Towners v The Gulls (1-4)

[ETFC2001]

I told myself I wasn’t going to get annoyed today because Torquay are a football league side, or atleast step 1.

But - Capitulation again, points dropped from winning positions again, mentally weak. Same themes week in week out for this Enfield side. Becoming a complete soul draining experience from the fans to the management team. If we had any bit of anything about us, we wouldn’t be sitting 24th with 9 points to safety today.

Some ‘positives’ - was the better side for 30 minutes. Their first goal completely changes the game and we go back to the same Enfield. Booting the ball away, playing scared and they go on and score a second. Game over in the space of 3 minutes. We can’t take chances, we should really go in at half time maybe 2-1, 3-1 up. 

Second half, if we had any sort of real striker of any class, the two balls that go across the goal get converted and we’re winning 3-2 again. Then, they go and score the third and then fourth with ease to make it look like we got battered. No energy in the last 30 minutes, looked pathetic. 

The intake of money must of been nice today, let’s see if it gets invested into a striker or let’s just see the season out with nice fancy away days where we might get a few points some days. Or we can go on a nice cup run. Sittingbourne haven’t lost at home so I won’t expect any thrashings of the sort next week.

I’m normally one of the more positive people on here, whether that’s Gavin, the players, but the way we just fell over when the going gets tough tells me all about this side. No real characters in the changing room, on the pitch, or when we have a lead. It’s getting very boring very fast for a lot of fans.

Edit: Peake once again stands out today, can’t give any praise to the defense if we concede 4. Rhys needs rest, he was very poor today, wasteful of the ball and made key mistakes. I think Hilson should get the start against Sittingbourne, see if he is made of anything.

 

Edited November 30 by ETFC2001

[Flobalob]

Can’t argue with much of that ETFC… The space our backs gave their wide men was just amateurish… time to collect the ball control it then decide what to do before Parcell gets within five yards of them…. Too lightweight throughout the pitch …when the ball spends so much time in the air we aren’t going to win many balls… Peake gave his all again but again an unorganised shambles… but never mind the board are one step closer to get  what they really want…. back to a league they wished they’d never left…

Edited November 30 by WHY DO I BOTHER

[ETFC2001]

15 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

Can’t argue with much of that ETFC… The space our backs gave their wide men was just amateurish… time to collect the ball control it then decide what to do before Parcell gets within five yards of them…. Too lightweight throughout the pitch …when the ball spends so much time in the air we aren’t going to win many balls… Peake gave his all again but again an unorganised shambles… but never mind the board are one step closer to get  what they really want…. back to a league they wished they’d never left…

Every week, its the same thing. Keep backing off and backing off then we’ll just let it bounce around in the box until an opposition player gets to it. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

I don’t understand what Dylan has to do to start, plays an absolute blinder against Dorking and just thrown back to the bench because Parcell has come back. I understand what Parcell has done for this club but it’s time we start playing players that are performing, not based off moral or because we’re friendly with them.

Our hopes of staying up are a ticking time bomb with every week. I keep saying we’re better then 4 teams in this league, but its a points game and we aren’t gaining any when we should be and it’s a real shame we cant keep our bottle for atleast a half of football

[Flobalob]

8 minutes ago, ETFC2001 said:

 

I don’t understand what Dylan has to do to start, plays an absolute blinder against Dorking and just thrown back to the bench because Parcell has come back. I understand what Parcell has done for this club but it’s time we start playing players that are performing, not based off moral or because we’re friendly with them.

I wonder if Dylan is fit coz he was withdrawn against Hornchurch at the last minute but totally agree about MP….Mickys defending today and his quality of corners was poor…. 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

Ok, where to start?

Wing-backs. I may have misunderstood the system, but it looked today as if we had 2 full-backs (Parcell & Payne) who were asked to play as wing-backs. Neither are blessed with great pace these days, and both are concerned when wingers with some pace/trickery have to opportunity to attack them. All season I've watched Mickey back-off and back-off - no doubt hoping that help will arrive. It was the same again today.

