How long can we go on like this?

[4wembleyfinals]

It seems from reading recent posts that most members/supporters are in agreement that something has to be done soon to correct our position. 

I said back in August that letting Marcus go before the season had even started could be one of the biggest mistakes the club has made. Many took a moral stance and suggested it would be wrong to hold him back. From a moral point of view I agree with them whole heartedly.

However at the time I queried whether from a business point of view it was the right time for the club. Like it or not we are in a business situation. I also expressed my reasons for saying this. 

 I take no pride that my comments then are now showing in our current predicament. Which is that we could be bottom of the league within a few weeks if those under us win their games in hand.

We have not replaced his capacity to score goals. Also the money received from his transfer would seem to have been insufficient to acquire a decent replacement to the squad. This in time may result in falling gates and loss of revenue.  

We have to accept we are now in the real business of running a semi-pro football club and this takes money.

Tough decisions will have to be made soon if we are going to get out of our situation.  It is not  just a change in playing personnel but an adjustment of our financial commitments ie. Is all the amount of  £35,000 needed for the new stand? Or can some be used towards helping our current position?

In the meantime lets keep our finger crossed for some better results in the near future. 

 

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

To be honest i’m sick of hearing about Marcus… he’s gone that’s it….the real concern is that we have a board and some supporters that are putting the management before the club… we are heading for a very early relegation and quite frankly it’s as if they think we don’t  belong in the NLS …we are a small club in a big league Gav has done his best and that’s it… as long as we can blame the budget then failure is acceptable…

[ETFC2001]

1 hour ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

It seems from reading recent posts that most members/supporters are in agreement that something has to be done soon to correct our position. 

I said back in August that letting Marcus go before the season had even started could be one of the biggest mistakes the club has made. Many took a moral stance and suggested it would be wrong to hold him back. From a moral point of view I agree with them whole heartedly.

However at the time I queried whether from a business point of view it was the right time for the club. Like it or not we are in a business situation. I also expressed my reasons for saying this. 

 I take no pride that my comments then are now showing in our current predicament. Which is that we could be bottom of the league within a few weeks if those under us win their games in hand.

We have not replaced his capacity to score goals. Also the money received from his transfer would seem to have been insufficient to acquire a decent replacement to the squad. This in time may result in falling gates and loss of revenue.  

We have to accept we are now in the real business of running a semi-pro football club and this takes money.

Tough decisions will have to be made soon if we are going to get out of our situation.  It is not  just a change in playing personnel but an adjustment of our financial commitments ie. Is all the amount of  £35,000 needed for the new stand? Or can some be used towards helping our current position?

In the meantime lets keep our finger crossed for some better results in the near future. 

 

I agree that letting Marcus go so close to the start of the season was not a great decision and should of been done way before then July 20th or something. I’ve also heard most of the money we get is a sell on clause so has Gillingham pulled the wool over our eyes for him? While I don’t agree we would of been ‘holding him back’ he would obviously be amazing in the NLS and too good for this league and I think we’d be well clear of relegation at this point of the season. But, on the flipside - Marcus wouldn’t of helped us defensively and we would still be letting in goals for fun.

Obviously, our financial situation isn’t the best. Worthing clearly offered something else compared to us for Faal to come back and that’s why we have got Hutchinson instead of him at the moment.

What worries me the most is that if we go down we will not see us back here in a long long while, and the board and/or management has to realise that staying in this league for this season could be huge for funds and huge for fans to stay engaged with the club. I know most of us will be following the Towners no matter if we’re in isthmian or lower but I don’t want to see us being a one season wonder, I want us to be doing bigger things as such. 

Maybe this is reactionary and I’m being blinded by the fact that results haven’t gone our way recently or atall but something needs to change whether that’s a change of managment or using some of the £35,000 we have raised to invest it into trying to stay up although I know we would all like a new stand but what’s a new stand if there isn’t fans to sit in it?

