Bishop's Stortford v Enfield Town

[4wembleyfinals]

I very much respect your opinion 55 and I too see no need for acrimony. 

I feel that the club is now at the crossroads and serious decisions have to be made. We can only wait and see what the Board decide.  

In answer to Andy, I agree it may take several years before the project will be up and running and benefits received. All the more reason to ensure that the playing side has the support of sufficient funds to run until then. Otherwise you could end up with new real estate stock with a large unused playing field.

 

 

 

[Steph]

He has to go. Every year under his management there is no team building but a collection of older players that can see us through to the end of the season. Who in this side will be playing for us next year?

If the manager stays I can think of 2, McDonald and Youngs. I have thought that Della Verde has never been given a fair chance. He has a football brain but spread wide and team mates not using him is not going to give him many opportunities to see what he can do. Taaffe a hard worker who gives his all for the team. Will they be there next year? Coker with head down and tries to beat a man at least 3 times before passing the ball.

Things have to change, bring in a young manager who will use the youth who have been let go by the Prem and Championship sides and build up a youth team ourselves. I dont mind playing in the Isthmian leage but it is the drab football dished up week after week that I cant stand. Boot the ball to the big man (perhaps sometimes 2 big men) up front and see what they can do against a fit, tall three or four man defence.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Steph
Typing error

[andyetfc]

3 hours ago, 4wembleyfinals said:

I very much respect your opinion 55 and I too see no need for acrimony. 

I feel that the club is now at the crossroads and serious decisions have to be made. We can only wait and see what the Board decide.  

In answer to Andy, I agree it may take several years before the project will be up and running and benefits received. All the more reason to ensure that the playing side has the support of sufficient funds to run until then. Otherwise you could end up with new real estate stock with a large unused playing field.

 

 

 

I think it could take more than several years as there’s a lot of money involved. Do you know anyone with a few million £s? 

[4wembleyfinals]

You may be surprised Andy I do. But I don't think they would consider investing in a Football Club. They have worked very hard to build up their positions and use their money much wiser.

Edited April 15, 2023 by 4wembleyfinals

[The Crowing Cockerel]

Andy Leese must be relieved of his position - preferably before the Aveley game. If the Chairman is not prepared to sack him (because I think it unlikely he'll resign,) then he must come out and explain why and the club's owners can make a decision as to whether the Chairman is also the right person to take this club forwards. As fans we have put up with terrible football for too long. Were it not for Mo Faal, Andy surely would've been removed a year+ ago. Each and every fan on the terraces has been able to see what we really are - a mid-table side playing long ball football. Its time for new faces and new ideas - and I don't mean promoting Mario to the hot seat.

Over to you, Mr Chairman...

[Benjrider10]

Lots of negativity here but let’s not forget that we were beaten by the strongest team in the league. The 2 standout players for me were Stortford’s Matt Johnson (wouldn’t it be great to have him back) and Frankie Merriefield, who would improve any team at our level. And I’m sure they are compensated accordingly.

We all want to do well in the league and win a cup every season, but we must stay within our means. I’m not saying that things don’t need to change - they do. I’ve not been impressed at all with the style of football I’ve seen since returning from abroad. But yesterday we were beaten by a team who deserve to win the league.

I won’t be surprised if a lot of the current squad decide they want to play somewhere else next season regardless. It feels like we have plateaued. The only question is does a new approach require a new manager. Easy to type “yes” on a forum - not so easy in practice.

[andyetfc]

It’s not just losing to one team that’s disappointing. 

[4wembleyfinals]

5 hours ago, Benjrider10 said:

 

We all want to do well in the league and win a cup every season, but we must stay within our means. I’m not saying that things don’t need to change - they do. I’ve not been impressed at all with the style of football I’ve seen since returning from abroad. But yesterday we were beaten by a team who deserve to win the league.

I won’t be surprised if a lot of the current squad decide they want to play somewhere else next season regardless. It feels like we have plateaued. The only question is does a new approach require a new manager. Easy to type “yes” on a forum - not so easy in practice.

If you were to go back to about the 2017/18 period B10 you would see that I questioned whether AL was the right man and warned what to expect from the way his teams played. Especially as the two of the other candidates were younger.  One of whom I was led to believe was the assistant manager of a top National League side.  Basically it would seem that AL was chosen because he was cheap and was within our means.

It is now 2023 and we are still quoting the same reasons, within our means, yet we are proposing to enter into a period of expansion which, if even funded by outside sources, we will have to find more revenue to pay for buildings maintenance!!! Don't get me wrong I am in support of the building scheme which no doubt bring with it underlying risks.  But I would like to see a similar risk taken in trying to improve our current revenue stream by investing more in our Football Team.

[Steph]

"The only question is does a new approach require a new manager. Easy to type “yes” on a forum - not so easy in practice. " Posted by Benjrider

The only response to that question is a definite "Yes!"

The manager has played the same way in the six years he has been here. (Thanks for the reminder 4 WF). He brings in competent players who are often older than 30 and they play to their best but there is no change in method. One of the most illuminating things I have seen this season was the free kick outside the area against Haringey Borough. They had done their homework and expected a shot at goal by Della Verde so they did not create a defensive wall but packed their players in the goal area. We did not responde so DV took his shot and it was easily cleared. Haringey gave us space and we did not use it. A pass to one of our attackers would have thrown them in confusion but this did not happen, so where is the coaching on the pitch?

