Support for President Putin.

[Big J R]

A serious topic of conversation for the saloon bar of The Pub today !

 

All flippancy aside, I have decided to have my rant of the week on here.

 

I CANNOT BELIEVE the amount of criticism President Vladimir Putin is receiving over the tragedy that has befallen his country.

 

It is said that his Government mis-handled the situation in School No 1. in Beslan when hundreds of innocent people, mainly children, were slaughtered.

 

What was he supposed to do ?

 

It was a total "Catch 22" situation. If he did nothing. these bast*rds would have reacted.

 

He sent in his crack special forces and the obvious ensued !

 

It was a total 'No-Win' situation.

 

My point is, that this act by so called Chechen Separatists was orchestrated in much the same way as 7/11 in New York.

 

Terrorism is obscene ! Killing innocent people is bad enough, but to target a school knowing that children would die is beyond belief !

 

I see President Putin has issued the following statement to some of his critics.

[color:"blue"]

"Why don't you meet Osama Bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace ?

 

"You find it possible to set some limitations in your dealings with these basta*ds, so why should we talk to people who are child-killers ?"

 

[color:"black"] Well said Mr President - You would have my full support if you decided to take immediate action again in Chechnia.

 

I have no doubt that Bin Laden is hiding somewhere behind this atrocity, and it is now time for ALL the super-powers to unite their security forces and stamp this evil cancer from our world for once and for all !

 

Over to you........................

 

 

 

 

[The Invisible Man]

Clearly it was a difficult (English understatement there!) situation for the Pres, and unfortunately it is next to impossible to bring these matters to a conclusion without some loss of innocent life. But it was equally clearly not handled terribly well.

 

It seems that there were no special forces at the scene, but a mish mash of troops from various local units in a wide array of uniforms. The area was not sealed off properly and the soldiers present appeared not to know what to do when the shooting started, and were blsting off in all directions. They blew a hole in the wall which brought the roof down. They declaared teh area clear when terrorists were still alive, armed and at large; probably hostages were also alive and in captivity. TV and newspaper crews were allowed to wander aroud the scene even at this stage, trampling over possible forensic evidence and putting themselves, and thus others, at risk not only from terrosist activity but also from collapsing buildings. The a number of terrosists almost escaped - I understand that the crowd apprehended some of them.

 

Finally there appears to been inadequate medical provision - very few ambulances wre ready.

 

Otherwise, fine!

[Mr Happy]

Listening to a former SAS soldier on the BBC on Sunday, his big critisism was the speed in which the forces went in. They had no real plan and took ages to get to the gym.

 

Putin should not be overly critisised for went on. However, the majority in Chechnia want independence and Russis should have given it to them ages ago so avoiding the original civil war. If the majority in Scotland wanted independence (and at the present it appears that they do not) would we send in our troops to quash any moves to achieve this. I think not.

[Burnham Lad]

It is not clear to me exactly what happened. Everybody in the media is talking as if the troops went in deliberately to crush the hostage takers. From the accounts I have read it seems there is a distinct possibility that one of the bombs suspended from the ceiling fell off and exploded and that one of the female suicide bombers thought there was an attack and blew herself up. This apparently made the kids panic and run for it (and who could blame them?) and the Chechens opened fire, so the troops atacked. If this is true, it is a black and sickening comedy of errors at which nobody can be laughing. Clearly the Russians did make mistakes, were totally unprepared and ill-equipped, but I don't think, if this is true, they can be blamed for going in once the shooting started.

 

And in any case, they wouldn't have been forced to make mistakes if the terrorists hadn't committed an act of total evil for which they can be no justification. It was the terrorist's sole responsibility for this tragedy. Forget the 72 Virgins, may they rot in hell!

[Barry Scott]

erm JR, I think it was 9/11 in New York. That aside, Putin was in a "no-win" situation as he was never going to back down over Chechyna which was the only peaceful way out. I still think that the hostage takers would have started killing people even if they had got their own way

[CANV EFM]

its was handled badly from an operational point of view.. people n film crews milling around troops with no plan to storm the building at the drop of a hat..or bomb.. not enough ambulances for a 'worst case scenario' etc blah etc..

the russians will be fked in that area for some time due to the behaviour of their own troops over the years.. lots of widows, widowers and orphans down there with nothing else to live for other than revenge.. you cant judge these people by our current standards its a situation thats out of control.. the IRA have blown up a fair few kids in their time..look where they are now!..

only thing for certain is that a lot more innocent kids will die.. welcome to the 21st century

[meldrew]

Chechnya is oil rich and I feel that Putin doesn`t want a fundamentalist Islamic state on his doorstep with access to the oil.Russia and the West have got to fight this Evil and although the tragic events in Beslan could have been reduced with a properly coordinated special force,those evil terrorists were never going to let those poor souls go.They refused safe passage from the Russian authorities earlier and with the premeditated placing of weapons and bombs during the school holidays,there was only going to be one tragic outcome to this situation.Muslims are not all terrorists,but it seems that all terrorists are Muslims.Islamic states cannot surely condone the brutal events in Beslan;the deliberate slaughter of innocent children is the most detestable of all crimes.We

need these countries to get of their oilrich arses and join the West`s fight against terrorism and stop their finances and safe havens.People can only take so much and I fear that law abiding Muslims in Britain could cop some fallout if these atrocities are allowed to continue.

