Hornchurch (home) 1-2.

[Father Jack]

Not meant for you Ben, but yellow cards all round. Keep it civil please!

[Towningaround]

Time to ditch the defensive slow ponderous set up and start putting players in their correct positions or at least positions they can affect the game from.

We have enough players of the required standard and the set up below in the main, has sq pegs in sq holes.

It has pace and energy and is good enough to win games of football at this level.

Unfortunately I think we will stick with the mind numbingly boring 5 at the back with an isolated forward feeding off nothing while we kid ourselves that we’re actually playing some nice football when the reality is we pass it ok when unnopposed but fail to play forwards, play in behind, move teams about or deliver into the box!

[ETFC2001]

50 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

Time to ditch the defensive slow ponderous set up and start putting players in their correct positions or at least positions they can affect the game from.

We have enough players of the required standard and the set up below in the main, has sq pegs in sq holes.

It has pace and energy and is good enough to win games of football at this level.

Unfortunately I think we will stick with the mind numbingly boring 5 at the back with an isolated forward feeding off nothing while we kid ourselves that we’re actually playing some nice football when the reality is we pass it ok when unnopposed but fail to play forwards, play in behind, move teams about or deliver into the box!

I’d like something like this, but I don’t think Gavin thinks we are good enough as a team to play this free flowing football. Or maybe he’ll just start going for it a bit more because games are closely running thin. I think because we conceded so many goals early when he had a terrible defense, he’s definitely gone more defensive but I think he needs to realise Cox/Thompson/Benjamin are all capable players as a group and they don’t need to be catered to anymore.

Unfortunately, our three centre backs are probably the best players in the club and Tuck aswell. They look very solid together and I must say we should be looking to drop Payne as I felt like he looked lost out there yesterday. It was unfortunate Dylan last minute didn’t play, I think he looked good with Peake. I’m interested to hear Gavin’s interview.

Edit: Shakpoke yesterday kept moving out wide and I don’t understand why. He needs to stay in the middle and run in behind and he did that once and he nearly took it down for a goal. The setup yesterday was horrific for the first 25, I don’t think we left our half because we was trying to keep passing it sideways and hoping a miracle happens.

Edited November 27 by ETFC2001

[Flobalob]

i’ve enjoyed your refreshingly honest and sensible posts Towning …Nice to have at least one person on my side about what is really happening on the pitch ….what are you doing at 3pm on Saturday…😀…. Like you i fear we are in for more of the same …..

[ETFC2001]

2 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

i’ve enjoyed your refreshingly honest and sensible posts Towning …Nice to have at least one person on my side about what is really happening on the pitch ….what are you doing at 3pm on Saturday…😀…. Like you i fear we are in for more of the same …..

We most likely will be because I wouldn’t expect Gavin to not go very defensive against Torquay. We will get carved up. 

[Barney]

56 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

Time to ditch the defensive slow ponderous set up and start putting players in their correct positions or at least positions they can affect the game from.

We have enough players of the required standard and the set up below in the main, has sq pegs in sq holes.

It has pace and energy and is good enough to win games of football at this level.

Unfortunately I think we will stick with the mind numbingly boring 5 at the back with an isolated forward feeding off nothing while we kid ourselves that we’re actually playing some nice football when the reality is we pass it ok when unnopposed but fail to play forwards, play in behind, move teams about or deliver into the box!

Sensible and constructive post, and I don't disagree with the suggestion/formation. It certainly would be more positive, and closer to how we set up for most of last season. Assuming Cox is comfortable playing LB, this might work, although from my playing experience, full back is a very different position to centre back, with different requirements, and the transition doesn't suit every player. We do seem to have more players overall suited to this formation, as we don't have any natural wing backs with the departure of Mills (maybe Dylan excepted), but we do have plenty of cover at full back and wide attacking midfield/wing.

