Boxing Day Borehamwood

[djwilf]

No surprise by the gulf in class yesterday.

Cant remember Ashmore having to make a tough save.

1st goal shows what we re up against...quick kick by Rhys, intercepted and 1 pass later we re 1 down.   2nd before half time couldnt have come at a worse time and 1st half was largely chasing shadows.

2nd half they werent as positive and saw the game out quite comfortably.

Sides at this level are SO much more clinical and we cant hold the ball against these better sides.

Their right back was decent against Lennon we dont seem to know what to do in the attacking third.  

Hoping we can be better against St Albans.

[Shep]

I know not many will agree with me but we should have given Marcus a month to find a new club willing to pay or told him he had to see the season out.  We were always in trouble from when he was sold so late with no replacements in mind.  Though I think no-one guessed how long the failure to find any replacement would last…….

[lovely stuff]

20 hours ago, Albury_Walker said:

Never mind Townies . You still have your cup final V Amber's to look forward to next season.  You are 4 wins away from safety and that's assuming everyone else loses.  Can't see you have 4 wins in you to be honest  . Failure to beat saints will mean it's dig your grave time  .

Picking up 3 points every Boxing Day is one of the few positives from going down i suppose. Also gives our local rivals a cup final and one decent attendance per season. Might be nice to play at the old Cheshunt ground one more time as well before the flats go up.

[Towningaround]

This nonsense about how everything would’ve been rosy had Marcus stayed is starting to make my p!ss boil.

There’s no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Marcus would’ve made the step up any better than anyone else who did well last year and who is now finding life difficult!

As a forward he would have been the first and the hardest hit by the players struggling and the lack of service and lack of opportunity to score goals in a team so clearly struggling physically, technically and tactically would’ve hit him as much as it’s hit anyone else who’s had to fill the lone striker role with 10 other players 30 yards away!!!

Ive not been a fan of all our strikers by any means but you can count on one hand the combined total of missed chances we’ve seen! We don’t create much at all and that’s largely due to the lack of quality in the side and also down to the completely negative uninspiring set up of the team each week.

Marcus would have found scoring goals in this team as difficult as anyone else has.

Also, going on what I’ve seen recently, had he managed to get a bit of form going, Gav would’ve dropped him anyway 🤣😉

[andyetfc]

3 hours ago, Barney said:

Worried, of course - we're probably at peak worry at the moment with the size of the gap to safety. I just don't see any point in being negative, we don't gain anything from it in my view. 2 games ago, everyone was talking about us having a good chance of getting out of trouble, having picked up 4 points from 6, and were being very positive (even the two or three ultra pessimists on here). Our next two games were against two very good sides, and we've been beaten in both - was this wholly unexpected? What's changed? We still need to be beating the sides in and around the bottom if we're to have any chance - picking up a few points against the better sides will help, and we've taken 4 points from 4 games against 4 very good sides (in my view). Of course we have to start winning games like St Albans next up, but we're not dead and buried even if we don't... of course it's a massive massive ask to get ourselves out of trouble, but stranger things have happened, and the only thing that's really changed between that equaliser against WSM and now is that other teams above us have picked up points.

If we do go down, life goes on - we reset and go again. Of course it'll be very difficult, and will require a rebuild. It might take a number of seasons to be ready to challenge again to go up, but that's the nature of being a fan owned club. You need patience, and to accept that the overnight quick fix and rise up the leagues isn't going to happen (but on the flip side, we own our club, and there's no chance of the money taps being turned off, and us dropping down the divisions as a result either). Spend some time in the Isthmian, build up our infrastructure, increase our fan base, improve the revenue streams, and take onboard everything we've learned about these last 6 months to give us a better chance of being sustainable at step 2 when the opportunity next presents itself. Yes it's not a great situation, but that's football unfortunately - we've been very lucky that almost all seasons we've been in existence, we've been challenging at the right end of the table, but we have no divine right to be in a certain division, and as we're finding out, we need to be fully ready to be up here. I do think that longer term we can sustain ourselves at this level, but I'm not sure when that will be. It will be interesting to get the board's take on things at the next members meeting, as I'm sure there are a lot of things going on in the background that we've not even considered as casual supporters.

‘Build up our infrastructure, increase our fan base, improve revenue streams…… No matter what division a team is in, a winning team will help with the above. However, a team being relegated, now that’s a completely different story.