[ETFC2001]

26 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

To be honest i’m sick of hearing about Marcus… he’s gone that’s it….the real concern is that we have a board and some supporters that are putting the management before the club… we are heading for a very early relegation and quite frankly it’s as if they think we don’t  belong in the NLS …we are a small club in a big league Gav has done his best and that’s it… as long as we can blame the budget then failure is acceptable…

I don’t think we’re a ‘small club’ in a big league. I think we’re more then capable in being a stable of the NLS. We have the attendances for it, there’s clubs that’s been in the same league that have or are averaging around 500/700 fans? I know there’s more factors into what a ‘big club’ is but to say we don’t belong in the NLS is simply not true

 

[No bull Towner]

1 hour ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

To be honest i’m sick of hearing about Marcus… he’s gone that’s it….the real concern is that we have a board and some supporters that are putting the management before the club… we are heading for a very early relegation and quite frankly it’s as if they think we don’t  belong in the NLS …we are a small club in a big league Gav has done his best and that’s it… as long as we can blame the budget then failure is acceptable…

Yes I'm guessing I'm one of those supporters that isn't jumping to hang, drawn and quarter Gav and the management team but not because I'm putting them above the club but because I think they deserve to see out the season. They got us here so they deserve to try and keep us here. They were revered 5 months ago yet because we've had a poor start, suddenly they are the devil incarnate....sorry doesn't sit well with me!  Everyone loved his Gav ball but suddenly he doesn't know shit apparently. If you want to blame something then blame the fact that they over achieved last season and should never really have come up. We weren't amazing last season and I don't think hand on heart anyone really thought we would win the play offs. What a difference losing would have done to attitudes. People would have put it down to a great first season for the management and the board would have then looked seriously into how to realistically fund and resource a step up. But we are where we are and people need to accept we weren't ready. Fans said we know it's going to be tough and we will struggle to survive but as soon as it gets that way the attitude changes, they talk like we are under performing but in actual fact it's just the opposition are better at this level than us. Would I love us to stay up? Of course, but I won't be blaming everyone if we don't, I will accept we did our best with what we had and gave it a go. Some people speak as if Gav, management, and even players want us to lose which is ridiculous. They go out there every match giving their best but sometimes the best just ain't good enough and bringing back old managers is just living in the past....let's bring back Andy Leese shall we? No, thought not! Oh and as for using the crowd funding money for something other than what it was advertised for then I'm pretty sure that would be leaving ourselves wide open for investigation as people didn't donate to fund our squad they donated for ground improvements! Would have to publicly offer refunds etc and make ourselves look very stupid and very dodgy!

Edited October 23 by No bull Towner
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[WHY DO I BOTHER]

50 minutes ago, ETFC2001 said:

I don’t think we’re a ‘small club’ in a big league. I think we’re more then capable in being a stable of the NLS. We have the attendances for it, there’s clubs that’s been in the same league that have or are averaging around 500/700 fans? I know there’s more factors into what a ‘big club’ is but to say we don’t belong in the NLS is simply not true

 

Exactly so why are we accepting relegation so casually ?  …. i wonder how many of the board were quietly wishing we had never beat Chatham ?

just seen latest interview and again week after week players thrown under the bus …apparently no one follows the instructions given ..if that is the case then he really has lost the players… 

[4wembleyfinals]

Thanks E2000 I think what you have written is in line with my thinking and paraphrases what I said back in August.

For my part I have been a follower/supporter of both EFC and ETFC since 1947( excluding my own playing days and National service) and therefore retain a vested interest in our current predicament.  

As far as WDIB is concerned my reference to Marcus is because it is my view that it was the start of our current decline started and could have been handle better. Some seem to forget that we members are not only involved in a football club but also a business. However, I am afraid I don't quite understand what he means in his reference to the " Board and supporters and management etc". Because I expect the Board and members to try to manage a way out of our situation. That's what running any business business means. Or even any club.    

 

 

 

[Kent Towner]

Despite last Saturday and last night...I remain utterly convinced we can remain in the NLS...really.

But Saturday is gonna be crucial.

