency and waste your vote on them.

Graham S

[Stu M]

Hear hear Graham!

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

Graham S said:

In your point about the area where you live, you damn yourself. You have no experience of living in an area where the people come from obviously mixed & different ethnic backgrounds (What I suspect is that you have no non-white faces or obviously Eastern European accents around you.)

Graham S

Thankfully, yes that’s correct.

Quote:

Graham S said:

So, how the Hell can you talk authoritavely about life in the real world? Increase in HIV and other STIs is caused by a failure in our sex education programme and by people of all backgrounds ignoring sensible advice

Graham S

The fact remains however hard people like Graham S try to bend the truth that in the last five years the annual number of new HIV diagnoses in Britain has more than doubled. At the end of 2001, it was estimated that there were a total of 41,200 people living with HIV in the UK, of which just over a third were undiagnosed. In 2002, there were approximately 4,300 diagnoses acquired through heterosexual sex; 80% of which were likely to have been acquired in Sub-Saharan Africa. The relatively rapid rise in HIV infections in the UK comes at a time when the Government is under increasing public pressure to reduce the number of asylum seekers and migrants coming into the country, on the grounds that they are overburdening the education, health and social welfare infrastructure.

(Figures taken from an official Home Office report “An Inquiry into the Impact of the UK Nationality and Immigration System on People Living with HIV” by Neil Gerrard MP into the rise of HIV diagnoses in Britain, July 2003)

It is also worth noting that present; 42 million people are infected with HIV, over 30 million of who are living in Sub-Saharan Africa. The epidemic in India is spreading rapidly and nothing is being done to stop it. India has overtaken South Africa as the country with the most HIV positive patients.

(Taken from a report compiled by Richard Feacham, The executive director of the Global Fund to Fight Aids, April 2005)

Quote:

Graham S said:
Gun crime is a fact of life in areas of London and other big cities, like London - yes it seems to be a cheap, quick short cut to macho-hood for many young black males, not because they're black, but because they have undeveloped value systems, just like their white counterparts who choose a different form of expressing it

Graham S

Quite frankly the most worrying of all your ratings and a sad but true indication into the attitudes of the general public and quite possibly many policeman officers into the worrying rise of gun culture. Gun culture is not a way of life but a statement of intent by anybody foolhardy enough to partake in such stupidity then they are rejecting participation in a lawful and democratic society and therefore are criminals and should feel the full force of the law. I see you have had the sense to realise that black males do so not because of the colour of their skin but by their very nature are culturally and morally hostile to the British way of life their value system is undeveloped.

Quote:

Graham S said:
…election rigging (ok so Mugabe does it; he's black; therefore all blacks do it?) well, words fail me.

Graham S

Graham S futile attempts to instigate that I suggested that ALL blacks are responsible for election rigging is clearly not true. Whilst is to be expected that less advanced societies across the world are more likely to have sub-standard working models of democracy I was simply highlighting the fact about the Muslim parliamentary candidates in the Midlands who we have read about in the papers recently.

Quote:

Graham S said:

Take it from me, in the stupidity stakes you out-do virtually every immigrant, asylum seeker and non-white person I have ever met as a friend, colleague, adversary in debate, pupil I teach or parent of the same, if you truly believe the drivel you have just posted. Even Michael Howard would disown you. Pray there is a BNP candidate in your constituency and waste your vote on them.

Graham S

Now come on Graham we know that’s not true and it’s more of an indication into your frustration at the rise of more and more good honest, hard-working British people who are beginning to wake up and question the actions and motives of the Labour government and their failed multi-cultural experiment more than any indication into my level of intellect.

As I’ve said before I will vote Conservative in this election and will make a decision as to who I shall be landing my support either as a voter or party activist at a later date.

[jc]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said: I see you have had the sense to realise that black males do so not because of the colour of their skin but by their very nature are culturally and morally hostile to the British way of life their value system is undeveloped.

Is that all black males? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Fleet Loyal]

Does it say all black males?

