Maidstone United 4-0 Enfield Town

[Barney]

1 minute ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Lets be very clear: Chelmsford were really not very good. It strikes me that that was probably the most important difference.

Wasn't at the game, but agree completely... and there are enough sides that aren't miles better than us for us to secure the points we need to survive - we just need to find a way to consistently beat them. That's how I'll judge Gavin and the team, not on a 4-0 defeat away to Maidstone.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

17 minutes ago, Barney said:

Wasn't at the game, but agree completely... and there are enough sides that aren't miles better than us for us to secure the points we need to survive - we just need to find a way to consistently beat them. That's how I'll judge Gavin and the team, not on a 4-0 defeat away to Maidstone.

So what about the defeats already this season to Aveley, Bath, Hemel and St Albans? Thats 12 points there which would put us comfortably out of the relegation zone.

[Barney]

6 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

So what about the defeats already this season to Aveley, Bath, Hemel and St Albans? Thats 12 points there which would put us comfortably out of the relegation zone.

100% - poor results and games that we could have won (although we did beat Bath). Those are the types of games we can win, and whilst we're clearly not going to win all of them, we should have picked up more points from them than we did.

[Towningaround]

2 hours ago, Barney said:

Genuine question, is the issue the formation, or the personnel?

In short both!

Ive been very vocal for a long time now about the insistence of Gavin in playing a lone striker with Youngs as the second striker or with two “10s” behind a lone striker. 

2 hours ago, Barney said:

far as I can tell, without having gone to either game, the formation we started with was the same for Chelmsford and Maidstone, with Youngs just behind a lone striker, a back 3, wing backs and 3 in midfield. Smith came in for Tuck, which I think is like for like - I've not seen much of Smith, but I don't think he's set the world alight the times I have seen him. Obviously Payne for Peake is a downgrade from an attacking perspective, and hopefully he was just unavailable today, and back next game.

 

It’s been the same formation for much of the season. Initially there was some sympathy towards it based on the lack of options and often there only being one striker in the squad. 

However that’s not the case now and hasn’t been for a number of weeks while Gavin has made several signings of strikers but each time resorting to playing the “new guy” up front alone, without, it seems, realising that each of them have suffered from the same thing….isolation!!!

2 hours ago, Barney said:

So the main difference is that Kaunda came in for Hutchinson. It's impossible for me to comment on Kaunda, having not seen him play, and I do rate Hutchinson (maybe not as much as you do), so is your main issue that Hutchinson didn't start, as that would be consistent with many of your posts since you joined the forum?

I was at the game last week when Kaunda made his debut as a sub. I was the first to comment that at last it seemed Gavin had made a forward signing that seemed a) worthwhile b) capable and c) like a good partner for the striker he played with (Hutchinson) whereas previously I was not taken with either Shakpoke who I thought was bloody awful (not been seen or spoken of since!!) and despite thinking Chukwu was a decent signing based on our game v Welling I was warned by a welling player that he was in fact also bloody awful….3 starts, 3 blanks, 0 shots on goal and 3 losses confirmed that.

Last week we looked a decent outfit for much of the game (I agree Chelmsford were awful!) but the last half hour with 2 up front we looked potent at least. Hutchinson and Kaunda linked several times with Kaunda looking and handful running off of Hutchinson. 

Whichever way you look at it today, we didn’t deviate from our normal formation and the one we used for last weeks game…..there was then no need to change much of the personnel other then where needed ie Peake (big miss) who was missing and Tuck. 

Payne coming in for Peake makes sense albeit completely inadequate as a replacement and Kaunda should’ve come in for Tuck with a minor reshuffle of players to play in their more natural positions!! It wasn’t even hard.

It really wasn’t hard.

Payne replaces Peake. 

Browns reverts to his more natural role as a ball winner rather than a “10” and plays alongside a dependable Parcell. 

Youngs….an attacking midfield player plays as an attacking midfield player who drops in to defend when needed

Kaunda who looked really lively playing WITH Hutchinson comes in to play two up front. 

But we decided today that Smith…who hasn’t played for months…who is a holding midfield player should play as a second no “10” and Kaunda a young inexperienced pacy run in behind type should play as a lone striker and be asked to hold the ball up and Hutchinson who’s performed well last week in the 2-1 win and who scored twice in the last win we had, before being bombed out for Chukwu, is left out completely.

It’s beyond nonsense.

