Video evidence?

[ken]

With the incident at Old Trafford last night I was wondering what people thing of video evidence being used in the game.

 

I for one am against video evidence being used, as I feel it will slow the game down to much, will make every single tackle one of contention but most of all will cause a gap between the different levels of football.

 

I am though in favor of sensors on the lines to tell if a ball has crossed the line. Such technology has been around for a long time and is used very effectively in many sports.

[pabird]

Lets face it the sensors would only be needed at Old Trafford and Woolwich

Just to difficult to be believe in coincidence that it is always at the same grounds

[CIFCislander]

I agree exactly with ya ken.

It would definatly slow the game down and interupt the flow of play

[Merv]

It’s easy to see the advantages of video referees when you get an incident like the one at Old Trafford last night. There have been one or two other decisions recently where an extreme event, that might have turned the game, could have been correctly decided if only video evidence had been available. But let’s take it on a step further. What about the off-side decisions? Unless the player is off by a mile, everyone appears to see these incidents differently, mostly the attacking fans see it as on-side, the defending fans see it as off-side. So will every single off-side flag be subject to an appeal to the video screen? And so many of those tackles – not just the penalty ones – could be suspect so perhaps they need video back-up as well. Was that a foul throw? Video please.

 

No, it’s not for me. The game would be played at a snail’s pace with interruptions every time the whistle is blown in order that the officials can go into a gaggle to look at the evidence. Every touch, kick and tumble would bring about an appeal with the resulting delays while different interpretations are put on the video playback in real time, slow motion, reverse angle and all the other tricks that will be demanded by managers.

 

As things stand, you win a few, you lose a few. I know it's hard but it usually levels out over a season. The obvious penalty appeal that is turned down one week is usually balanced by the handball that the ref. didn’t see the following week. It all makes for interesting discussion and debate on the discussion board the following day

 

We all know what will happen at Premiere level where money and expertise is no object, but how far down will the new technology reach? Will we see multi-camera positions at Park Lane in order to capture every move from at least four different angles? Will Ray Cross sit in a purpose built video editing suite, technology at his fingertips as he sends various video feeds to the different screens around the ground? Or will Canvey’s video facilities be similar to their website – two days out of date with only the information that the club wants us to have?

 

I would rather spend the money on professional referees with better training opportunities.

[Guest]

We do not need TV evidence all we need to do is put a chip in the ball and a sensor in the goal when the ball crosses the line a light flashes and the referee blows his whistle.

 

Imagine how cool that would be if you are behind the other goal and it goes in sometimes you just cant tell. Now a light would flash.

 

This would speed things up say there is a close decision and all the players surround the ref for 10 mins argueing all he needs to do is point to the light and say f*^k off.

 

Anyway FIFA are in Cardiff next week testing this system at the millenium stadium.

 

 

[A Non E Mouse]

Not for me either I'm afraid.

 

Also feel it would delay the game and cause to many interuptions with the game no longer flowing. We moan about officials now who are to picky and don't allow the game to flow.

 

I would also imagine that sensors may end up being the cause of contention. Sensors would need to be checked and possibly calibrated regularly and would need to be fairly robust. It will need to work when covered in mud, has no clear line of site and can work in heat (well occasionally!), rain and freezing conditions.

 

Will games still be called off it they are found not to be working correctly? will the FA become that dependent upon them to make the decision a non contentious one.

 

At which level do you draw the line in the footballing pyramid? At some level somewhere a club is not going to be able to afford it, as I imagine its implementation will not be cheap.

 

Merv makes a point which came to my mind - the officials.

 

I would prefer to see them not placed under such duress in being inspected every game. Money from the FA (presume thats where the cash would come from)should be made available for officials to attend regular training sessions, so they are more adept at "running" the game and keeping control. Perhaps the fourth official should be used more and in a greater capacity where the game is concerned. As Merv says "some you win, some you lose". Wouldn't it be quiet on here if we didn't have every other conference team having a bad day with terrible officials making terrible decisions costing them the game! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 

Lets face it decisions which cost clubs at this level happen every weekend. Its brought to light because it is the "glory clubs" and it gives the armchair fans something to view in the highlights over and over again.

[Guest]

Come on lets move forward.

 

Some time ago there was uproar, the same arguments about technology interfering with football.

 

You will not believe it some muppet only suggested putting a net across the goal imagine having to get untangled everytime somebody scored.

 

What would happen if someone fell into it.

 

"Goal nets were first used in football 110 years ago on 23rd March 1891. It was, however, many years before they were universally adopted, and the Laws of the Game still do not make them compulsory. Law 1 merely says that 'nets may be attached to the goals'. Their use is all down to competition rules."

 

WE HAVE THE SKILLS TO WATCH A GAME FROM A SATELITE.

 

If the national weather centre satelite was pointing at Old Trafford it could have proved the ball crossed the net.

 

We can put a strip inside the frame of the goal similar to that which stops elevator doors closing to soon, that will be able to read a chip inside the ball. It will be 100% accurate 100% of the time and will take 3.2 milli seconds to set of a flashing light behind the goal how can that slow the game down.

[The Monk]

At Wimbledon, in Tennis, they use line sensors to see if the ball goes out etc....why can't they put them in, in Football you ask?

 

For example, on a corner everyone goes up for a header, someone on the post puts their back foot over the line and BEEP! It wouldn't work...

 

I think it should be a bit like Cricket. There should be a 5th official that sits up in a little box with all the Sky SPorts technology watching every bit of play. If there is a desision the ref is unsure of he appeals to the 5th official for confirmatiom.