What I can't get onboard with is the negativity around the management and how we're setting up (I'm not singling you out for this Towningaround, and definitely not directed at this post). I like Gavin, I like how honest he is in interviews, I much prefer the football and how things are going compared to Leeseball, and I love the fact that he earned us a shot at this league at the first attempt (albeit possibly a bit too soon for our own good). Posts like this are great, as they offer a sensible way forward, and some debate - what isn't helpful is the knee-jerk "the manager has to go" posts that we get every time we lose. We are going to have to be pragmatic and accept that in this league we will lose more than we win, and that however we set up, be that parking the bus or Barcelona 2011 style, we're going to get beaten, irrespective of who is managing the team. Let's have a bit of perspective on this - we're all fans, we all want what's best, but please try to support the players and management, even if we don't always agree with formation/personnel/tactics.

[Flobalob]

Let’s be honest Barney only a few of us ARE supportive of the players … How do you think they feel reading after every loss that they are simply cheap options and are not good enough because we are a low budget side… It must be soul destroying and they must dread going out onto the pitch to face more of the same … Let’s encourage the players let’s give them belief and let’s stop running them down and let’s dig deeper into WHY they all seemingly under perform… it’s my opinion that the managers tactics are causing the players to look a lot worse than they are as mentioned players playing way out of position and a extremely negative approach… I can’t understand why this tunnel vision of let’s blame the players and the manager is beyond reproach… 

1 hour ago, Father Jack said:

Not meant for you Ben, but yellow cards all round. Keep it civil please!

Everything is good FJ… at least this forum which was dying a death has come to life … Just wish more members would post their opinions…

[Barney]

23 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

Let’s be honest Barney only a few of us ARE supportive of the players … How do you think they feel reading after every loss that they are simply cheap options and are not good enough because we are a low budget side… It must be soul destroying and they must dread going out onto the pitch to face more of the same … Let’s encourage the players let’s give them belief and let’s stop running them down and let’s dig deeper into WHY they all seemingly under perform… it’s my opinion that the managers tactics are causing the players to look a lot worse than they are as mentioned players playing way out of position and a extremely negative approach… I can’t understand why this tunnel vision of let’s blame the players and the manager is beyond reproach… 

Everything is good FJ… at least this forum which was dying a death has come to life … Just wish more members would post their opinions…

I'm certainly not blaming the players, unless a player isn't trying (and I think examples of that are few and far between, thankfully), then I'll back whoever is on the pitch for us, and always look for positives. I also agree that we have an increasing number of players who are good enough to play at this level. I just don't think anyone is to blame here - we find ourselves in a league that is probably too strong for where we are as a club at the moment, and I'm not sure any tactics or managerial style would give us an obvious route to winning enough games to get us out the bottom 4. That said, Gavin is definitely not beyond reproach either, and constructive posts about what could be done differently are very much welcomed by me (and I'm sure many others). I definitely don't agree with everything the management team are doing either.

As an example, although you're entitled to your opinion and it's equally as valid as mine, I just don't think that this type of message after a defeat is overly helpful, constructive or adds a great deal to the debate:

13 hours ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

I see the word “clueless” is finally being mentioned… surprised it has taken this long… ten man defence inviting pressure with no escape ball out…. another striker deemed useless to go with the previous six or seven… A manager so cautious it must be a nightmare playing for him…. please go Gavin and thanks for the memories…..

 

Edited November 27 by Barney
typos again

[The Crowing Cockerel]

12 hours ago, ETFC2001 said:

I think if we get that penalty and score, the game completely changes and we go on to win 3-2. Officials f**king us over are becoming a slow theme this season.

I had a brilliant view and I have to agree with the ref that it wasn't a penalty. Manny Harvest got to the ball first and Joe Payne followed through with his swing at the ball connecting with Manny. Worth a try, but never a penalty.