2 hours ago, Barney said:

At the risk of repeating myself, and boring everyone, I think there are games in this league that we aren't going to win, no matter what we do with personnel, formation or tactics. It's the games like St Albans, where we weren't the worst side on the day, and should have done better that are hurting us most, and likely going to see us getting relegated unless we can find a way to consistently win them.

There are and have been games we should’ve won. And I agree today’s game v Maidstone was a free hit with nothing expected from it. But it’s the ongoing refusal to have a go that frustrates me and others. If today was a free hit then have a hit at it!!!

The one up front has cost us too many times already in games we could’ve or should’ve won.

I do rate Hutchinson yes. It frustrates me when others don’t appreciate what he gives us but each to their own. But my personal opinion is Gavin has f*cked him over. 

He scored his first goal v Chesham which will have given him a boost. Following game we drew v Salisbury and then the following game he was bombed out for Dorking and both games v Hornchurch while Gavin gave Shakpoke a chance who managed the square route of nothing in three games before being ‘let go’.

Hutchinson was then recalled v Torquay, scored the following week v Sittingbourne, scored TWO more the following week v Tonbridge before playing again in the draw with Weston. He was then bombed out AGAIN while Gavin gave Chukwu his chance. 

Chukwu then did the square route of nothing in 3 losses on the spin before Gavin recalled Hutchinson again for the Chelmsford game which we won!! Weird huh?

Having won for only the second time since Weymouth on 5th October, he was then bombed out AGAIN today in order to give Kuanda a chance….who plays 90 mins without a shot on goal!!

Since Chesham Gavin has basically played 4 different forwards. All played alone up front.

Hutchinson has started 6 and scored 4

Shakpoke started 3 and scored 0

Chukwu started 3 and scored 0

Kaunda started 1 and scored 0

None of those forwards has played up front in a game with any of the others!!!  

NOT ONE!!! Yet it’s Hutchinson who keeps being replaced!!

I like a few numbers so how about these :-

We’ve scored 25 league goals. Before Hutchinson signed we’d scored 5 goals since he’s signed we’ve scored 20…16 of those came in games he started!!

We’ve got 18 points. Before Hutchinson signed we had 6 points. Since he’s signed we’ve got 12 points and 11 of them have come in games he started!!!

Sam Youngs is top scorer with 8. Before Hutchinson joined he had 1 goal! Of his 7 goals since then Hutchinson has been his strike partner for 5 of them!!

Hes only started 10 games!!!

So while he may not have stood out individually to the layman’s eyes it’s quite evident that he does actually contribute to the team with his movement and his work rate and he clearly contributes to the team being more of an attacking threat and one that is more likely to pick up points. 

Hes scored goals at this level before and the league above and I just cannot understand Gavin’s insistence on there must be something out there that’s better rather than give him a sustained run in the team and offer the opportunity for him and another striker to actually have some bloody help and see if they can make a success of it!!
 

Edited 2 hours ago by Towningaround

[TULACH ARD]

What can I say?

They were first to every first ball and first to every block.

Just hope the shennanigans in the 'home' end involving our 'Under 25s' doesn't come back on our club 🤞🏻

Several Maidstone fans told me the only game they'd had segregated so far this season was Welling United!?!?

So what happened?

Edited 2 hours ago by TULACH ARD

[Barney]

2 hours ago, Towningaround said:

In short both!

Ive been very vocal for a long time now about the insistence of Gavin in playing a lone striker with Youngs as the second striker or with two “10s” behind a lone striker. 

It’s been the same formation for much of the season. Initially there was some sympathy towards it based on the lack of options and often there only being one striker in the squad. 

However that’s not the case now and hasn’t been for a number of weeks while Gavin has made several signings of strikers but each time resorting to playing the “new guy” up front alone, without, it seems, realising that each of them have suffered from the same thing….isolation!!!

I was at the game last week when Kaunda made his debut as a sub. I was the first to comment that at last it seemed Gavin had made a forward signing that seemed a) worthwhile b) capable and c) like a good partner for the striker he played with (Hutchinson) whereas previously I was not taken with either Shakpoke who I thought was bloody awful (not been seen or spoken of since!!) and despite thinking Chukwu was a decent signing based on our game v Welling I was warned by a welling player that he was in fact also bloody awful….3 starts, 3 blanks, 0 shots on goal and 3 losses confirmed that.

Last week we looked a decent outfit for much of the game (I agree Chelmsford were awful!) but the last half hour with 2 up front we looked potent at least. Hutchinson and Kaunda linked several times with Kaunda looking and handful running off of Hutchinson. 