[Graham S]

I'm glad you wasted a lot of time finding figures you could manipulate to make it appear you were supporting a valid argument. (Or maybe some barking mad rightwing website or magazine had them ready to hand for you.) You pretend to be clever and well-informed, but it's all as paper-thin as your claim to represent the "true" people of Britain.

 

Your true lack of any real argument is shown by the puerlie little graemlin you have chosen to place alongside my name, every time you refer to me, so I'm not going to bother picking your figures or ramblings apart. What I do know is that anyone with a brain and an open mind can easily spot who the real expert in the art of self abuse is in this debate.

 

I also see you're sporting the same badge in your avatar as that worn by a BNP candidate on the tv a few days ago. Now you've finally broken cover, I'm not going to bother replying to any more of your posts.

 

Given that you only got round to registering today, I'm hoping you're not actually a supporter of the Fleet, because I'd hate to think I'd ever shared the same air space as you.

 

Graham S

[Fleet Loyal]

ok, your choice.

[jc]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
Does it say all black males?

No, but it doesn't say 'some black males' either.

[Fleet Loyal]

Let’s be fair though, the improper uses of firearms are clearly more of a problem in black communities than in mainly white communities – this doesn’t necessarily mean that all black males are guilty of gun crimes or illegal procession and perhaps I should have made myself clearer.

 

There is a dangerous ‘gangsta rap’ culture in this country that many black males feel they have to conform to in order to earn respect and part of this culture is undoubtedly the use of guns and drugs.

 

Last year there I recall a report in local newspaper about a string of muggings in Northfleet where the suspect was described as ‘about eighteen years old, white, with a hooded tracksuit and baseball cap and speaking with an afro-Caribbean accent”. It’s worrying that this ‘gangsta-rap’ culture is being so readily embraced by young white males, although I find it pathetic that young white males are bowling round in these ghetto fashions and talking with pseudo black accents even though they have probably not set foot out of Swindon or Tonbridge in their lives.

 

At the end of the day mate, like most people I would rather live in an area where all the people respect their neighbours, don’t break the law or generally cause a nuisance of themselves regardless of what colour skin or accent a person has. It must be said though that in this country most of the area’s that have large immigrant populations have a lower standard or living, a higher crime rate and lower moral values that what I would prefer to live in – saying this doesn’t make me racist it’s just a fact.

[Unrecognized Genius]

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
It must be said though that in this country most of the area’s that have large immigrant populations have a lower standard or living, a higher crime rate and lower moral values that what I would prefer to live in – saying this doesn’t make me racist it’s just a fact.

Lots of people in the South East suffer from living in areas like those you describe, but they wouldn't agree with your generalisation. In Gravesham, take King's Farm. In Dartford, take Temple Hill. Both so bad the police trialled dispersal orders, but neither areas with high immigrant populations.

EC

[Fleet Loyal]

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:

Quote:

Fleet Loyal said:
It must be said though that in this country most of the area’s that have large immigrant populations have a lower standard or living, a higher crime rate and lower moral values that what I would prefer to live in – saying this doesn’t make me racist it’s just a fact.

Lots of people in the South East suffer from living in areas like those you describe, but they wouldn't agree with your generalisation. In Gravesham, take King's Farm. In Dartford, take Temple Hill. Both so bad the police trialled dispersal orders, but neither areas with high immigrant populations.

EC

Take it from me mate, King’s Farm and Temple Hill are dodgy areas but it wouldn’t stop me walking through them. Although they can be a bit on top, they have got some way to go until their up their with your Toxteths’ and your Moss Sides’! Kings farm may have a few unsavoury characters and certain issues surrounding these areas but thankfully gun crime isn’t (yet) one of them.

There are far far worse areas in big cities than in small towns in Kent. But point taken anyway they are deprived and failing and not because of immigrants.

[Stu M]

Hmmm. Fleet Loyal, I can only presume your new avatar is your attempt to 'even the score' at people who complain about your Asylum badge. Funny way of showing how you're not too bothered about the colour of someone's skin as long as they're loyal to this country.

 

Or is there something else behind your 'thinking'...?

