ETFC v Aveley

[No bull Towner]

It surprises me how quickly people turn. I know the game can be ruthless but I don't think a new manager would be the saving grace some think. The budget will still be the budget. Location will still be the location. You can't make players come or stay if they don't want to. As time goes on we become less attractive than we were at the beginning of the season as not many players want to come to a struggling side and try to pull them out of a hole. I would imagine Gav went after lots of players and probably still is but if there are more attractive propositions with fatter wallets that's not exactly his fault. What else should he do short of kidnapping them? We don't know the reasons behind the 'revolving door' but it is likely down to a variety of reasons. Gav might have got rid of some, some might have got better offers if not playing enough, some might have been too expensive long term, some might have work problems, some might have big egos, the commute to training/matches might not suit after all....the list could go on and on and doesn't necessarily mean that there is unrest in the changing room or that it is all down to poor judgement. It is very disappointing to not have got a few more results but I would hazard a guess that the team we had today isn't going to get improved much and hopefully they will be a regular starting line up rotating the starters and bench as today our bench could easily have started too. I'm hoping this is the start of a settled squad and with less changes they will start to read each others minds and cover each other seamlessly. I get that you won't all agree with me but I just can't be as negative and feed into conspiracy theories as that won't help at all. Our position is still the same though a little more precarious but it's not yet beyond hope....let's go get Welling on Tuesday 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

16 minutes ago, No bull Towner said:

What else should he do short of kidnapping them? 

I'm open to Gavin trying anything which may yield results.

[Nobster180]

After the Torquay game at the start of the season it looked like we’d be ok didn’t it, but we just look overwhelmed most games , I think we need to be more like let them worry about us and just have a go at them, but it just hasn’t happened has it?.probably as there of a better standard, so everything is so much harder if you’re against better players.

With gavin’s interviews it feels like he’s lost his confidence as he’s never struggled like this before in his manager career, and I feel for him and really want him to sort it out as he deserves time ,

We would of probably settled for a defeat in last year’s playoff final away at Chatham as a good season, but we tactically got it spot on, and here we now !

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

What your saying NBT is that a manager has zero input on what goes on off or on the field and it doesn’t matter who was in charge we would still be in this position… The buck stops with the manager always has … i’m sick to death of hearing that nearly every player we have bought in hasn’t been good enough because we can’t afford good players that’s bollox… good players can be made to look very ordinary playing in a disorganised shambolic mess which is what we are at the moment…. we’re going to have a lovely ground with a great new stand with nobody in it unless we start thinking and believing we are a NLS side…. If Gavin can turn it round quickly then that’s great if not then change just like any other club would do…

[No bull Towner]

4 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

What your saying NBT is that a manager has zero input on what goes on off or on the field and it doesn’t matter who was in charge we would still be in this position… The buck stops with the manager always has … i’m sick to death of hearing that nearly every player we have bought in hasn’t been good enough because we can’t afford good players that’s bollox… good players can be made to look very ordinary playing in a disorganised shambolic mess which is what we are at the moment…. we’re going to have a lovely ground with a great new stand with nobody in it unless we start thinking and believing we are a NLS side…. If Gavin can turn it round quickly then that’s great if not then change just like any other club would do…

No that's not what I'm saying as of course he has made decisions on bringing in players, team selection and tactics as to how they should play but that has all been within constraints of budget and players wanting to come/stay. He could have wanted to bring in a whole new squad for all we know but if that squad would cost several thousands a week more than we can afford then it can't happen can it? That's not bollox that's common sense!! We are making do with what we've got and trying to improve where we can by the looks of it. Perhaps as you think you have all the answers and everyone else just chats bollox you could go and find a new squad who don't make mistakes, a manager who has top flight players on standby and a money tree to fund it all.....I'll wait to see what you (or your new manager) achieves

[ETFC2001]

I can imagine that recruiting is getting harder by the day with the results that we are currently getting at the moment, and we obviously must have a really tight budget which is understandable which makes it all the more important to stay up and try and pull a few results together.

The most important thing is getting results but also the fans keeping the belief that we belong to stay up here and backing the manager/team no matter and not making the stadium negative even if we don’t like some decisions or vice versa.

[The Crowing Cockerel]

History suggests we should need approx 1pt/game over the course of the season in order to stay up - so 46pts+.

We have 9pts from 13 games.

We now probably need at least 37pts from our remaining 33 games.

Given that we have to play Borehamwood (x2), Worthing (x2), Dorking (x2), Slough (away)...etc, I'd suggest our season will now be defined by results in the 2 games against St Albans, the 2 games against Hornchurch, the 2 games against Welling, the return game against Aveley, the return game against Weymouth and the 2 games against Chelmsford.

