ETFC long term future-DISCUSS

[Mr Happy]

This should create a good debate!

 

I was thinking about the long term future for ETFC. All supporters are ambitious for their club. I am sure we'd all like to see Town reach the Conference and may be go even further. However, to achive this would take some major financial input. We would need to be paying players on proper contracts and we would need a far better ground. The efforts done by the board and fans alike have been superb but (no disrespect intended here) are also fairly amateur. With spurs and Arsenal just down the road we are never going to attract a huge fan base so the money won't come from there and there is only so much money that people can fund raise. To my mind, the only way Town can achieve the pinnacle of non-league success and beyond is to attract a major investor. However, no one is just going to hand over a pot of money without having a say in where that money goes. Thus, such an investor wold require a major say in the running of the club. That would mean that our constitution would have to change as effectively one person or group would effectively control the club.

 

What do you all think about this? To get into the Football League at some point in the future would tyou be prepared to relinquish control in your club or would you be happy aachieving Ryman Premier status but not really going any further? Or, can anyone come up with any other realistic way of generating enough funds for Town to go further than this? I am undecided but what are everyone else's opinions?

[Gonzo]

As far as I am concerned the supporters run club we have at the moment was a means to an end, that end being the removal of Lazarou's control over football in Enfield. I for one would be more than happy for a single investor to come forward and throw wads of cash at the club. The recent decision to join the Ryman League shows that it's not easy to have all the society members make a joint decision.

 

ETFC need a ground in the borough of enfield. For this to happen we either need the council to give us a nice patch of land or we need an investor to buy us one and pay for the development. Realistically what are the chances of the council simply handing over land that they can make a pretty penny out of selling to developers such as 'Fairview' etc?

 

Would the club be open to either one of the society members or an outsider coming in and taking a significant say in club affairs?

 

The support is definitely there for ETFC to be a conference club, and, although ambitious, maybe the football league is a possibility.

 

 

[Squadron Leader]

 

 

Oh for a nice big Lottery Win!!!

[Mr Happy]

...and I was after realistic ways of getting the cash. There's more chance of Very Little Miss Happy behaving than that!!!!!

[Squadron Leader]

 

 

I know Mr Happy, but it's good to have a Dream is'nt it?

 

Little Miss Happy Misbehave. NEVER!!!!

 

Keep feeding her the Chocolate Buttons.

 

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

 

[lovely stuff]

I think Mr Happy has echoed what many of us have been talking about recently.

 

At some stage,to progress, we are going to need someone to come in with investment. In which case the clubs fans will have to relinquish some (if not all) control of the club,which could in the worst case senario,lead to another 'Lazarou' situation...Its a difficult situation, but i feel it may be the only option if ETFC ever want 'top-flight' football.

 

That's why i would have liked to see the club involve Lee Harding more in the early days,maybe with a view to becoming chairman.....It didn't happen and know Lee has invested his money in Braintree Town F.C.

 

 

[The Invisible Man]

The proper ambition for any football club is to play one division higher in the following season. If we reach the Ryman Premier (or its equivalent) and have no further ambition, what exactly is the point in continuing?

 

I would certainly not be happy for the club to become a rich person's plaything. The short or medium term benefits that may result will inevitably be followed by a rapid decline. Football is going to change radically soon, the present situation cannot continue indefinitely with two of three top premiership clubs becoming ever richer and dominating the game on and off the pitch, and other clubs making up the numbers if they survive at all. No-one will watch the game, the golden goose will have been killed. The Sky adventure surely cannot last for ever.The future lies in supporter-run clubs.

 

It will always be very hard (but not impossible, look at Gravesend/Canvey a couple of years ago) to compete with a club with a rich owner who is willing to buy success. You just wait for him/her to lose interest or die. But I don't know if I would be happy supporting such an artificial "club".

 

As for the recent decision to join the Ryman League, surely some pertinent questions will be asked at the AGM.

 

Why do people keep asking if the council will GIVE us a piece of land? This is cloud cuckoo land in the extreme. Why on earth should they? Indeed they are probably not ABLE to give property away as they are accountable for the assets of the borough. Therefore we cannot hope to purchase any land zoned for more profitable use such as housing or retail parks.

 

The club will have to remain self-financing and find a way of generating income. This will include supporters subscriptions and donations, gate money, sponsorships, any profits from football activities (transfers, prize money), and a very limited sum from ventures such as golden goal and raffle tickets,scratch cards and so on. Our own facilities would generate income from bar takings, catering, lettings, entertainments and so on depending on the facilities available. The catch 22 is having the money to provide the facilities to make the money....

 

Of course one day the FA will be run by decent and sensible and people and the huge income from TV rights will be distributed fairly throughout the game, right down to grass roots, instead of going more or less directly to Ferrari. The world will also be a fair and happy place with no war, oppression, poverty or injustice and a fair and equal distribution of wealth...............

[Squadron Leader]

 

 

And how many other clubs has he invested in as well? We would need someone who is looking for a LONG TERM investment.

 

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Gonzo]

Quote:

The Invisible Man said:
Why do people keep asking if the council will GIVE us a piece of land? This is cloud cuckoo land in the extreme. Why on earth should they? Indeed they are probably not ABLE to give property away as they are accountable for the assets of the borough. Therefore we cannot hope to purchase any land zoned for more profitable use such as housing or retail parks.

The council should 'give' us a piece of land because they are elected to manage and achieve the goals of the inhabitants of the borough. If 'the borough' wants a football ground and the council is able to grant the club some land then it should do everything in it's power to make this possible.

