Towners v The Gulls (1-4)

[ETFC2001]

3 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Gavin has explained in his post-match interview that prospective strikers are taking one look at the league table and saying "no thanks"!

And I can’t blame them, nor should anyone else. 

We was an attractive club to start this season - motions in place for a new shiny stand, a playoff win that was going to boost crowds and yet we still didn’t take enough of an advantage of it. And that’s on Gavin, the board, and the fans who have conversations with higher ups to not demand more for the betterment of this club. 

[ETFC2001]

15 minutes ago, djwilf said:

I don't blame Marcus for our position, but there is a perfect storm happening right now.   We were fully unprepared for this season, despite what Gavin has said about the hard work starting after the win v Chatham.     A manager will only be as good as his players and the revolving door policy has meant that the team hasn't settled and against the big boys our settled team isn't good enough, physically or tactically.   I guess the old maxim you have to speculate to accumulate is true here and yes we haven't had a striker all season long, and whilst the 2nd half yesterday some great balls were in the box you can't concede 3+ goals every game and expect a return.    

Yes we are a well liked club.....we've raised enough money for a shiny new stand however that isn't doing the job on the pitch.   Marcus had every right to move on, and to expect blind player loyalty is unrealistic in this day and age.   We haven't got enough quality in and it speaks volumes that our best players this year have been on loan from QPR and Derby C.   Adam has been a welcome addition but really we need 3 or 4 more of his quality which isn't really happening this late into the season.   We are lacking in so many departments and this season is only going to get longer and harder against tougher opposition.

Any updates on Alfie's injury? 

 

Was criticised by some on here but true to say, this forum has truly sprung to life with our current predicament.

 

 

 

 

 

I wish I was on this forum last year, would of been nice to celebrate two wins in a row 🤣.

The problems run way deeper then Wyllie leaving in the summer. We knew he was going to attract some big clubs in the football league, so was there no plan in place to have a list of names so if Wyllie did leave? I understand that might not be the whole picture but there’s no doubt in my mind we could of snapped up a proven striker before we started the season. We was an attractive proposition for many strikers, there’s no doubt in my mind about that.

We also did need quality in other areas, the defense definitely needed worked on, not just upfront, which we got in Mills who has already been recalled, Thompson, Cox etc. None of them will be here next season, wanting to play step 3 infront of 500-600 every weekend. No doubt crowds will take a hit too, in my opinion.

Hate to be a negative miserable person but let’s just say take every away day as a treat because no doubt this season will get more negative every week.

[Towningaround]

I’ve said this before in respect of strikers….theres no way on earth we are a place that many strikers are going to say “yeah go on, I reckon I can score goals there”!

They take a look at the league table, the goals scored column, the results, and possibly some may come and watch a game and anyone doing any of the above will deduce that we are a side that doesn’t have much of the ball, doesn’t create many chances, concede too many goals which means the ball is on our half more than the oppositions a fair amount and they’ll make a very quick decision that the likelihood is they’ll come into a side and within 4 weeks they’ll have people criticising them on the basis that they don’t look like scoring and that it must be because they aren’t good enough….

Fact is we may make small adjustments here and there and we may take a young player or one that’s not getting game time elsewhere but the most likely way out of this is to be coached better, worked harder, be better organised and tactically change the way we approach games. 
 

 

[ETFC2001]

10 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

I’ve said this before in respect of strikers….theres no way on earth we are a place that many strikers are going to say “yeah go on, I reckon I can score goals there”!

They take a look at the league table, the goals scored column, the results, and possibly some may come and watch a game and anyone doing any of the above will deduce that we are a side that doesn’t have much of the ball, doesn’t create many chances, concede too many goals which means the ball is on our half more than the oppositions a fair amount and they’ll make a very quick decision that the likelihood is they’ll come into a side and within 4 weeks they’ll have people criticising them on the basis that they don’t look like scoring and that it must be because they aren’t good enough….

Fact is we may make small adjustments here and there and we may take a young player or one that’s not getting game time elsewhere but the most likely way out of this is to be coached better, worked harder, be better organised and tactically change the way we approach games. 
 