[mala_D]

Quote:

meldrew said:
...I fear that law abiding Muslims in Britain could cop some fallout if these atrocities are allowed to continue.

Unfortunately there does not appear to be a prominent "peace movement" emerging from the Muslims in this country, which might reduce many people's natural hostility to this religion at this moment.

I'm ashamed to admit, my initial reaction to the news was "wipe the bastards out"...but once my knee-jerk anger had subsided I knew that we'd only be stooping to their hideous depths. I'm a parent...it hurt.

But whatever their quarrel with Moscow, there's no excuse for what those bastards did.

Does anyone else foresee a major global conflict occurring between the West and Islamic nations? That's if it hasn't already started....

[American FLEET FAN No1]

Unless the majority of peaceful Muslim people take matters into their own hands and crush the Terrorists.......Yes there will be a Worldwide war against Muslims and the peaceful ones will be caught in the crossfire!

[Barry Scott]

My dad said that the next global conflict would be against the muslims, but he called it five years ago

[Big J R]

'Er Indoors Grand-Dad said it would all kick-off in the 'Middle East', and he said that in the early 1970's !!

[mala_D]

The establishment of OPEC raised the hackles of the West, didn't it, JR.

 

Someone said that much of the conflict between Islam and the West could be solved if the Palestinian crisis was resolved. But somehow I'm not entirely convinced. Not now.

Islam is an ideology of sorts. And the Muslim's conflict with the West is based upon their righteousness over our "moral and social decadence".

And I'm niave to ask why the Muslims are so hung up about the Jews when both Old Testament and Q'ran are based upon violence; both adherents don't eat pork; and circumsision is mandatory in both faiths; plus Orthodox Hebrews and Muslims treat their women like [****!!****].

Seem like they have much in common to me. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Big J R]

....and as a previous 'poster' pointed out, very few Muslims in the world seem to have any contrition, or make a stand against violence.

 

I think President Putin's statement yesterday, that he will take the war to the terroist "ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD", speaks volumes.

 

It's no good the pinkist lefties an 'do-gooders' condemning his action against the killers of children.

 

Who knows ? It might just be THEIR children next !!

[The Invisible Man]

I'm not sure that anyone is knocking Putin for taking action, the criticism is for the bungled and incompetent manner of that action. A proper and co-ordinated response would not of course have garaunteed no or few fatalities among the hostages, that can never be so, but the likelihood of fewer deaths would have been far greater.

 

As one of the forum's few token pinkos, I can assure you I would have been all in favour of the despatch of the hostage-takers to their hereafter.

 

Sure, the Russions behaved abominably in Chechnya, and no doubt flattened a good many schools. Their actions there must border on state terrorism. However I would draw a distinction between a military action in hwich civilian installations are hit and the deliberate targetting of a school -or indeed leaving bombs in pubs or shopping centres.

[Big J R]

Sorry Invis !

 

No matter what action President Putin takes, he will have my full support !

 

Children are Children.

[mala_D]

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Grozny?

Probably not.

 

I'll support him if his hunt for the terrorists is more discriminate

....unlike the ol' todger in the White House who insists "collateral damage" is unavoidable.

 

 

[American FLEET FAN No1]

As somebody once said...........You can't make an Omelette without breaking Eggs(probably Fanny Craddock)! Seriously...the innocent are always the unwanted statistics of any armed conflict!

[mala_D]

yeah...but you don't carpet bomb the eggs into a pan. Rather you take each oeuf at a time, crack them, all the while being careful not to drop unwanted shell into said omlette.

[The Invisible Man]

Colateral damage, as our transatlantic cousins so quaintly describe it, is unavoidable. You can't go chucking great lumps of explosives about without something or someone that shouldn't getting hit/hurt. That is war, and one of many reasons why war should always be the last resort. People have become too obsesed by TV use of terns like"surgically removing" targets, it ain't like that. Sure, weapons are hugely more accurate than they were once, but like I said, they're not perfect.

 

It seems to me though that tere is a world of difference between genuinely aiming at a legitimate target, while knowing and accepting the risk of "colateral damage", and deliberately targetting the innocent.