 

COYT ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻

[ETFC2001]

1 minute ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

Exactly so why are we accepting relegation so casually ?  …. i wonder how many of the board were quietly wishing we had never beat Chatham ?

just seen latest interview and again week after week players thrown under the bus …apparently no one follows the instructions given ..if that is the case then he really has lost the players… 

I don’t think anyone’s accepting relegation, people are just being honest about our situation. We’re against it massively whether that’s lack of personnel, lack of budget, Marcus leaving us etc.

Gavin isn’t trying to put anyone under the bus, but players have to take responsibility, the corner is schoolboy stuff! No excuse for not atleast being more productive when they have 10 men, we really should of got a point atleast.

The playoffs is unpredictable, anything can happen in a one game elimination game, we’re here now, fans and the board must of knew we was going to be against it this season after Marcus left.

[ETFC2001]

2 minutes ago, Kent Towner said:

Despite last Saturday and last night...I remain utterly convinced we can remain in the NLS...really.

But Saturday is gonna be crucial.

 

COYT ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻

Saturday is definitely crucial, a win into the break could be crucial for the players to mentally reset and for Gavin to have a break and practice a few things could be massive for our season.

Let’s just get behind them, COYT

[lovely stuff]

The new stand is a requirement to meet National League standards. Clubs that do not meet minimum seating requirements at the start of the season commit to installing it by a set date in the season in order to be allowed to compete in the league. The money cannot be used elsewhere. 

Edited October 23 by lovely stuff

[ETFC2001]

2 minutes ago, lovely stuff said:

The new stand is a requirement to meet National League standards. Clubs that do not meet minimum seating commit to installing it by a set date in the season in order to be allowed to compete. The money cannot be used elsewhere. 

Ah yes, that’s a good point yeah I did forget about that.

[Pretty Vacant]

OK, my first posting for many years, in fact I'd forgotten that this message board even existed.

Like it or not the departure of Marcus was inevitable during the close season, as was Mo's the other year and Corey's some years before that. I'm sure the directors negotiated the best deal for the club, which I assume has gone towards player recruitment. 

So, a lot of moaning here, so what are peoples sensible suggestions to make things better, other than the usual sack the board/manager stuff? And please no one suggest bring back Brad.

It's a fact that financially we are way down compared to the budgets of other clubs. Look at why players join the likes of Hornchurch rather than us. So how do we improve our income streams? again sensible suggestions only please.

Finally on the subject of Hornchurch, last season they were 23 points better than us and worthy champions. Despite what I assume to be investment in their team they sit one place higher than us tonight. Maybe the harsh reality is that the Isthmian league is far weaker than we think and the gap to NLS is greater than we thought. Cheshunt came straight back down, Aveley are struggling after one good year and are flirting with relegation, as are we and Hornchurch. Is it a fact that players in this area of the country know that they can hawk themselves around until they sign for the highest bidder, whilst someone like Chippenham or Worthing doesn't have that amount of competition?

Have a good night Towners, there's always Saturday to look forward to.

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

2 hours ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

Thanks E2000 I think what you have written is in line with my thinking and paraphrases what I said back in August.

For my part I have been a follower/supporter of both EFC and ETFC since 1947( excluding my own playing days and National service) and therefore retain a vested interest in our current predicament.  

As far as WDIB is concerned my reference to Marcus is because it is my view that it was the start of our current decline started and could have been handle better. Some seem to forget that we members are not only involved in a football club but also a business. However, I am afraid I don't quite understand what he means in his reference to the " Board and supporters and management etc". Because I expect the Board and members to try to manage a way out of our situation. That's what running any business business means. Or even any club.    

 

 

 

So what do you expect the board or members to do to find a way out of our situation ?….. Normally the buck stops with the manager in every level of football i’ve ever followed but not the case with us… We will criticise and change the players but the manager is beyond reproach… Well let’s see where that approach takes us….

[ETFC2001]

1 hour ago, Pretty Vacant said:

OK, my first posting for many years, in fact I'd forgotten that this message board even existed.