[Flobalob]

Heat of the moment after another frustrating and disappointing performance… Apologies to Gavin he deserves better after his achievements last season but that is in the past…. football is not known for its loyalty and nice guys get washed away like the  snow in the rain …( What’s the song)…? 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

A frustrating night at The Dave Bryant. We let ourselves down in the first 20 minutes and were lucky not to be 3-0 down and completely out of it. Hornchurch started predictably fast - no doubt eager to avenge the Trophy defeat - and we were like a rabbit caught in headlights. I felt for Christian Scott. He has been very good since he started his loan move to us, but Manny had him on toast in that first 20 minutes - we really should've moved heaven and earth to keep Manny this season. I can imagine Christian feels pretty frustrated being hooked that early in the game (and the dugout bore some of that frustration). Hopefully Gavin can reassure him that he still has a major part to play though.

I know there is complaint about the lack of forward passing, but I'm delighted at the move away from a long-ball game. We finally have footballers in Thompson, Tuck, Cox and even Benjamin, who are not afraid to get on the ball in their own half and move it around until an opportunity arises. I don't recall Rhys hitting a single goal kick long all night. Granted, we don't get any points for this, but we clearly scored the best goal of the night, and showed that we are capable of moving the ball very well. We just need an intelligent and/or experienced forward. Someone who can make the right runs at the right times. That will take a lot of pressure off Ruben/Jake/RBR. I appreciate these types of players don't grow on trees, but its a very simple equation: if we don't bring in some goals then we are just going through the motions for the remainder of the season before a clear-out and a return to the Isthmian League with our new 400-seater stand and some fetching Vanarama team tracksuits to show for our time away. The old Enfield always seemed to unearth a striker when required. I'm thinking of the likes of Giuliano Grazioli (4 goals on debut?). So its time Gavin was able to sell his vision to a decent striker.

The ETFC side of a couple of months ago would've lost that game 6-0, so we're certainly improving, but 6 points from safety already looks a little too much given our upcoming fixtures. Still, its time to pull together and keep fighting!

[Father Jack]

50 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

 nice guys get washed away like the  snow in the rain …( What’s the song)…? 

Rhinestone Cowboy

[Barney]

31 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

A frustrating night at The Dave Bryant. We let ourselves down in the first 20 minutes and were lucky not to be 3-0 down and completely out of it. Hornchurch started predictably fast - no doubt eager to avenge the Trophy defeat - and we were like a rabbit caught in headlights. I felt for Christian Scott. He has been very good since he started his loan move to us, but Manny had him on toast in that first 20 minutes - we really should've moved heaven and earth to keep Manny this season. I can imagine Christian feels pretty frustrated being hooked that early in the game (and the dugout bore some of that frustration). Hopefully Gavin can reassure him that he still has a major part to play though.

I know there is complaint about the lack of forward passing, but I'm delighted at the move away from a long-ball game. We finally have footballers in Thompson, Tuck, Cox and even Benjamin, who are not afraid to get on the ball in their own half and move it around until an opportunity arises. I don't recall Rhys hitting a single goal kick long all night. Granted, we don't get any points for this, but we clearly scored the best goal of the night, and showed that we are capable of moving the ball very well. We just need an intelligent and/or experienced forward. Someone who can make the right runs at the right times. That will take a lot of pressure off Ruben/Jake/RBR. I appreciate these types of players don't grow on trees, but its a very simple equation: if we don't bring in some goals then we are just going through the motions for the remainder of the season before a clear-out and a return to the Isthmian League with our new 400-seater stand and some fetching Vanarama team tracksuits to show for our time away. The old Enfield always seemed to unearth a striker when required. I'm thinking of the likes of Giuliano Grazioli (4 goals on debut?). So its time Gavin was able to sell his vision to a decent striker.

The ETFC side of a couple of months ago would've lost that game 6-0, so we're certainly improving, but 6 points from safety already looks a little too much given our upcoming fixtures. Still, its time to pull together and keep fighting!

Agree completely with this, pretty much exactly how I see it

[Towningaround]

36 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I felt for Christian Scott. He has been very good since he started his loan move to us, but Manny had him on toast in that first 20 minutes - we really should've moved heaven and earth to keep Manny this season. I can imagine Christian feels pretty frustrated being hooked that early in the game (and the dugout bore some of that frustration). Hopefully Gavin can reassure him that he still has a major part to play though.