Win that lot and we might just be ok.

In short, we're already looking for an act of god in order to preserve our league status.

[symptomless]

I thought the formation yesterday was positive; two up front, very wide wingers and at times we gelled and created good chances. It was an evenly matched start and was there for the taking.

Smith did a fantastic job at pressuring their midfield to win possession and create something out of nothing for the first goal. Oyenuga promising runs. Controlled the play at the back and good creative play in the middle. All good.

So why does it go so wrong? We've got enough evidence of where some of the problems lie. We know we've got constraints on budget etc but some of these things are fixable with what we've got.

Often we take a lead and then concede soon after being hit on the break, happened yesterday before halftime, the same happened last week against Farnborough, happened against Chippenham, many more examples. Are we trying to kill the game off? Committing too many players forward unnecessarily at the wrong times? We managed to shut down shop against Bath, it doesn't look like we're even attempting that now. Backs against the wall football isn't pretty but, needs must. Defence in disarray football isn't particularly pretty either.

Defenders giving too much time and space to opposition forwards to pick a pass/cross when it's 1v1 is killing us. I'm not saying dive in but don't stand off either. At the very least be close and patient and at least force him onto his wrong foot. It's just basic stuff.

Anyway, it was an entertaining game and plenty to talk about once again! Maybe the sun was in Forster's eyes for a couple of those in the 2nd half, who knows?

Anyway, on to Welling.

Edited October 20 by symptomless

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

Every league pro or amateur have teams that have inferior budgets… some survive some excel but none of them constantly moan about how poor their squad is coz they can’t afford better…it’s a fantastic excuse for underachieving… if as a club we think we have got the best out of our 32 players used then we might as well throw in the towel …great interview this week… we can’t defend and we can’t attack but apart from that everything was ok….

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

13 minutes ago, symptomless said:

I thought the formation yesterday was positive; two up front, very wide wingers and at times we gelled and created good chances. It was an evenly matched start and was there for the taking.

Smith did a fantastic job at pressuring their midfield to win possession and create something out of nothing for the first goal. Oyenuga promising runs. Creative play in the middle. All good.

So why does it go so wrong? We've got enough evidence of where some of the problems lie. We know we've got constraints on budget etc but some of these things are fixable with what we've got.

Often we take a lead and then concede soon after being hit on the break, happened yesterday before halftime, the same happened last week against Farnborough, happened against Chippenham, many more examples. Are we trying to kill the game off? Committing too many players forward unnecessarily at the wrong times? We managed to shut down shop against Bath, it doesn't look like we're even attempting that now. Backs against the wall football isn't pretty but, needs must. Defence in disarray football isn't particularly pretty either.

Defenders giving too much time and space to opposition forwards to pick a pass/cross when it's 1v1 is killing us. I'm not saying dive in but don't stand off either. At the very least be close and patient and at least force him onto his wrong foot. It's just basic stuff.

Anyway, it was an entertaining game and plenty to talk about once again! Maybe the sun was in Forster's for a couple of those in the 2nd half, who knows?

Anyway, on to Welling.

The last few paragraphs are spot on Symptoms… coaching at a basic level….

[No bull Towner]

1 hour ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

Every league pro or amateur have teams that have inferior budgets… some survive some excel but none of them constantly moan about how poor their squad is coz they can’t afford better…it’s a fantastic excuse for underachieving… if as a club we think we have got the best out of our 32 players used then we might as well throw in the towel …great interview this week… we can’t defend and we can’t attack but apart from that everything was ok….

I bet you're great fun at parties!!

[djwilf]

Gavin spoke about this a little bit after the match yesterday but I guess this is probably the biggest reason why we're struggling this season

Recruitment, recruitment, recruitment.

3 months between Chatham and Torquay plus the fact there was substantial interest in Marcus last season

The step up

Route 1 not being something that will work at this level

Defensive errors

We've looked a step/2 steps behind as well as lacking in quality, even though Gavin argues "what do you mean by quality"

Only being able to score 12 goals in 13 games(not finding a suitable player to replace Marcus in 90 + days)

- 20 GD

Welling, Chesham, Salisbury, Dorking and Hornchurch upcoming I would guess our future will be decided within the next month and at this moment in time I'm not convinced that this team/manager has enough to turn it round quickly enough.

Of course I'd love to be proven wrong....however I'm not even sure a new manager would be able to turn our fortunes around with so much to do in such a short period of time.   We can but hope.