Like it or not the departure of Marcus was inevitable during the close season, as was Mo's the other year and Corey's some years before that. I'm sure the directors negotiated the best deal for the club, which I assume has gone towards player recruitment. 

So, a lot of moaning here, so what are peoples sensible suggestions to make things better, other than the usual sack the board/manager stuff? And please no one suggest bring back Brad.

It's a fact that financially we are way down compared to the budgets of other clubs. Look at why players join the likes of Hornchurch rather than us. So how do we improve our income streams? again sensible suggestions only please.

Finally on the subject of Hornchurch, last season they were 23 points better than us and worthy champions. Despite what I assume to be investment in their team they sit one place higher than us tonight. Maybe the harsh reality is that the Isthmian league is far weaker than we think and the gap to NLS is greater than we thought. Cheshunt came straight back down, Aveley are struggling after one good year and are flirting with relegation, as are we and Hornchurch. Is it a fact that players in this area of the country know that they can hawk themselves around until they sign for the highest bidder, whilst someone like Chippenham or Worthing doesn't have that amount of competition?

Have a good night Towners, there's always Saturday to look forward to.

I can’t speak for every fan of course - but with me if we get relegated, and god forbid we do, I’m worried that we’ll be stuck in the isthmian league flirting with promotion and playoffs once again which is fine but when you get to the point of what we have now, etc big away days, bigger grounds, bigger attendances.. feels like we’ve been working towards this moment for the last 20 years and we’re not showing any fight at the moment. Earlier in the season, if a few things went our way we could of comfortably took a few points.

Now, the massive thing is staying up, means Gavin or whoever is in charge will get more of a budget and we’ll have a bit more pedigree next season and we’ll know what to expect. But shipping 4 goals most weeks is unacceptable whichever way we toss and turn it.

I do reckon we can beat most teams at home though and that’s what it will come to, making our place a hard place to come to and not being nervous. 

I do think we can win on Saturday, Chesham are a funny team like most teams in this league. COYT 

[Barney]

Very good post PV, and this part especially rings true for me:

10 hours ago, Pretty Vacant said:

Finally on the subject of Hornchurch, last season they were 23 points better than us and worthy champions. Despite what I assume to be investment in their team they sit one place higher than us tonight. Maybe the harsh reality is that the Isthmian league is far weaker than we think and the gap to NLS is greater than we thought. Cheshunt came straight back down, Aveley are struggling after one good year and are flirting with relegation, as are we and Hornchurch. Is it a fact that players in this area of the country know that they can hawk themselves around until they sign for the highest bidder, whilst someone like Chippenham or Worthing doesn't have that amount of competition?

I think most of us expected the step up to be very tough, but possibly not as tough at it has been. When you look at the league, there are some really big, well established, well funded sides in there. I would love for us to find a way to stay up somehow, hopefully build on that, and get a foothold in the division (I've loved the away days I've been on, and it really feels like we are at a level we should be aspiring to as a club), but given where we are in our development, we're maybe finding out that we aren't ready. Unfortunately the more likely outcome seems to be going back down, trying to reset, develop our infrastructure and income streams and getting ourselves in a position to try this again after a period of time when we have a better financial base to do so. I know nobody wants that to happen, but given our self funding, supporter owned model, establishing ourselves at this level is going to take a lot more time than it does for clubs who can just chuck money at players, and rise up the divisions (and equally fall as quickly if the money taps are turned off).

We are currently 4th bottom, which based on how we've played is probably about right - 3 sides worse than us, and a worrying gap starting to develop between us and the team(s) that we need to catch to secure that all important 5th from bottom finish. It's not insurmountable, but we need to start to pick up points again and hopefully get on some kind of roll / gain some momentum and confidence. The points people have made about team stability are totally fair as well - we've had an enormous turnover of players, some of the players coming in have strengthened us, others have fallen by the wayside, but the lack of a consistent side that know each other feels like it's really hurting us. On the flip side, if we'd have had the same 13 or 15 players playing every game, and still been in this position, people would be questioning why the management weren't trying to strengthen us and make changes. Clearly much more scrutiny on the management when results aren't going well, as they're the obvious people to point the finger at - this is fair to an extent, ultimately the buck stops with them in terms of results, however I don't blame Gavin or anyone for where we find ourselves. If we're punching above our weight in this division, and the budget is restricting us, there's only so much we can do. I remain hopeful that we can pull off the great escape, and we do have enough time to do it, however I'm not going to be calling for anyone's head if we don't (fully accept that others might disagree with this, but football, and this forum is all about opinions).