Striker. Well, Jake Hutchinson had another opportunity today. For me it was the second half which plunged the final nail into the coffin. On 3 occasions either Cox or Payne got down the left wing and whipped a ball across the 6-yard box. Hutchinson was a good 10 yards adrift of where he had to be. I'm all in favour of giving players a fair crack of the whip. He has certainly had that now. He has failed at two Step 2 clubs this season, and regardless of what he has apparently achieved in the past, its time he was moved on.

Gavin's failure to sign a 20-goal striker is the reason we are very unlikely to survive this season. I appreciate that they may not grow on trees, but frankly its his job to find one. He's had 7 months since we secured promotion and hasn't come close to finding the right striker. I already have my doubts as to whether Gavin will be able to assemble a winning team at Step 3 next season.

I'm assuming from the way Alfie Tuck went down and then off, that he has dislocated a shoulder. In which case I would think that may be the last we see of him. Alfie wasn't afforded much time on the ball in the first half, and unfortunately didn't have the intelligent runs made into the final third. It might be thought that he has been wasted on us this season.

Over the last few games Lennon Peake and Dan Cox have been immense. Cox seems to be getting better with each game and has a very bright future.

Rhys seems to be having a bit of a dip at present - perhaps not surprising given the amount of action he's seeing. Hopefully he will benefit in the long run.

[ETFC2001]

1 hour ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

I wonder if Dylan is fit coz he was withdrawn against Hornchurch at the last minute but totally agree about MP….Mickys defending today and his quality of corners was poor…. 

I hope that he is on a minutes restriction at the moment because he’s picked up a knock if not I really don’t understand why he isn’t playing over Parcell if we keep playing with these two high wing backs

Edited November 30 by ETFC2001

[ETFC2001]

13 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Ok, where to start?

Wing-backs. I may have misunderstood the system, but it looked today as if we had 2 full-backs (Parcell & Payne) who were asked to play as wing-backs. Neither are blessed with great pace these days, and both are concerned when wingers with some pace/trickery have to opportunity to attack them. All season I've watched Mickey back-off and back-off - no doubt hoping that help will arrive. It was the same again today.

Striker. Well, Jake Hutchinson had another opportunity today. For me it was the second half which plunged the final nail into the coffin. On 3 occasions either Cox or Payne got down the left wing and whipped a ball across the 6-yard box. Hutchinson was a good 10 yards adrift of where he had to be. I'm all in favour of giving players a fair crack of the whip. He has certainly had that now. He has failed at two Step 2 clubs this season, and regardless of what he has apparently achieved in the past, its time he was moved on.

Gavin's failure to sign a 20-goal striker is the reason we are very unlikely to survive this season. I appreciate that they may not grow on trees, but frankly its his job to find one. He's had 7 months since we secured promotion and hasn't come close to finding the right striker. I already have my doubts as to whether Gavin will be able to assemble a winning team at Step 3 next season.

I'm assuming from the way Alfie Tuck went down and then off, that he has dislocated a shoulder. In which case I would think that may be the last we see of him. Alfie wasn't afforded much time on the ball in the first half, and unfortunately didn't have the intelligent runs made into the final third. It might be thought that he has been wasted on us this season.

Over the last few games Lennon Peake and Dan Cox have been immense. Cox seems to be getting better with each game and has a very bright future.

Rhys seems to be having a bit of a dip at present - perhaps not surprising given the amount of action he's seeing. Hopefully he will benefit in the long run.

Agree with everything, TCC.

I’ve tried to be positive for most of these hard losses, but I must come to terms that there is a 90% chance we are going down. And, Step 3 will not be easy next year. We shouldn’t be going into it acting like we will be going straight back up. It will take a lot of rebuilding.

I imagine Thompson will get snapped up, Cox and Tuck will move on, Scott will go back to Wealdstone and we will have no strikers available.

We should be doing everything in our power to keep Peake for next season. Immense players who has really came to life recently, and we could always see it was there.

A striker at this point is too little too late, I must admit. Wyllie left on July 22nd, it is now 4 months on and we are still asking why we have not brought in a much needed replacement who is a proven goal scorer. I understand, budget restrictions and all that, but when does that become a lame excuse?