What I have heard is that Christian was injured in the warm up but insisted he was ok even when pushed on it and yet was clearly hampered by the injury and resulted din the second goal.

38 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I know there is complaint about the lack of forward passing, but I'm delighted at the move away from a long-ball game. We finally have footballers in Thompson, Tuck, Cox and even Benjamin, who are not afraid to get on the ball in their own half and move it around until an opportunity arises

That’s fine…..providing that they are able to recognize the opportunity and able execute the pass that opens a team up. As yet (and I rate Alfie) I’m yet to see him provide a goal scoring opportunity for anyone and his range of passing should by now be far more effective than it has been. He’s often too tippy tappy and ends up spraying the ball around to full backs sideways. Harsh maybe but true. 

40 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I don't recall Rhys hitting a single goal kick long all night. Granted, we don't get any points for this, but we clearly scored the best goal of the night, and showed that we are capable of moving the ball very well.

We are capable but the problem I see is that we are only capable in as much as we’re able to pass it around in the areas opposition teams are allowing us to. 

Possession is nothing without purpose and at the moment all our possession has zero purpose and hurts no one. Ultimately a pass has to be played forwards, preferably behind the opposition back line whether that’s a through ball or a cross….the area between back line and the goalkeeper is the only really dangerous area and we never hit it. 

43 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

We just need an intelligent and/or experienced forward. Someone who can make the right runs at the right times. That will take a lot of pressure off Ruben/Jake/RBR. I appreciate these types of players don't grow on trees, but its a very simple equation: if we don't bring in some goals then we are just going through the motions for the remainder of the season before a clear-out and a return to the Isthmian League with our new 400-seater stand and some fetching Vanarama team tracksuits to show for our time away. The old Enfield always seemed to unearth a striker when required. I'm thinking of the likes of Giuliano Grazioli (4 goals on debut?). So its time Gavin was able to sell his vision to a decent striker.

I genuinely believe we have an intelligent striker. Albeit one who is possibly low on confidence. But I watch Hutchinson and his movement is often wasted by a player taking an extra touch or delaying his pass or refusing to play forwards and opting for something sideways (to retain possession).

There is a video of his goals on YouTube that demonstrate some outstanding movement and finishing but almost all from the type of service we have failed to provide to any of our strikers. 

In my opinion Gavin and more importantly Nurse need to spend some time with him and find a way of getting the best out of him because it could be a difference maker. 

46 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

The ETFC side of a couple of months ago would've lost that game 6-0, so we're certainly improving, but 6 points from safety already looks a little too much given our upcoming fixtures. Still, its time to pull together and keep fighting!

I agree that overall, the side now is much stronger than the one we had 6/8/10 weeks ago. We have a degree of control in games and generally have been in almost all games since Farnborough. The challenge now is to find a way of creating more chances and see if we can get players like Hutchinson, Leonard, Youngs, Peake scoring on a regular basis. 

[Towningaround]

3 hours ago, Barney said:

Assuming Cox is comfortable playing LB, this might work, although from my playing experience, full back is a very different position to centre back, with different requirements, and the transition doesn't suit every player

I agree. But I do feel that he shows composure on the ball and Academy’s these days are big on players being adaptable and playing various roles. I’d be shocked if he hadnt played full back regularly before he shot up and hit 6’ +.

3 hours ago, Barney said:

What I can't get onboard with is the negativity around the management and how we're setting up (I'm not singling you out for this Towningaround, and definitely not directed at this post). I like Gavin, I like how honest he is in interviews, I much prefer the football and how things are going compared to Leeseball, and I love the fact that he earned us a shot at this league at the first attempt (albeit possibly a bit too soon for our own good). Posts like this are great, as they offer a sensible way forward, and some debate - what isn't helpful is the knee-jerk "the manager has to go" posts that we get every time we lose

I like Gavin but I do feel sometimes that he needs to be more positive with his body language, post match interviews and his selections. 