[ETFC2001]

3 hours ago, Barney said:

Worried, of course - we're probably at peak worry at the moment with the size of the gap to safety. I just don't see any point in being negative, we don't gain anything from it in my view. 2 games ago, everyone was talking about us having a good chance of getting out of trouble, having picked up 4 points from 6, and were being very positive (even the two or three ultra pessimists on here). Our next two games were against two very good sides, and we've been beaten in both - was this wholly unexpected? What's changed? We still need to be beating the sides in and around the bottom if we're to have any chance - picking up a few points against the better sides will help, and we've taken 4 points from 4 games against 4 very good sides (in my view). Of course we have to start winning games like St Albans next up, but we're not dead and buried even if we don't... of course it's a massive massive ask to get ourselves out of trouble, but stranger things have happened, and the only thing that's really changed between that equaliser against WSM and now is that other teams above us have picked up points.

If we do go down, life goes on - we reset and go again. Of course it'll be very difficult, and will require a rebuild. It might take a number of seasons to be ready to challenge again to go up, but that's the nature of being a fan owned club. You need patience, and to accept that the overnight quick fix and rise up the leagues isn't going to happen (but on the flip side, we own our club, and there's no chance of the money taps being turned off, and us dropping down the divisions as a result either). Spend some time in the Isthmian, build up our infrastructure, increase our fan base, improve the revenue streams, and take onboard everything we've learned about these last 6 months to give us a better chance of being sustainable at step 2 when the opportunity next presents itself. Yes it's not a great situation, but that's football unfortunately - we've been very lucky that almost all seasons we've been in existence, we've been challenging at the right end of the table, but we have no divine right to be in a certain division, and as we're finding out, we need to be fully ready to be up here. I do think that longer term we can sustain ourselves at this level, but I'm not sure when that will be. It will be interesting to get the board's take on things at the next members meeting, as I'm sure there are a lot of things going on in the background that we've not even considered as casual supporters.

I was feeling very positive two weeks ago, yes. But a lot can change, like we’ve seen. Bath have now kicked on, and it’s going to take miracles to close that 9 point gap. Like you say, it won’t be a disaster to go down either, we’re obviously not ready and no one was expecting for us to go up last year. I just hope we don’t see the same mistakes if we ever get back up to this level.

I understand we might not be ready to take on this challenge of the NLS or higher but I think there’s other problems outside of money and recruiting. I wish these meetings was more accessible to the average fan on here or a person who goes every game.

[ETFC2001]

10 minutes ago, andyetfc said:

‘Build up our infrastructure, increase our fan base, improve revenue streams…… No matter what division a team is in, a winning team will help with the above. However, a team being relegated, now that’s a completely different story.

I don’t understand how we’re going to improve any of those anyways, no matter how the team is doing.

Numbers are always going to be limited as Spurs or Arsenal are one train journey between. Of course, premier league prices are rising so that might help us get a few more families in the door but I think we will always have a stable 500-800 unless we magically get to the National league.

Revenue streams have been talked about for years and we haven’t seen no improvement. One food stand on the A10 side, etc.

We’re always going to be a pretty side in step 3, but to be a noticeable team in step 2 and not a club punching above their weight, a lot of things need to be improved on and off the pitch. I just don’t have the answers on how they can improve

[Shep]

38 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

This nonsense about how everything would’ve been rosy had Marcus stayed is starting to make my p!ss boil.

There’s no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Marcus would’ve made the step up any better than anyone else who did well last year and who is now finding life difficult!

As a forward he would have been the first and the hardest hit by the players struggling and the lack of service and lack of opportunity to score goals in a team so clearly struggling physically, technically and tactically would’ve hit him as much as it’s hit anyone else who’s had to fill the lone striker role with 10 other players 30 yards away!!!

Ive not been a fan of all our strikers by any means but you can count on one hand the combined total of missed chances we’ve seen! We don’t create much at all and that’s largely due to the lack of quality in the side and also down to the completely negative uninspiring set up of the team each week.

Marcus would have found scoring goals in this team as difficult as anyone else has.

Also, going on what I’ve seen recently, had he managed to get a bit of form going, Gav would’ve dropped him anyway 🤣😉

Take it you didn’t see him play much then?  He wouldn’t have struggled at this level and our early season players would have known the balls to find him.  I’ve seen enough football over the years to recognise when a player has something special. 

[andyetfc]

I don’t think many people have the answers to the current issues. 

[Towningaround]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Take it you didn’t see him play much then?  He wouldn’t have struggled at this level and our early season players would have known the balls to find him.  I’ve seen enough football over the years to recognise when a player has something special. 

My point being no forward can survive and / or flourish without service and it’s nothing to do with “knowing how to find him” and everything to do with having the ability to find him in games where you’re outclassed out run and out thought. Which in all fairness most of the squad have been in most games all season….largely due to not being good enough for enough or well prepared enough to manage the step up from part time non league to what is now the serious end of non league and many full time footballers. 

Like it or not Marcus would’ve spent most games chasing lost causes, competing for ‘fight balls’, feeding off scraps and being isolated by team mates struggling to get any real foothold in a game. Just like every other forward we’ve had since.