As for Marcus, yes, I think he would have made a difference if he'd stayed - but I wouldn't see him as some kind of saviour for us at this level, ultimately we need another 10 players good enough to get him the ball in advanced positions where he can hurt sides, as well as defend for 90 minutes, and I'm not sure we have that. Look at Sam for example - one of the standout players last season in the division below, scoring 25+ goals, but hasn't done that for us this year (not questioning his overall contribution and effort). This is probably because we're not getting him the ball in the right places with enough time to work those chances to score, and he's spending much of the game defending as we just don't have as much of the ball. That's the nature of going up a league - you win and lose as a team, and unless you have an absolute superstar, any good player is going to struggle in a side that's struggling generally. What I think we're probably lacking most is an experienced midfield organiser - someone who talks other players through games, can get involved in the so called 'dark arts', can dictate the tempo, slow things down when required, and generally captains and leads the team on the pitch. Someone like Quinton as a player would be ideal - just to help us manage games. I know these sorts of players probably don't come cheap, but we probably do need to be a bit less nice, and a bit more savvy to get over the line in tight games that we've lost by the odd goal. The games where we've been outplayed, we probably just have to hold up our hands and accept that sides are better than us, and move on without letting it dent our confidence too much.

Sorry this is a bit of a stream of consciousness, I'm typing this after my second coffee of the morning

[No bull Towner]

9 hours ago, ETFC2001 said:

I can’t speak for every fan of course - but with me if we get relegated, and god forbid we do, I’m worried that we’ll be stuck in the isthmian league flirting with promotion and playoffs once again which is fine but when you get to the point of what we have now, etc big away days, bigger grounds, bigger attendances.. feels like we’ve been working towards this moment for the last 20 years and we’re not showing any fight at the moment. Earlier in the season, if a few things went our way we could of comfortably took a few points.

Now, the massive thing is staying up, means Gavin or whoever is in charge will get more of a budget and we’ll have a bit more pedigree next season and we’ll know what to expect. But shipping 4 goals most weeks is unacceptable whichever way we toss and turn it.

I do reckon we can beat most teams at home though and that’s what it will come to, making our place a hard place to come to and not being nervous. 

I do think we can win on Saturday, Chesham are a funny team like most teams in this league. COYT 

I agree with what you are saying that it would be a struggle and probably many years to get the opportunity to be in NLS again if we get relegated. Being at home should be our fortress and it would be great to get that. I think we can give that feeling to the lads but we won't get that by walking away at the end of matches or by not singing for 90 mins. If we are depressed by results how do we think they feel? No team likes to keep losing or sets out to lose and I'm sure they beat themselves up for it but they also carry the burden of letting the fans down and I feel they need us more than ever to be that extra man! There's nothing to keep players at the club except their desire to win and please the fans so it's easy for us to lose most of the team in a single week if they feel it's pointless and we aren't  behind them. They could all get back to winning ways dropping down to other clubs so we have to make them want to stay. Football is a funny old game and we've had a tough start but over the season other teams will have bad patches too and the gap narrows. We need to try and be positive and help to lift their dropping heads...if we all go that extra mile be it support or guts on the pitch who knows what can happen COYT

[No bull Towner]

39 minutes ago, Barney said:

Very good post PV, and this part especially rings true for me:

I think most of us expected the step up to be very tough, but possibly not as tough at it has been. When you look at the league, there are some really big, well established, well funded sides in there. I would love for us to find a way to stay up somehow, hopefully build on that, and get a foothold in the division (I've loved the away days I've been on, and it really feels like we are at a level we should be aspiring to as a club), but given where we are in our development, we're maybe finding out that we aren't ready. Unfortunately the more likely outcome seems to be going back down, trying to reset, develop our infrastructure and income streams and getting ourselves in a position to try this again after a period of time when we have a better financial base to do so. I know nobody wants that to happen, but given our self funding, supporter owned model, establishing ourselves at this level is going to take a lot more time than it does for clubs who can just chuck money at players, and rise up the divisions (and equally fall as quickly if the money taps are turned off).