 

Which is why I’ve said this is what should have been done before a ball was kicked this season.

Do you not think we was an attractive proposition for strikers/players  this season in the summer?

We can change whatever we want tactically, but if we do not have the mentality or quality to see games out or capitalise on chances when given to us, what else? 

Yes, we have looked terrible at times this season, no doubt I agree there has been questionable formations, tactics, revolving door as people like to bring up. I agree with that, but we are lacking so much quality in which we should of brought in the summer.

Edit: Organisation comes with concentration. Our players lack concentration, yesterday with Torquay, Chippenham, Hemel just a few examples of this season. 

Edited December 1 by ETFC2001

[No bull Towner]

We were not in a position to recruit and pay players speculatively whilst in step 3 last season. Nobody realistically expected us up until the final couple of weeks to possibly go up. Nobody realistically thought we would win the playoffs. The likes of Hornchurch assembled their squad for step 2 with promotion in mind and walked the league. As I recall when Gav and his coaching team came in it was a find your feet year with getting to play offs etc possibly the following year and within a couple of years going up. However, at the last moment we achieved the unimaginable and got promoted. We by no means bossed the league. There was no investment in step 2 players during that season as it wasn't a full on push/expectation to go up and like I said we don't have the budget to pay higher quality players on a just in case basis. Losing Marcus so late on was a blow and who knows if he was meant to be staying and at the last minute went out of nowhere...we are just guessing but he has proven hard to replace. We have brought in a few and tried but if they aren't clicking and aren't scoring no doubt they are expensive to keep around. At least we are trying to get different people in, I would be more worried if we weren't. But as was said in the interview and on here we are no longer an attractive proposition so unless we can get a good loan in or a player with an ego who is prepared to say 'you know what I could be a hero here' and have such self belief that he can create and score his own goals then we are pretty buggered. Many people make many good points and it is probably a combination of lots of them as to why we are where we are but the negativity and singling out of people is not helpful and won't change anything except drive people back off the forum. It's depressing to read it non stop and if we are truly honest with ourselves are we really that surprised that we're struggling? I'm not....I expected this but hoped for better and I'll keep hoping. That doesn't mean I'm accepting failure I'm just being realistic!

[andyetfc]

1 hour ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Gavin has explained in his post-match interview that prospective strikers are taking one look at the league table and saying "no thanks"!

Not a surprise.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

3 hours ago, andyetfc said:

Not a surprise.

True, but there has obviously also been a lot going on behind the scenes. Whilst we're fan-owned, most aren't privy to the reasons behind the high turn-over of players. Harry Ottaway is a particularly strange one. He looks to have played a pivotal role in Tonbridge's victory yesterday. It really doesn't look like Gavin is going to be able to bring in the saviour we need. Why would that be any different if he got us promoted back up to Step 2 again in a year's time?

[djwilf]

The emergency at Fiorentina tonight puts our situation into perspective.    

 

Hopefully the young Italian is alright and makes a full recovery.  ❤️❤️

[ETFC2001]

48 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

True, but there has obviously also been a lot going on behind the scenes. Whilst we're fan-owned, most aren't privy to the reasons behind the high turn-over of players. Harry Ottaway is a particularly strange one. He looks to have played a pivotal role in Tonbridge's victory yesterday. It really doesn't look like Gavin is going to be able to bring in the saviour we need. Why would that be any different if he got us promoted back up to Step 2 again in a year's time?

Don’t you feel like we should be more privy to the situation behind the scenes, as this is quite a rough patch for everyone involved with the club, I feel like questions should be asked and answered by people in power at this football club.

I don’t understand the situation with Ottoway, I thought it was a long term injury to his toe, so to see him starting for Tonbridge a month later really confuses me as he was probably the best striker we had at the club at the time. I imagine if something did happen behind the scenes we didn’t hear of, he’ll be more then happy to prove that we made a wrong decision again on the 10th of December.