I’d love to be proven wrong by the end of the season and stay up with the skin of our teeth, but for now I’ll enjoy the away days as they come and see if we can have a big Wembley day out in the FA Trophy.

Edited November 30 by ETFC2001

[The Crowing Cockerel]

1 minute ago, ETFC2001 said:

I’d love to be proven wrong by the end of the season and stay up with the skin of our teeth, but for now I’ll enjoy the away days as they come and see if we can have a big Wembley day out in the FA Trophy.

Another very very comfortable home win for Sittingbourne today (3 goals scored in the first 5 minutes!). At the moment I have very little confidence that we can make it much further in that competition. Perhaps the result of next week's game is a better one to judge Gavin on?

[ETFC2001]

3 hours ago, ETFC2001 said:

points dropped from winning positions again

I’d like to talk about this quickly.

Points dropped from winning positions this season:

Salisbury (1 point)

Truro (Loss)

Farnborough (Loss)

Torquay (x2) (Loss)

Chippenham (Loss)

Aveley (Loss)

That is 1 point from a possible 21 in winning positions this season. We have conceded 21 goals in those games, and scored 2 goals after going infront. Talk about capitulation.

So, just for arguments sake let’s say we got 10/21 of those points instead of 1/21, we would be 19th, with a game in hand against Bath.

16 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Another very very comfortable home win for Sittingbourne today (3 goals scored in the first 5 minutes!). At the moment I have very little confidence that we can make it much further in that competition. Perhaps the result of next week's game is a better one to judge Gavin on?

Got told they are 11/11 in wins at home. It would not shock me if we lost in bad fashion next week.

Edited November 30 by ETFC2001

[Towningaround]

Thing is, if you have a side struggling to score goals and you try several different strikers in the same system with the same players around them and still struggle to score goals most intelligent people would start to question if it was the striker who was the problem….

Still yet to see Alfie Tuck play a forward pass or one into space behind the oppositions defence. Talented boy who no doubt looks a million dollars when QPR 18s play Brentford B team and each player players 80 passes as 90% completion but here he needs to start creating a chance or two. 

As for the 3 balls across goal second half, most teams have 3 maybe even 4 players attacking the box and so the cross, no matter where it goes, near post or far post, high or low, slow or fast has a chance of hitting one player making a run. When you have one player in the box who has no idea whatsoever if the cross is going high or low, cut back or across goal he has a very small chance of guessing correctly. 

I also imagine that after 70 mins of being up front alone chasing lost causes competing for high balls and making runs that don’t ever see a pass…after 3 weeks on the bench….i imagine he was tiring by then….

You’d be better off pointing out how he may have done better with attacking the far post early in the first half…or even the 3/4 runs made in behind today that only required a simple forward pass that were ignored by a midfield that needed to take an extra touch before passing sideways and losing the opportunity….but that would take a little insight and game understanding. 

Torquay never got out of 3rd gear and we were never in it once they’d equalised. They were streets ahead, as expected and aren’t a side we need to measure ourselves against. Individually collectively physically tactically and technically we were 2nd best by a street. And that’s in all positions regardless of where you’d clearly like to direct your criticism.

Edited November 30 by Towningaround

[Flobalob]

6 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

Thing is, if you have a side struggling to score goals and you try several different strikers in the same system with the same players around them and still struggle to score goals most intelligent people would start to question if it was the striker who was the problem….

At least that makes me an intelligent person as i’ve stated plenty of times that we have had god knows how many strikers and everyone of them has been called useless… not good enough …out of his depth… cheap option and everything else… too much of a coincidence ?

[Frothy Coffee]

Where did all the support disappear too when the players came over at full time?

[The Crowing Cockerel]

37 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

Thing is, if you have a side struggling to score goals and you try several different strikers in the same system with the same players around them and still struggle to score goals most intelligent people would start to question if it was the striker who was the problem….

Still yet to see Alfie Tuck play a forward pass or one into space behind the oppositions defence. Talented boy who no doubt looks a million dollars when QPR 18s play Brentford B team and each player players 80 passes as 90% completion but here he needs to start creating a chance or two. 