Ive seen enough football to recognise that. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Towningaround

[Barney]

I'll try to reply to a few posts in parallel.

2 hours ago, Shep said:

I know not many will agree with me but we should have given Marcus a month to find a new club willing to pay or told him he had to see the season out.  We were always in trouble from when he was sold so late with no replacements in mind.  Though I think no-one guessed how long the failure to find any replacement would last…….

2 hours ago, Towningaround said:

This nonsense about how everything would’ve been rosy had Marcus stayed is starting to make my p!ss boil.

There’s no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Marcus would’ve made the step up any better than anyone else who did well last year and who is now finding life difficult!

As a forward he would have been the first and the hardest hit by the players struggling and the lack of service and lack of opportunity to score goals in a team so clearly struggling physically, technically and tactically would’ve hit him as much as it’s hit anyone else who’s had to fill the lone striker role with 10 other players 30 yards away!!!

Ive not been a fan of all our strikers by any means but you can count on one hand the combined total of missed chances we’ve seen! We don’t create much at all and that’s largely due to the lack of quality in the side and also down to the completely negative uninspiring set up of the team each week.

Marcus would have found scoring goals in this team as difficult as anyone else has.

I'm with Towningaround in that I don't think Marcus would have been the answer to all our issues at this level. He was clearly a very good player at the step below, and scored a lot of goals in a top 5 team. I'm sure he would have been a good player at this level had he stuck around, and I'm pretty sure better than anyone we've had playing for us this season, but you have to get him the ball in dangerous areas, and that's where we'd still have the same problem as we do now. When we're playing against teams who are better (and better funded) in every position from 1 to 11, and we're losing battles all over the pitch, and not seeing nearly as much of the ball in the attacking third as we did last year, we just wouldn't have created the chances for him to make that much of a difference. I do think we would have a few more points on the board had we had him from the start of the season, but I can't agree that we'd have been out of the trouble we find ourselves in at the moment. If we'd started the season with the 11 we have now, plus Marcus, I don't think we wouldn't be in as much trouble, but unless you have a player who is head and shoulders above everyone and who can pick up the ball deep, beat multiple players and make their own chances, one player isn't going to make that much of a difference.

I've said this before, but I'm not sure that the setup of the team this season should come as that much of a surprise to anyone - we set up last season to be difficult to beat as a foundation, so in a tougher league, it would be highly unlikely for the same management and coaching staff to rip up that plan, and start playing more expansively. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for us to have a go a little bit more (and hopefully we will against St Albans), but I can at least see the merits of doing what we're doing from a pragmatic point of view (don't shoot me down here), if we'd played two up front all season, what's to say we'd not be even worse off than we are now? All that said, I actually think we're more of a footballing side now (insofar as we retain the ball, maybe not so much do anything with it) with the likes of Tuck, 3 defenders who are comfortable with the ball at their feet, and two attacking wing backs, it's just that the starting point is being hard to break down.

2 hours ago, andyetfc said:

‘Build up our infrastructure, increase our fan base, improve revenue streams…… No matter what division a team is in, a winning team will help with the above. However, a team being relegated, now that’s a completely different story.

Of course it's not ideal, but I see it as a small backward step in an otherwise upward trajectory for the club since its foundation. No doubt if we go down, it may take some time to be as competitive as we were before at step 3, but I think we will get there again in time, and hopefully go one step higher again eventually.

2 hours ago, ETFC2001 said:

I was feeling very positive two weeks ago, yes. But a lot can change, like we’ve seen. Bath have now kicked on, and it’s going to take miracles to close that 9 point gap. Like you say, it won’t be a disaster to go down either, we’re obviously not ready and no one was expecting for us to go up last year. I just hope we don’t see the same mistakes if we ever get back up to this level.

I understand we might not be ready to take on this challenge of the NLS or higher but I think there’s other problems outside of money and recruiting. I wish these meetings was more accessible to the average fan on here or a person who goes every game.

If you're a member, then you can just turn up at the fans meetings as far as I'm aware (it's been a while since I've been to one). Even if you're not a member, I think you can sign up on the night and listen in / raise your concerns etc. I also think that they have been live streamed in the past for members who couldn't attend (hoping someone more knowledgable than I am can confirm / correct the above).

1 hour ago, ETFC2001 said:

I don’t understand how we’re going to improve any of those anyways, no matter how the team is doing.

Numbers are always going to be limited as Spurs or Arsenal are one train journey between. Of course, premier league prices are rising so that might help us get a few more families in the door but I think we will always have a stable 500-800 unless we magically get to the National league.

Revenue streams have been talked about for years and we haven’t seen no improvement. One food stand on the A10 side, etc.