I hope Gavin uses this as a learning experience to get recruiting done early if we ever make it up here again with him at the helm. In no way should we be asking 4 months on when a striker is going to magically appear, because quite frankly it isn’t going to happen now. If same patterns appear again with the same management group, we need to make changes.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

52 minutes ago, ETFC2001 said:

I hope Gavin uses this as a learning experience to get recruiting done early if we ever make it up here again with him at the helm.

But we DID start the season with strikers - Kasimu and Folivi. The problem was that Gavin didn't want to play two up front, so I'm not sure that they ever had the opportunity to play together!

It wouldn't surprise me if Gavin waits until we are officially relegated before fielding an 11 featuring 2 strikers - thats if we have 2 strikers then!

[ETFC2001]

15 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

But we DID start the season with strikers - Kasimu and Folivi. The problem was that Gavin didn't want to play two up front, so I'm not sure that they ever had the opportunity to play together!

It wouldn't surprise me if Gavin waits until we are officially relegated before fielding an 11 featuring 2 strikers - thats if we have 2 strikers then!

Correct we did, and I really liked both of them for their endless effort and I think either should of been given more of a real chance, but did we ever think for a moment they was going to get us 15-20 goals this season? 

Letting them go at the same time/close to the same time was a really confusing situation to me, but we obviously thought we could find better seeming as we let them seek football somewhere else. That gamble clearly did not work out, and I’m not sure why we didn’t keep a hold of atleast one. 

Edit: Talking about two strikers, he doesn’t trust even trust one striker at the club at the minute so how is he supposed to start two? And I’d have to back that decision 9/10 times out of 10 until we sign this magical striker that we’ve been looking for, for now 5 months.

Edited December 1 by ETFC2001

[Barney]

Not at the game, so can't comment on that - but has it been a case of us choosing to let decent players go, or players not being on a contract and therefore open to approaches/offers of more money or a more local club and deciding to leave?

[Barney]

...and I do tend to agree that the sheer amount of hand-wringing and negativity that goes on here when we lose is a bit over the top - did anyone realistically expect us to get anything from this game? Torquay are at a completely different level to us, and if I was told it would have been 1-4 before the game, I'd have shrugged and said 'on to the next one'. The only possible way that we're going to get out of this is to win games against the 8 or so teams at the bottom of the table, who aren't full time professional, and aren't miles better than us. It's still a massive ask, especially when you consider the head start we've given them, and seemingly a lack of confidence in the squad, but we've got to cling on to some hope, right? Even if not, let's enjoy those away days still, and try to back the team as much as possible.

Oh, and I'm not convinced that Towningaround isn't somehow connected to Hutchinson, or at least is in a position that's closer to the squad than most contributors on here, but he talks a lot of sense, and knows football based on his posts, so more than happy to have him contributing 👍

[The Crowing Cockerel]

6 minutes ago, Barney said:

Not at the game, so can't comment on that - but has it been a case of us choosing to let decent players go, or players not being on a contract and therefore open to approaches/offers of more money or a more local club and deciding to leave?

Sounds as if we've released more than have chosen to leave. I'm thinking of Kasimu and Ottaway being the obvious ones who were approached/bailed. Most of the rest Gavin seems to have decided weren't up to the job: Folivi, Krasniqui, Leshabela, Tanner, Mensah, Obi, Oli Knight, Owusu, Taaffe...etc

[The Crowing Cockerel]

3 minutes ago, Barney said:

Oh, and I'm not convinced that Towningaround isn't somehow connected to Hutchinson, or at least is in a position that's closer to the squad than most contributors on here, but he talks a lot of sense, and knows football based on his posts, so more than happy to have him contributing 👍

Agreed.

However, given his views on the manager I very much hope he isn't too close to the squad!