[Fleet Loyal]

Something Like that. Although I'm not sure what country she's loyal too. I doubt she even knows.

[Stu M]

But why bother? What point are you making? You may think UG a commie pinko, or me a wet liberal, but we don't need to ram our point home on a football forum with an icon of Stalin or George Galloway. A flag with 'No Asylum' and a woman with a burkha and the name Fleet Loyal. It says to me you've got one issue, and while you couch it in supposedly intelligent argument at times, you've got some serious prejudices as the main motivation behind your political rhetoric.

[Fleet Loyal]

Not hungry pal, so look for your bite elsewhere.

[Stu M]

Not looking for a bite 'pal', just you've always had an answer before to justify yourself.

 

You may not be hungry now, but you've obviously been famished before, eager to get the last word in... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/whistling.gif" alt="" />

[Unrecognized Genius]

Stu. You've spoilt it all for me now. I thought our Loyal friend had posted a personal snapshot and had been having us on all along.

 

Whilst I had many friends who were on the far left when I was at University, I always knew it was more youthful posturing than real belief on their part and anyway if you weren't with them, you had to ally yourself with that awful toad Andrew Lansley who actually got elected as leader of the Student Union for the year after I left and is now in the shadow cabinet (though thankfully probably less well known nationwide than you or me.)

 

As for Stalin, I'd rate him alongside all the other modern day mass murderers.

 

Your last sentence says it all, though and I'm sure many people can see that too, whatever their political alleigance. That's what I find so annoying about the Tory stance. Michael Howard sounded completely reasonable most of the time last night when he spoke about immigration and asylum, but I know and he knows why he decided to put these issues at the top of his political agenda. He's a shameless opportunist and he isn't in the least worried about getting people to vote for him out of prejudice or ignorance. Fleet Loyal and Fleet fanatic have both revealed they are voting Tory almost overwhelmingly because of the immigration issue and they both reveal what I (Commie Pinko as I am) would call prejudices.

 

The really disappointing thing is that we need a serious and sensible debate on immigration and we never get it. It's just used as a political football. Rather like Europe, on which we never get a sensible debate either, the right aided and abetted by their holy scriptures, the Mail & the Express, just use the issue as a means of whipping up populist support.

 

To be honest, I've actually quite enjoyed some of the argument with FL, when he deploys his brain, which I respect, rather than his prejudice or childish tendencies (new avatar, graemlins alongside name of poster with different views) which I don't.

 

EC

[FleetFanatic]

Quote:

Unrecognized Genius said:
Fleet Loyal and Fleet fanatic have both revealed they are voting Tory almost overwhelmingly because of the immigration issue and they both reveal what I (Commie Pinko as I am) would call prejudices.EC

Prejudices? Oh please.

I have given the immigration debacle as a reason but I have also given other reasons.

Which one would you like?
This list is off the top off my head and I'm sure that there's more.

Immigration?
The Iraq war & the lies that went with it?
The prospect of even more taxes & national insurance contributions - New Labour is fast becoming the old 'tax and spend' Labour.
The fact that council tax has doubled in five years, along with the diversion of funds from central office to northern Labour supporting areas at the expense of us, along with the imminent adjustment of council tax bands to fleece more cash out of us?
Law and order spiralling out of control?
The massive increase in Incapacity Benefit claimants so that it looks like Labour are keeping down unemployment?
The Human Rights Act that Cherie Blair has made so much money from? Do you know anybody who has benefitted from this? It seems to merely be abused by ethnics, criminals and the rich.
Blair's wish to sign up to the constitution that will finally take nearly all of the UK sovereign rights away?

Let's not forget Gordon Brown's superb handling of the economy he inherited in good shape from the Tories - for all their mistakes, they had turned it round before getting voted out. So good old Gordon then sold off our gold reserves and below market value, robbed all our pension funds then had the cheek to declare recently that we aren't putting enough in our pensions!

All you politically correct Guardianists on here slagging off those who voice concerns really do need to take the blinkers off - otherwise you find more of your money going in even higher taxation with no real improvements to show for it. One day you'll wake up and discover that we're not British anymore but simply European.