 

 

[Raingod]

Devastated we lost yesterday .. felt it was such a crucial game .. and wanted to sleep on it before commenting .. good to see lots of interesting points ...

Should we replace Gavin now? 

Absolutely not - there are some signs of improvement - vs Weymouth, H1 at Farnboro (I am told as not there) and first hour yesterday .. we are being bolder in our selections, I think a back 3 is the only way forward at present .. and in reality we have taken 6 pts from last 5 games with 2 wins and 3 losses = 1.2 pts per game - we continue that and we can get to the target ...

Yesterday we made some good chances - Jake was almost clean through before being brought down, he was clean through but should have shot - appears to lack confidence in trying to pass, Oyenuga created some good opportunities (yes was my MOM as well, though Harry a close second with goal and assist), and in the 2nd half we twice flashed it across with no one getting a touch .. we deserved something from the game, and we could have been a few goals up .. this is in contrast to earlier in the season .. Had we won yesterday I think we would have been feeling good, gap vs the teams below and 2 pts from safety ..

The step up to NLS is massive - learnings for all at the club. When Gav joined he used his little black book to bring in the likes of Rhys and Ollie - he simply does not have the contacts at this level, coupled with the difficulties of budgets, agents, etc. 

Gav has been active in the transfer market and has made some mistakes, has he given some players enough time? But the team has improved in the last month or so - yes it is not there yet by any means and the defence still needs a lot of work ..- but there is starting to be a nucleus.  

Defence needs sorting; Plus we need a CDM like Matt Johnson or Ryan Blackman to protect the back line; we do not have enough height in the team to score from set pieces or defend them (I had hoped Mensah was the answer - yes he made a few mistakes but won all his aerial duals - struggling to train on a Thursday does not feel like the real answer here ..). Plus we don't have an LDV type player to score free kicks when we get the chance.

Cox is our 3rd young professional loanee - a gamble strategically  but both Tuck and Mills have both improved the XI - I expect Cox  to start Tuesday ...

The next 5 games are crucial - 4 out of 5 being against teams 12th or below (and Dorking have had an indifferent start considering they were faves pre season). We need to be getting back on track here as this is followed by a run of 5 against top 12 opposition ...after Hornchurch away end of month time to reassess ...

I also feel St Albans and Weymouth fans are entitled to have higher expectations - they would have expected to be mid table or challenging for play offs - our aim is to finish 20th or above - so I don't feel our positions  are directly comparable.

HOWEVER NLS survival is something we must be putting above all else, and if that means a managerial change is needed later in the season then so be it - if and when we are adrift from safety and appear to have lost the confidence then that needs to happen - both Stortford and Cheshunt have suffered and gone backwards by going straight down and we need to do all we can to avoid it.

A new manager would bring in new ideas, have contacts at this level who they could bring in .. I know some have never forgiven Brad for taking the team with him in 2017, but he did get Braintree promoted and has also managed Welling and Hemel .. if the time came the board would need to make the choice and bring in someone who can shake things up .. there will be plenty of managers with Step 2 or above experience out there ...

For now we need to keep giving the team our full vocal support (felt the crowd was more subdued yesterday vs Weymouth?) ,, and feel we really need to get something at Welling Tues .. my last visit to their ground was Sep 89 in Enfield's Conference relegation season - hope that is not an omen ...

 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

1 hour ago, Raingod said:

When Gav joined he used his little black book to bring in the likes of Rhys and Ollie - he simply does not have the contacts at this level, coupled with the difficulties of budgets, agents, etc. 

...

Defence needs sorting; Plus we need a CDM like Matt Johnson or Ryan Blackman to protect the back line; we do not have enough height in the team to score from set pieces or defend them (I had hoped Mensah was the answer - yes he made a few mistakes but won all his aerial duals - struggling to train on a Thursday does not feel like the real answer here ..). Plus we don't have an LDV type player to score free kicks when we get the chance.

Cox is our 3rd young professional loanee - a gamble strategically  but both Tuck and Mills have both improved the XI - I expect Cox  to start Tuesday ...

...

HOWEVER NLS survival is something we must be putting above all else, and if that means a managerial change is needed later in the season then so be it - if and when we are adrift from safety and appear to have lost the confidence then that needs to happen - both Stortford and Cheshunt have suffered and gone backwards by going straight down and we need to do all we can to avoid it.

A new manager would bring in new ideas, have contacts at this level who they could bring in .. I know some have never forgiven Brad for taking the team with him in 2017, but he did get Braintree promoted and has also managed Welling and Hemel .. if the time came the board would need to make the choice and bring in someone who can shake things up .. there will be plenty of managers with Step 2 or above experience out there ...