 

This would be a much better way, the ref appeals when he wants to and only inturupts the game momentarily. It would probably, like cricket, get used once a game, if that....

[CANV EFM]

if they could produce dirt cheap super reliable goal line sensors then im all for that..plus the lights flashing and the klaxxons going off would add to the goal celebration (ahem) but thats it nothing else.. leave it to the officials..

speaking of the officials why do they take so much sh.t from the players.. rugby was my game in my more youthful days, even at crap levels you have to call the ref sir and no one fronts him up.. mind you most rugby refs used to play the game and arnt 'up their own [censored]' ...

im sure , despite the crowds opinion most refs are reasonably with it individuals.. why not just tell both teams before the game that a bit of industrial language is fine but get in my face or double c..t me off and your off the park.. leave the abuse to the crowd

[Guest]

I have already said

"We can put a strip inside the frame of the goal similar to that which stops elevator doors closing to soon, that will be able to read a chip inside the ball. It will be 100% accurate 100% of the time and will take 3.2 milli seconds to set of a flashing light behind the goal how can that slow the game down."

 

The strip would only recognise the chip and it would not matter if someones foot got in the way.

 

FIFA are about to test this in Cardiff at the millenium stadium. It costs abot three hundred quid each set.

[A Non E Mouse]

Quote:

Come on lets move forward

 

Not saying we should not move forward, just how we move forward and in what areas.

 

As you say a sensor placed inside the ball with a strip running centrally in the poles and along the goal line is possible - I just feel the game could be more advanced in other ways.

 

Quote:

Goal nets were first used in football 110 years ago on 23rd March 1891.

 

Can you imagine being a fan in 1890 and standing behind the goal, "giving it large" as a fan and then getting hit by one of those big old leather medicine balls caked in mud and water. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 

If sensors are extended to the complete area of the pitch or we have video and "extra" officials to make decisions it will slow the game down.

 

I can see, and agree, with CanvEFM's comparison with Rugby - we should be looking at players attitude and the way we c**t the officials off - if they weren't slagged off so much perhaps the sport would attract better officials who may have actually played the game.

 

Technology is great (I'm using it now <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)but football is all about passion and anything that detracts from it is IMHO not good.

 

I don't care if the ball crossed the line in Manchester (thousands do)but I don't! Don't suppose some southern based, armchair, satellite viewing Manc fan cares about our games on a saturday. The one thing it has done is caused debate and passion amongst the fans - this wouldn't have happened if a light flashed and the ref blew his whistle and they all started over again. I like attending our crap ground in the depths of winter and having some controversial decisions to rant about - I don't want a sanitised game.

[smithyman]

I think the problem with the use of video/fifth official is that football has the capacity to be a free flowing game where stoppages could be limited. Cricket is easy to make use of video technology because essentially play stops after every delivery has been completed. In rugby, video is only used for tries because the play stops, irrespective of the decision. Football would be much more difficult. At what point does the ref stop the play and how does he restart the game once the decision has been made? Therefore I don't believe video can be used for offsides etc. - I think the sensor in the ball for the 'did it cross the line' incidents is about as far as it can go.

[Guest]

 

At its next meeting on 26 February, the IFAB will be presented with a proposed technological solution involving a microchip in the ball. Pending these discussions, these are the only people who can alter the laws of the game.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Why not have Goal Judges as they do in Ice Hockey?

The thought of strips in the goals and chips in the balls had my evil mind working, what if the system is faulty and the lights and klaxons went off everytime somebody used their Mobile phone???

I bet it wouldn't take some Electrical Genius long to find a way to set these devices off!

[pabird]

In this country I think it was Don Revie!s coaching that first got players hustling the ref

The FA just do not have the balls to rebalance the situation, you never had Brian Clough or Bill Nicholson players hustling ref!s why not? they were managed by men not mice

[American FLEET FAN No1]

They weren't players...........they were thugs!

[pabird]

Do you men Mr Clough and Mr Nicholson or players of yester year or players of today?

[Guest]

I said in an earlier post,

"At its next meeting on 26 February, the IFAB will be presented with a proposed technological solution involving a microchip in the ball. Pending these discussions, these are the only people who can alter the laws of the game."

 

IFAB make the rules and they are the only ones who can when they meet national FA's are able to put forward rule changes for a vote such as the pass back rule etc.

 

What do we think of these proposals they will be voting on this time around.

 

1. Yellow card if a player stand closer than two yards from a throw in.

 

2. Repeal the yellow card rule for raising shirt in celebration.

 

3. Technology in goal mouth (as discussed)

 

and a cracker from the Welsh FA

 

4 A player can not be off side if he is not in his opponents 18 yard box.

 

Rumour has it all four are favoured by the home nations FA's who have 50% of the votes.

 

I await and look forward to your comments gents.

[American FLEET FAN No1]

I meant Revies thugs!

[Exile]

Just a minor point: the home nations don't have more than 50% of the votes on the IFAB, but they do have 50%: as I understand it, there are four reps from the each of the UK FAs and 4 more from the rest of the world ! A bit of an anomaly which (so far) has not been addressed, although I can't believe it will stay that way forever. I can't see the offside change getting through, would lead to serious goalhanging (edge of the box hanging anyway). Sepp Blatter (FIFA boss) suggested changing the offside law to say a player could only be offisde if the ball was played to him while he was offside - can't see that one being passed either if it ever comes before the IFAB. Football is a simple game, let's try to keep it that way.