You are right, we aren’t going to be able to compete with many of the teams we are up against and so showing disappointment or frustration after games like Farnborough for example is pointless and depresses players and fans. 

If I were him now I’d have several games highlighted on the calendar and a mini league of 8 drawn up and I’d focus on finishing in the top half of that league by picking up must win points in certain games and use the others to focus solely on performance and progress and bonus points if applicable. 

3 hours ago, Barney said:

We are going to have to be pragmatic and accept that in this league we will lose more than we win, and that however we set up, be that parking the bus or Barcelona 2011 style, we're going to get beaten, irrespective of who is managing the team. Let's have a bit of perspective on this - we're all fans, we all want what's best, but please try to support the players and management, even if we don't always agree with formation/personnel/tactics

Agreed 👍 

Edited November 27 by Towningaround

[The Crowing Cockerel]

13 minutes ago, Towningaround said:

• What I have heard is that Christian was injured in the warm up but insisted he was ok even when pushed on it and yet was clearly hampered by the injury and resulted din the second goal.
• In my opinion Gavin and more importantly Nurse need to spend some time with him and find a way of getting the best out of him because it could be a difference maker. 

I did wonder whether Christian was actually injured. That explains a lot. Not the first time a youngster will have made that kind of misjudgement. Hopefully he learns from it - and Gavin doesn't hold it against him.

Re Jake: Gavin has clearly decided he's down the pecking order. I did appreciate the effort he put in when he came on last night - there's absolutely no criticism there. Shakpoke does not seem to be the answer as a lone striker, so perhaps we need to try him with Jake?

I don't want to be part of a "Gav Out" movement, but I wonder what the long-term plan is? Does Gavin get a free shot at this season, retaining his job even if we're relegated? Is the expectation that he would then have to get us into the Isthmian play-offs next season? Surely the long-term plan had to be re-evaluated as soon as we secured promotion in the first season?

[Father Jack]

"I’d be shocked if he hadnt played full back regularly before he shit up and hit 6’"

 

He did WHAT???

[Towningaround]

10 minutes ago, Father Jack said:

"I’d be shocked if he hadnt played full back regularly before he shit up and hit 6’"

 

He did WHAT???

Edit : Shot up and hit 6 foot plus

[ETFC2001]

Some great constructive posts on here since I was last on here this morning. Yesterday I dug a few people out on here just in the heat of the moment and once again, we’re all fans of a great club. Apologies on my behalf. A few things below:

I also think Scott was injured but he tried to play through it and then he obviously didn’t look his best so he got taken off. I heard he kicked the dugout stand and had his shirt over his head. Feel bad for him if he did try and play through injury to help us out last night. Top player and no doubt he’ll be back to his best.

The game yesterday - I won’t talk about too much. In my opinion from behind the goal, it was 100% a penalty. Still, positives to be taken, even if people don’t think so.

I really like the way we’re heading, albeit the first 25 minutes yesterday felt like the ETFC from 2 months ago. I like the idea of a new, attacking formation like a 4-2-3-1 like Towningaround suggested, but I think that needs to come from a higher up and speak to Gavin to see if he’s interested in taking more of an attacking approach. If not, it doesn’t change my look on how this season will end. 

I still believe there is 4 teams worse then us in the league, it’s just a matter of getting points. We have a terrible run of fixtures coming up, but we do need to start picking up points against teams around us, or at home. I think a run of form could start against boxing day against Boreham Wood at home. Even then, there is points to be had against Tonbridge, Weston-super-Mare, and Worthing. I’m confident about the FA Trophy and we should be in the next round too, which should give us more budget.

Honestly, I still think we need more signings, and Gavin has openly brought that up in interviews as of recent, so I would imagine we’re still weighing up our options or trying to unearth a gem from a different planet. Let’s hope. 

Anywho - onto Torquay. COYT!

 

 

[Flobalob]

2 hours ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I don't want to be part of a "Gav Out" movement, but I wonder what the long-term plan is?

It’s a movement of 1 ….. ☹️