As for the 3 balls across goal second half, most teams have 3 maybe even 4 players attacking the box and so the cross, no matter where it goes, near post or far post, high or low, slow or fast has a chance of hitting one player making a run. When you have one player in the box who has no idea whatsoever if the cross is going high or low, cut back or across goal he has a very small chance of guessing correctly. 

I also imagine that after 70 mins of being up front alone chasing lost causes competing for high balls and making runs that don’t ever see a pass…after 3 weeks on the bench….i imagine he was tiring by then….

You’d be better off pointing out how he may have done better with attacking the far post early in the first half…or even the 3/4 runs made in behind today that only required a simple forward pass that were ignored by a midfield that needed to take an extra touch before passing sideways and losing the opportunity….but that would take a little insight and game understanding. 

Torquay never got out of 3rd gear and we were never in it once they’d equalised. They were streets ahead, as expected and aren’t a side we need to measure ourselves against. Individually collectively physically tactically and technically we were 2nd best by a street. And that’s in all positions regardless of where you’d clearly like to direct your criticism.

So let me get this straight: 

• Jake was isolated
• The midfield isn't good enough to pick out Jake's runs
• Its unfair to criticise him because he had to guess where the cross was going to be delivered
• Jake was very tired because he's not been selected

Granted, the teams we are facing this season are better than those at Step 3. Still, I think it is fair to say that Town's defence AND midfield are now better this season than last. The crucial difference is up front. Marcus made brilliant runs, linked well with team-mates and scored a bucket load of goals. His play - not just the goals - took pressure off the rest of the team. Like it or not, but THAT is the type of player any new Town striker will be compared to. Any criticism of Jake is based on the fact that he is not up to the standards which we are used to (Wyllie, Faal). In actual fact, I don't blame any of the strikers - I blame the manager whose job it is to meet the required standards and recruit adequate players.

Torquay have had a very tough week fixture-wise. They may be technically better players, fitter, bigger squad etc, but as their manager has pointed out, if Town had managed to grab that 2nd goal in the first half then Torquay would have been put under real pressure and we may have seen a very different outcome.

[Towningaround]

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

So let me get this straight:

 

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Jake was isolated

You think he wasn’t?

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

The midfield isn't good enough to pick out Jake's runs

You think it is? Or you think he didn’t make runs? Which one of them do you think is good enough? 

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Its unfair to criticise him because he had to guess where the cross was going to be delivered

No I think criticism of all players is fair if it’s justified and not just scapegoating. I didn’t say it was unfair to criticise him because he had to guess where a cross was going, I said most teams have 3 maybe 4 players attacking the box in which case it’s likely one of them is near it even if 3 of them have “guessed” wrong and it looks a better cross. 
Ever played roulette? You bet on back or red or do you just take a single number?

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Jake was very tired because he's not been selected

I said he’s ploughed a lone furrow up front alone for 70/80 minutes against one of the best sides in the league where he had to chase and press and close down on the back of not having played for 3 weeks. 
Is that not a fair assessment?

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Still, I think it is fair to say that Town's defence AND midfield are now better this season than last

Oh come on!! How? Even ignoring the obvious that even if they are then so are the opposition and by a greater margin!

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Marcus made brilliant runs, linked well with team-mates and scored a bucket load of goals. His play - not just the goals - took pressure off the rest of the team. Like it or not, but THAT is the type of player any new Town striker will be compared to

Yes and obviously he is missed but he did that against much weaker opponents  in a team full of confidence in games where we weren’t outclassed most weeks for most of the game!

Is that really that hard to understand?

Yes I agree he’d be an asset but there’s no guarantee he’d continue to replicate that form in this team in this league! 

20 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Any criticism of Jake is based on the fact that he is not up to the standards which we are used to (Wyllie, Faal)

Based on what you saw of them in a lower level. 👍

Jake, like any of the side will be subject to criticism when a side is consistently losing and consistently not scoring goals, but he’s (like any other individual) is not the sole reason or the main reason, ignorance is just using him as a scapegoat for frustrations when an entire side is under performing, low on confidence, outclassed, out run, less well prepared and playing at a level that too many of the squad cannot play at physically or technically.