Of course I wouldn't expect them to simply give the land away, but I would expect to be head of the queue and to be treated to some special discounted rate.

Invis, how can we ever expect to achieve great things without either the council offering a helping hand or some investor jumping on board? We are stuck using someone else's facilities and not even receiving bar revenue. Maybe a current member of the Supporters Trust can bankroll the club whilst content to take a back-seat?!

[Guest]

Your ambitions are praiseworthy for ETFC but 'moneymen' bring their own problems as you well know historically.

 

I would just suggest that you are very careful before following that route.

 

You only need to look at the rollercoaster ride that Romford have had in recent seasons to take warning.

 

Maybe it's better to have a successful club comfortably playing at a lower level than all the baggage that comes with aiming higher and being reliant on one person's money and ego.

 

 

[Mr Happy]

Quote:

Squadron Leader said:


I know Mr Happy, but it's good to have a Dream is'nt it?

Little Miss Happy Misbehave. NEVER!!!!

Keep feeding her the Chocolate Buttons.

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It's not little Miss Happy I'm talking about it's Very Little Miss Happy. You've not met her yet but when you do..........???????????!!!!!!!!!

[lovely stuff]

The council owe the supporters land for a ground,for the simple fact that they were instrumental in selling of Southbury Rd.Thus depriving the supporters (and the borough) of a venue for non-league football.

 

The council OWE the (former) EFC fans BIG TIME.

[The Invisible Man]

Get this straight. The London Borough of Enfield owe us, EFC or ETFC, nothing. There are a quarter of a million people in the borough, and there is no reason why any group of 300 or so should be given public assets to pursue their own interests, any more than any other group, society or club. ETFC is actually run by a limted laibilty company.

 

EFC had a new lease on Southbury Road and whatever Bin Lazarou says, HE agreed to the sale. You can't blame the council.

 

Remeber how Saracens were driven out of the borough by a council disinterested in high level spectator sport? (Good thing too as it turned out)

 

Of course if there is a bit of council owned land that cannot reasonably be used for any other purpose, there is no reason why it should be sold or leased to ETFC at a reasonable rate. There may be grants and so on available, as there may be model railway clubs, stamp collecting clubs, archaeological societies or the cats protection league.

 

 

[andyetfc]

Can I just remind everyone that the present Council/administration did not get rid of Southbury Road, the previous administration did. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Leisure is not a statutory requirement whereas Education is and so a great deal of 'our' council tax goes towards schools, etc., and I have no problem with this. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There is no call on the Council to gve us a ground/land. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Mind you, they do have a statutory requirement to provide the good people of Enfield with a certain number of allotments! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

We have all got to work hard at generating money to run the club and supporters have been asked in many ways to contribute. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What we need is for the same supporters to try and cajole their friends to join the lottery, maybe make a donation or even take part in the new 'Match the Scores' game we are hoping to start next season. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />This would in fact be 'new' money coming from people who don't necessarily attend match days.

 

As for someone coming in with a cool £million, I think it's great. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />However, they will only get a £1.00 share, just like me or you. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If this were to happen, then we would really see if someone wanted to be a part of ETFC or whether they wanted to be the chairman with a casting vote over every decision that was needed to be made. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I would rather see them donate the £999,999.00 to the club and work hard to make that money work for the good of the Club. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

Please send me a personal message with a cheque for the £1m asap <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

What a good thread! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

 

[Gonzo]

Excessive use of smileys.

 

There is no incentive for someone to hand over a large sum of money to the club if they get no say in how it is used. Perhaps, if the board had previously shown flawless judgement and business acumen, but they haven't.

 

 

[Ron Merlin]

Should a major investor come forward, we could always discuss amending the club's constitution to let that investor have a large percentage share of the club (less than 50%, naturally) and some kind of management post on the committee. This would have to be agreed at an EGM, I would imagine.

 

[andyetfc]

The smileys are better looking than you. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[lovely stuff]

Quote:

The Invisible Man said:
Get this straight. The London Borough of Enfield owe us, EFC or ETFC, nothing.

Enfield council were 50% reponsable for selling Southbury RD and received 50% of the profit.....Then realising how much they had stitched the fans up,set up a committee with Laz and the supporters,to try to find the fans a site for a new ground (didn't the council give Laz the option of three sites). Of course Laz wasn't interested....are any of those sites still available.?
And saying that it wasn't this council regime that sold Southbury rd,is a cop out....Try telling that to a company that is owed money from the council regarding a project 10 years ago.The excuse of [it wasn't this regime] would cut no ice at all.

The truth is, the council won't make ammends for the sale of Southbury Rd ,because every bit of land in the borough can be sold at a vast profit to 'Fairwiew',thus getting the council out of the reaccuring financial disaster's they annually find themselves in.

[The Invisible Man]

Well no. EFC had a brand new lease on the ground. The council could not have sold it without the agreement of the leaseholder, i.e. EFC, i.e. Laz. He could - should - have said no, or only if the sale deal includes the provision of a new ground within Enfield.

 

Not all land can be sold and the use of any land is subject to complex planning laws and what used to be called the UDP.

 

Andy has summed it all up pretty well.

[The Invisible Man]

Precisely the point Gonzo. What is the incentive for me to pay my subs every year and the (regrettably) small contribution I make every month? It is not for control of a football club or for the sake of my own ego. It is because I like football, I support the club bearing my home town's name and I beleive in its ideals.

 

If I had a million quid (come on Mr Littlewoods, it's about time!) I would gladly write Andy that cheque and expect my share in the say in how it is used, along with all other members - no more and no less.

 

I can't believe that after only three seasons the sale of OUR club is being advocated.