[Barney]

1 minute ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Sounds as if we've released more than have chosen to leave. I'm thinking of Kasimu and Ottaway being the obvious ones who were approached/bailed. Most of the rest Gavin seems to have decided weren't up to the job: Folivi, Krasniqui, Leshabela, Tanner, Mensah, Obi, Oli Knight, Owusu, Taaffe...etc

And to be fair, I think he's probably made the right call with at most of them... although as some have pointed out, it does come across as us constantly scrambling around to try to find the right player when that particular horse bolted in pre-season, or arguably before. The comment about us being caught out by promotion, and having not spent money or invested in step 2 players over the previous 12 months as we didn't expect to get promoted is probably quite close to the truth. That's not to say we don't want to be at step 2, it's just that as a club (and I'm not necessarily laying blame here), we seem to have been totally blind-sided by that Chatham win and hadn't been planning long term for this league leading up to that.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

28 minutes ago, Barney said:

And to be fair, I think he's probably made the right call with at most of them... although as some have pointed out, it does come across as us constantly scrambling around to try to find the right player when that particular horse bolted in pre-season, or arguably before. The comment about us being caught out by promotion, and having not spent money or invested in step 2 players over the previous 12 months as we didn't expect to get promoted is probably quite close to the truth. That's not to say we don't want to be at step 2, it's just that as a club (and I'm not necessarily laying blame here), we seem to have been totally blind-sided by that Chatham win and hadn't been planning long term for this league leading up to that.

But then the problem is that he also made the wrong call in recruiting/retaining those players in the first place! Recruitment and style of play haven't complemented each other. Gavin has been dreadfully exposed. At the very least he has to be judged on results against the likes of Aveley, Welling, Bath, Salisbury, Weymouth, Chippenham, Hemel, Hampton, St Albans. And lets not forget that two sides not very far above us have recently 'changed' managers - St Albans and Weymouth.

[lovely stuff]

52 minutes ago, Barney said:

...and I do tend to agree that the sheer amount of hand-wringing and negativity that goes on here when we lose is a bit over the top - did anyone realistically expect us to get anything from this game? Torquay are at a completely different level to us, and if I was told it would have been 1-4 before the game, I'd have shrugged and said 'on to the next one'. The only possible way that we're going to get out of this is to win games against the 8 or so teams at the bottom of the table, who aren't full time professional, and aren't miles better than us. It's still a massive ask, especially when you consider the head start we've given them, and seemingly a lack of confidence in the squad, but we've got to cling on to some hope, right? Even if not, let's enjoy those away days still, and try to back the team as much as possible.

Oh, and I'm not convinced that Towningaround isn't somehow connected to Hutchinson, or at least is in a position that's closer to the squad than most contributors on here, but he talks a lot of sense, and knows football based on his posts, so more than happy to have him contributing 👍

I think there are a couple of people on here connected to either a player or the management team. It happens most seasons. This is fairly standard for all club forums. It's normally fairly easy to spot but that doesn't mean their views are not valid or welcome as it can balance discussions from turning into somewhat of a pile-on.

[Barney]

18 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

But then the problem is that he also made the wrong call in recruiting/retaining those players in the first place! Recruitment and style of play haven't complemented each other. Gavin has been dreadfully exposed. At the very least he has to be judged on results against the likes of Aveley, Welling, Bath, Salisbury, Weymouth, Chippenham, Hemel, Hampton, St Albans. And lets not forget that two sides not very far above us have recently 'changed' managers - St Albans and Weymouth.

Yep, agreed - and I think it backs up the argument that you need to plan assembling a squad capable of competing at this level in the medium term, not the short term. As soon as you don't have a squad in place either at the start of pre-season, or beforehand you're straight away on the back foot, and only able to recruit players who either don't have a club, are on the fringes at their current clubs, or maybe taking a punt on someone who is performing well at the step below, and wants to play higher. By extension, these players are probably not going to set the world on fire at step 2, or they would have been snapped up already and be playing for another side. There have been instances of us getting it right (Peake, Benjamin, Thompson), but many more examples of players that have been brought in with the best intentions, but haven't been the right fit or capable of playing at this level.

Of course if you have a shed load of money to spend, that largely changes the available pool of signable players, but we definitely don't fall into that category.

[djwilf]

Would be interesting to know where people expected us to finish this season.     Think there s a few who think we d be much higher than we currently are.

Anyone here know how many teams in NLS are actually part time like us?