I’d say 6 maybe 7 of that side today are less than capable of playing at this level at all. That was clear weeks ago.

To single out an Individual especially one in a position at the top end who’s entirely reliant on those behind him for support is as ludicrous as it is ignorant. 

Edited November 30 by Towningaround

[Towningaround]

21 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Torquay have had a very tough week fixture-wise. They may be technically better players, fitter, bigger squad etc, but as their manager has pointed out, if Town had managed to grab that 2nd goal in the first half then Torquay would have been put under real pressure and we may have seen a very different outcome.

They’d have still won by 3/4 goals. 

They didn’t get out of 3rd gear until they had to. 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

5 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

To single out an Individual especially one in a position at the top end who’s entirely reliant on those behind him for support is as ludicrous as it is ignorant. 

Hutchinson wasn't the only player I picked out for criticism. I agree that a number of players don't seem to be up to Step 2. What I'm most interested in / troubled by is why the team isn't good enough? Is our budget simply not large enough to ever recruit a competitive Step 2 squad? Or is the manager not up to the job? Is Step 3 as high as we can ever realistically aim?

[Flobalob]

24 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Still, I think it is fair to say that Town's defence AND midfield are now better this season

I agree with you a lot of the time CC  but you do realise we have conceded the most goals (less games than Ebbsfleet) in the whole of the National league system… With the extra wages paid i should hope by now the team should be at a better standard than last year but as a unit the team is a mile away… cramming the team with loan players and repeated changes will not build a team.. Torquay attacked as a unit and defended the same… 

[ETFC2001]

Towningaround, your constant excuses of Hutchinson makes me to believe you have to be in connection or a relative to him, which is fine and understandable if so.

No one came on this forum tonight and singled out Hutchinson as the reason we lost today. I said we lost to capitulation and lack of characters when the going gets tough. Rhys also had a poor game, and others did today. 

I brought up the fact that he has to be near, or around the area if there is a ball going into the box. It is not rocket science what we want to do, we want to spam crosses into the box and win battles in the box and score scrappy goals because we have no player except Peake who can create their own chance or have a bit of magic.

The targeting of Alfie Tuck, an 18 year old loanee who wears his heart on his sleeve, has become a fan favourite and clearly loves the club as much as a player who has been here for years and asking him to ‘create chances’ when that is not his role at-all is very odd to me. He sprays balls to wide areas for crosses so we can hopefully win a header and score a scrappy goal. He creates little patterns of play in the midfield for us and it comes off most of the time. But, each to their own. If you feel like he is the reason of why we lost today, fair enough.

Carrying on, if we go 2-0 up, the game completely changes and we go on to win. Yet again, we become negative in possession, and they score 2 in 3 minutes and thats ultimately the turning point. We had 2 chances to go 2-0 up and we squandered both of them and we cannot be doing that playing at this level. And it costs us the game because the mentality completely changes. They was wearing us down physically and then it’s 3-1 and it’s game set and match.

21 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

Based on what you saw of them in a lower level. 👍

I have seen Faal dominate in step 2 every time he has been here, currently doing it for Worthing. Not sure what you mean. I’m not sure why Wyllie couldn’t of either, I think as an all around player he is on the same level as Faal or even better.

Edit: I agree we shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to Torquay, obviously a former football league side and pushing for autos, they are obviously more professional then us but the game was to be won today. 

Edited November 30 by ETFC2001

[Towningaround]

7 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Hutchinson wasn't the only player I picked out for criticism

A yeah you criticised the two wing backs, neither of which are wing backs and the young goalkeeper. 👍 

[ETFC2001]

8 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

Hutchinson wasn't the only player I picked out for criticism. I agree that a number of players don't seem to be up to Step 2. What I'm most interested in / troubled by is why the team isn't good enough? Is our budget simply not large enough to ever recruit a competitive Step 2 squad? Or is the manager not up to the job? Is Step 3 as high as we can ever realistically aim?

I think that’s a lot to be left desired. If we come up again next year and we see the same patterns, we have to ask questions on why we can’t recruit players for this level.