We’re always going to be a pretty side in step 3, but to be a noticeable team in step 2 and not a club punching above their weight, a lot of things need to be improved on and off the pitch. I just don’t have the answers on how they can improve

I think you need to look at this from a slightly longer-term perspective. Season on season, it maybe doesn't look like we've made that many changes to how things work, and how we operate, but if you rewind 15 years or so, we didn't have our own ground and were sharing what was effectively a step 4 or 5 ground, which must have severely limited our revenue streams. Whether there are small, incremental improvements (e.g. better catering, developing the academy, more youth teams, better outreach / community engagement etc) or whether in future we do something like building a new bar/function room to help us increase matchday and hire revenue, these are all things that move the needle in terms of us being closer to supporting ourselves at step 2. Even the new stand and turnstiles that we will have built this season go some way to improving spectator facilities, and making us more ready next time around (that's £35k we don't have to find again). Being a member of a fan owned club is a patience game for sure, but I personally wouldn't have it any other way after the crash and burn of the old club - things might happen a lot more slowly this way, but I don't think we should underestimate what's been achieved since 2001.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Barney

[andyetfc]

It seems a lot of people have seen a lot of football. 

[Albury_Walker]

7 hours ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Here's a serious question for you, Albs: given that your little village team have been in Town's position and suffered a similar fate, what would/should Cheshunt do differently if they were to be promoted again in the future?

That's a fair question.  I don't really know the answer to be honest.  Perhaps try to keep the best players that got us promoted but that would of cost a considerable fortune and we had to spend over £220 odd grand upgrading the stadium so we couldn't possibly compete with the more established clubs . I have no doubts if we'd of held on to Crowther , McClean and Kassarate then we wouldn't of had such a disastrous start .  Also not beating relegation rivals  for example Concord away Chippenham away both conceded last second equalisers  losing to Hungerford at home losing to Dulwich twice. Should of won at Weymouth and not having an established penalty taker meant 3 or 4 crucial pens were missed were the telling factors .  You townies look like you have similar setbacks.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

2 hours ago, Albury_Walker said:

That's a fair question.  I don't really know the answer to be honest.  Perhaps try to keep the best players that got us promoted but that would of cost a considerable fortune and we had to spend over £220 odd grand upgrading the stadium so we couldn't possibly compete with the more established clubs . I have no doubts if we'd of held on to Crowther , McClean and Kassarate then we wouldn't of had such a disastrous start .  Also not beating relegation rivals  for example Concord away Chippenham away both conceded last second equalisers  losing to Hungerford at home losing to Dulwich twice. Should of won at Weymouth and not having an established penalty taker meant 3 or 4 crucial pens were missed were the telling factors .  You townies look like you have similar setbacks.

1. Its not until you get to consistently watch Step 2 sides that you realise just how much better they are than those at Step 3. Even putting the full-time sides to one side, they are all much more organised and better drilled.

2. There are clearly 2 divisions within NLS - the full-time clubs occupying the top 8 places, and then there's the rest hoping for a comfy mid-table spot and possibly a decent run in the FA Cup. So for most teams in NLS, the best they can hope for is avoiding relegation.

3. What I'm curious about now is the money. Is it financially better for a club of ETFC's or Cheshunt's size to be at Step 2 or Step 3? Do the increased ticket prices and attendances off-set the higher wage bill/travel costs? Is it easier to grow, make the necessary infrastructure improvements at Step 3 before really gearing up for the next level?

4. Anyone know whether Ryan Reynolds has got bored of Wrexham yet and fancies a new challenge in North London?

[wilson]

Being 12000 miles away gives me no right to observation on the current position of the team, in terms of management, budget or players. Suffice to say it has been a disappointing season so far. Mathematically our chance of staying up diminish with each loss and/or each victory of those clubs just above us. I note the comments on both sides of the debate re next season. To me the debate is simple- if we go down we just try again next season and the next. Look at the Isthmian league this year. Billericay, Dulwich Hamlet, Dartford, Whitehawk and not forgetting Cheshunt all had time in the National league structure. Dartford had about 15 consecutive seasons there until last season. It won’t be the end of the world. We will have the benefit of the current ground improvements and no doubt several new players.

i am a former director and current life member of a club here in Victoria. When I was immersed in all aspects of the club some years ago we went on a five year run that saw us promoted to the Victorian Premier League. We had by far the lowest budget in the league and we were competing against teams  with players who had played in the Australian National league. We gave it our best shot but it was a one year stay at the top. To make matters worse some of our better players got offered payments the following season that we had no hope of matching. So it became two relegations on the trot. The second was much harder to bear but we are still battling away trying to get promoted as high as we can.

Come what may I will be paying my membership and donation next season even though I will not get to any matches. I remain committed to what was started 23 years ago. I wish everyone at the club the very best.