We are currently 4th bottom, which based on how we've played is probably about right - 3 sides worse than us, and a worrying gap starting to develop between us and the team(s) that we need to catch to secure that all important 5th from bottom finish. It's not insurmountable, but we need to start to pick up points again and hopefully get on some kind of roll / gain some momentum and confidence. The points people have made about team stability are totally fair as well - we've had an enormous turnover of players, some of the players coming in have strengthened us, others have fallen by the wayside, but the lack of a consistent side that know each other feels like it's really hurting us. On the flip side, if we'd have had the same 13 or 15 players playing every game, and still been in this position, people would be questioning why the management weren't trying to strengthen us and make changes. Clearly much more scrutiny on the management when results aren't going well, as they're the obvious people to point the finger at - this is fair to an extent, ultimately the buck stops with them in terms of results, however I don't blame Gavin or anyone for where we find ourselves. If we're punching above our weight in this division, and the budget is restricting us, there's only so much we can do. I remain hopeful that we can pull off the great escape, and we do have enough time to do it, however I'm not going to be calling for anyone's head if we don't (fully accept that others might disagree with this, but football, and this forum is all about opinions).

As for Marcus, yes, I think he would have made a difference if he'd stayed - but I wouldn't see him as some kind of saviour for us at this level, ultimately we need another 10 players good enough to get him the ball in advanced positions where he can hurt sides, as well as defend for 90 minutes, and I'm not sure we have that. Look at Sam for example - one of the standout players last season in the division below, scoring 25+ goals, but hasn't done that for us this year (not questioning his overall contribution and effort). This is probably because we're not getting him the ball in the right places with enough time to work those chances to score, and he's spending much of the game defending as we just don't have as much of the ball. That's the nature of going up a league - you win and lose as a team, and unless you have an absolute superstar, any good player is going to struggle in a side that's struggling generally. What I think we're probably lacking most is an experienced midfield organiser - someone who talks other players through games, can get involved in the so called 'dark arts', can dictate the tempo, slow things down when required, and generally captains and leads the team on the pitch. Someone like Quinton as a player would be ideal - just to help us manage games. I know these sorts of players probably don't come cheap, but we probably do need to be a bit less nice, and a bit more savvy to get over the line in tight games that we've lost by the odd goal. The games where we've been outplayed, we probably just have to hold up our hands and accept that sides are better than us, and move on without letting it dent our confidence too much.

Sorry this is a bit of a stream of consciousness, I'm typing this after my second coffee of the morning

100% agree with everything you've said Barney 

[lovely stuff]

27 minutes ago, No bull Towner said:

I agree with what you are saying that it would be a struggle and probably many years to get the opportunity to be in NLS again if we get relegated.

We can't have it both ways. We can't say we are mainly struggling this season because this league is far stronger than the Isthmian, then say it would take us many years to get back out of that 'weaker' league again. The problem as i see how to NOT get relegated from the NSL this season or when we (hopefully fairly quickly) get back into it.

[wilson]

I am too far away to make any useful comment. I can find a lot to agree with in a number of comments on this thread. I am sure that we all want the club to survive at this level. I am tentatively planning what may be my last visit “back home” next August. If it happens I would love to see the team playing at National League South level but something will need to change and hopefully quickly.

In my view there are three components which are potential contributors to our current plight - the budget, team management and the team itself. I can only trust that the club makes the right decision because I think doing nothing is not an option. My fingers are crossed.