Great post, Raingod.

Just on the above:

I had hoped/assumed Gavin would be connected enough to recruit well at this level. In fact, I'm not sure that his acquisitions have been that bad - take Kasimu for example, who has move on to the league leaders despite failing to set the world on fire with us. For me it was the tactics and style of play where Gavin has failed up until recently. He recognised that our defence and midfield weren't up to it, but tried to compensate by playing one up front and seeking to bolster the midfield. Unfortunately it was obvious for all to see that this resulted in there being no way of relieving pressure with the lone front man unable to keep hold of it/get on the end of it. Chucking two up front recently has helped on that front by providing an additional outlet and also occupying the opposition's midfield/defence much more - thereby relieving some of the pressure on us.

We need another commanding centre-half. We also need a CDM. Its a shame we couldn't hold on to Manny Harvest - he did a great job there last season. I note that Ryan Blackman hasn't been in the Chelmsford match day squad recently - injured or out of favour?

I cannot see a situation where the board sack Gavin this season. They will want to hang on to him for next season no matter what. What would seem more likely is that Gavin might fall on his sword at some point. I mean, this post-match interviews are no fun - and I can't imagine he fancies another 30-odd of them! The only way the club could/should change manager would be if they had a ready-made replacement (i.e. BQ) who had players ready to join up on a rescue mission.

[No bull Towner]

Do we know if management/players are on this forum? I sincerely hope not with the negativity on here at the moment. It's fine to be disappointed, we all are, fans, management, players, everybody, but this is where we should be picking them up and carrying them with our support not calling for their heads already. Talk about hero to zero!

[The Crowing Cockerel]

3 minutes ago, No bull Towner said:

Do we know if management/players are on this forum? I sincerely hope not with the negativity on here at the moment. It's fine to be disappointed, we all are, fans, management, players, everybody, but this is where we should be picking them up and carrying them with our support not calling for their heads already. Talk about hero to zero!

I think Rhys has appeared on here in the past. I don't get the impression that Gavin would come near here though - which reminds me: its refreshing to see the Slough manager occasionally respond to fans on their forum - even explaining recent signings/departures.

[djwilf]

Be as positive as you like NBT.     I wont lie. Accountability is one of the best ways our team could be better.

I bet if you asked every fan on this forum....not including you know who.. to name our 3 main positives this year you may get some interesting responses. 

 

Last season was amazing.   Its distant now we re in a dogfight though.    Be good to know who our leaders in the changing room are??

 

"I don't always tell them what they want to hear. But it's extremely important that I tell them what they need to hear. I don't tell them how great they are. I tell them how hard they have got to work to be great."

Edited October 20 by djwilf

[No bull Towner]

22 minutes ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I think Rhys has appeared on here in the past. I don't get the impression that Gavin would come near here though - which reminds me: its refreshing to see the Slough manager occasionally respond to fans on their forum - even explaining recent signings/departures.

I agree that a bit more transparency over why players have left wouldn't go amiss and would possibly avoid unnecessary speculation. I had hoped the commentary would have filled in the gaps but apart from Mensah there was nothing on Leshabela or Nembard. Leshabela I assume was poached but no idea on Nembard still

[WHY DO I BOTHER]

Any chance the fans/members can have a bit of transparency regarding players leaving our club 
OK we know about Mensa and his difficulty getting to training Thurs but what about the other two.
Also the club sign Cox, a Welsh International left sided centre half from Derby and then leave him on the bench.
Apparently the club had to pay B/B accommodation for the lad overnight as he lives in Burton on Trent as I understand 
Will he be available Tues 🤔

 

Taken from the other forum… traveled down and sat on the bench… unbelievable….. 

[The Crowing Cockerel]

9 minutes ago, WHY DO I BOTHER said:

Any chance the fans/members can have a bit of transparency regarding players leaving our club 
OK we know about Mensa and his difficulty getting to training Thurs but what about the other two.
Also the club sign Cox, a Welsh International left sided centre half from Derby and then leave him on the bench.
Apparently the club had to pay B/B accommodation for the lad overnight as he lives in Burton on Trent as I understand 
Will he be available Tues 🤔

 

Taken from the other forum… traveled down and sat on the bench… unbelievable….. 

I assume the difficulty there would be that he would replace Joe Payne in this system - and we are persisting (like most other clubs at this level) with the long throws. I may be wrong, but I can't remember a goal scored this season from a long throw or other set piece.

Lets hope Cox starts on Tuesday.