Whichever way you look at it today, we didn’t deviate from our normal formation and the one we used for last weeks game…..there was then no need to change much of the personnel other then where needed ie Peake (big miss) who was missing and Tuck. 

Payne coming in for Peake makes sense albeit completely inadequate as a replacement and Kaunda should’ve come in for Tuck with a minor reshuffle of players to play in their more natural positions!! It wasn’t even hard.

It really wasn’t hard.

Payne replaces Peake. 

Browns reverts to his more natural role as a ball winner rather than a “10” and plays alongside a dependable Parcell. 

Youngs….an attacking midfield player plays as an attacking midfield player who drops in to defend when needed

Kaunda who looked really lively playing WITH Hutchinson comes in to play two up front. 

But we decided today that Smith…who hasn’t played for months…who is a holding midfield player should play as a second no “10” and Kaunda a young inexperienced pacy run in behind type should play as a lone striker and be asked to hold the ball up and Hutchinson who’s performed well last week in the 2-1 win and who scored twice in the last win we had, before being bombed out for Chukwu, is left out completely.

It’s beyond nonsense.

There are and have been games we should’ve won. And I agree today’s game v Maidstone was a free hit with nothing expected from it. But it’s the ongoing refusal to have a go that frustrates me and others. If today was a free hit then have a hit at it!!!

The one up front has cost us too many times already in games we could’ve or should’ve won.

I do rate Hutchinson yes. It frustrates me when others don’t appreciate what he gives us but each to their own. But my personal opinion is Gavin has f*cked him over. 

He scored his first goal v Chesham which will have given him a boost. Following game we drew again v Salisbury and then he was bombed out for Dorking and both games v Hornchurch while Gavin gave Shakpoke a chance who managed the square route of nothing in three games.

Hutchinson was then recalled v Torquay, scored the following week Sittingbourne, scored TWO the following week v Tonbridge before playing again in the draw with Weston. He was then bombed out AGAIN while Gavin gave Chukwu his chance. Chukwu then did the square route of nothing in 3 losses on the spin before Gavin recalled Hutchinson again for the Chelmsford game which we won!! Weird huh?

He was then bombed out AGAIN today in order to give Kuanda a chance….who plays 90 mins without a shot on goal!!

Since Chesham Gavin has basically played 4 different forwards. All played alone up front.

Hutchinson has started 6 and scored 4

Shakpoke started 3 and scored 0

Chukwu started 3 and scored 0

Kaunda started 1 and scored 0

None of those forwards has played up front in a game with any of the others!!!  

NOT ONE!!! Yet it’s Hutchinson who keeps being replaced!!

I like a few numbers so how about these :-

We’ve scored 25 league goals. Before Hutchinson signed we’d scored 5 goals since he’s signed we’ve scored 20 since…16 of those came in games he started!!

We’ve got 18 points. Before Hutchinson signed we had 6 points. Since he’s signed we’ve got 12 points and 11 of them have come in games he started!!!

Sam Youngs is top scorer with 8. Before Hutchinson joined he had 1 goal! Of his 7 goals since then Hutchinson has been his strike partner for 5 of them!!

Hes only started 10 games!!!

So while he may not have stood out individually to the layman’s eyes it’s quite evident that he does actually contribute to the team with his movement and his work rate and he clearly contributes to the team being more of an attacking threat and one that is more likely to pick up points. 

Hes scored goals at this level before and the league above and I just cannot understands Gavin’s insistence on there must be something out there that’s better rather than give him a sustained run in the team rather than offering the opportunity for him and another striker to actually have some bloody help!! 
 

Pretty thorough answer 😁👍

I find myself agreeing with a lot of it, I do think Hutchinson is a decent player - soon after joining, his part in our goal against Farnborough made me think he had something about him, and he works hard and has an eye for goal. Also agree he's not that well suited to being a lone striker, although he's no worse in that role that almost everyone else we've tried.

With that said, I'm still not convinced we'd always be better off playing 2 up front, especially against the better sides - I think we'd end up seeing even less of the ball and still getting beaten, maybe by more. We've also had a couple of games where we have got results against better oppo by keeping it tight, frustrating them and nicking a goal.

There have been games I've seen where we did play 2 up with Hutchinson and Ottaway, and we looked decent at times, but of the two I saw, we beat a weaker side (Weymouth), then lost fairly heavily to a better side (Farnborough). I still think its horses for courses, the St Albans game was crying out for someone to take one of the chances we created, and I'd love to see us line up more positively against the cluster of sides around and above us who we aren't going to dominate possession and win all the battles.

In summary, I'm very much on the fence as always...