[lovely stuff]

Apparently i recommended Andy Leese as our new manager on this forum many years before we actually appointed him.!

Let me say that i feel he is a solid experienced manager (and a safe pair of hands at this level) he is also a hard working manager and has put in many hundreds of hours in for the benefit of our club...Andy's record has been about par with the club's finances and attendances over his tenure. (Ie..About 7th-8th in the league). He also stabilized the club on the field after Quinton left us in the mire.

My main problems are:

1. We seem to be treading water and are not really progressing on the field at all. (season after season)

2. We always struggle against the better teams in the league. (season after season)

3. The vast turnover of players and lack of settled formation or line-up. (season after season)

4. The style of play and technical quality of the players is average at best (season after season). Where are the flair players / the fast exciting wide players that we have always enjoyed watching in the past? 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by lovely stuff

[4wembleyfinals]

I think, Steph, that your analogy exposes where I have been coming from regarding the coaching and planning included in the teams training. Plus AL's apparent unwillingness to change. A matter to which I have constantly referred. Mind you I do appreciated how hard has worked in recruitment in order to maintain the squad at an acceptable level.  But he is locked into his philosophy as to how he wants the team to play.   

As usual I cannot fault your observations LS. But for myself after 5/6 years of the same it is about time for a change.

To achieve this  board will have to consider their options and advise the members what action they have  agree to take.  For my part I feel that it is far better to agree an immediate change rather than a wait and see option. However, this is where I am about to contradict myself, because in fact I would prefer AL to remain for another year rather the latter option. Because changes to management, especially midseason, is usually followed by disaster. 

I

 

[andyetfc]

4WF. We are hardly mid season, or were you talking about next season? Managers, like players, come and go and I think it’s now time for a change otherwise we will be served with the same type of football next season.

[4wembleyfinals]

Hi Andy, I was stating that if it is suggested any decision re management should for left for the time being and see what happens, sometime next season, it would cause more harm than good. 

Really I believe my thoughts are similar to yours in that change is needed now so that plans can be made well in advance of next season.

I think that we are now in a position of wait and see what happens!!!!! Is really good being a share holder of the club😴🙄😴🥶 so much responsibility.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by 4wembleyfinals

[djwilf]

Im not wanting to appear ungrateful at all.

 

Just listened to Andy's interview tonight.   He's hit the nail on the head and makes all the right noises.   The preparation has been there.  I'm sure they have worked hard in training for each opponent.   He admitted though we haven't been good enough.   Dropping 30 points in the last 15 shows how we've thrown this year away. 

 

A new approach....yes, drastically needed.  

Our main tactics this year.....Joe throwing it long.

Nathan hitting it long down the wings which he practices EVERY warm up.

Adam probably being one of our most effective players, but this not being enough at this level as there has to be a Plan B.

Tiki Taka?

Overlapping runs?

Possession play?

 

Does anyone on here actually know our best tactics have been? I couldn't tell you what our options have been this season going on the number of games I've seen hone and away.

 

I think we play our best football on the floor, and Adam is a pain for most defences.  However our most frustrating performances this year ball spends half the time in the air...(that's not football) and we give the ball away way too quickly.

 

However, we haven't scored enough and think if you wanted to know what most of our fans thought it would be to be

1 Be entertaining

2 Have a proper go.

 

In the majority of the season we've done neither.

[Crusty Lee]

Just worked out that 24 of our goals, exactly 1/3rd, were scored against the 4 relegated teams. And that 19 of our +25 goal difference came from those games. I have a saying that "the table doesn't lie but it doesn't tell the whole truth either." To an outsider our position and GD probably looks moderately successful but in terms of what we've seen on the pitch, we know it wasn't so good.

If I hadn't read everyone else's comments, my own gripes would've been :

1) My key word for games is "watchable" rather than entertaining which always sounds like tricks and showbiz to me. Regardless of results, a lot of games have been largely unwatchable. I think I first came along during Brad Quinton's time and I'm sure that felt more watchable with more passing and working our way up the field. Rather than the long punts and "go fetch" style we have been treated to. Happy to have my poor memory challenged on this.

2) It seems a long time ago when I said to a friend I'm tempted to turn up after 40 minutes, just like the team. The recent Hornchurch game was excellent from the point that we started on the front foot and took the game to them. Feels rare this season.

3) Having initiatives to attract new supporters is all very well but it felt like the marketing dept email hadn't been copied to (or read by?) the coaching staff - to have a go. A friend of mine has said a couple of times that he must come down sometime. In my head I've been saying to myself, "no you mustn't. you'll be really bored."

4) I've never understood all the kids kicking balls around behind the goals during the game. Clearly it's that boring to watch the match. But notice when there's some action like an LDV freekick they all stop and come rushing to see. I think more exciting tactics might engage them more.

5) I miss seeing a ferret like Ryan Blackman getting in amongst the opposition. Ok not so good from a discplinary angle but enjoyable to watch.

6) In one of the earliest games we did a couple of corners straight off the training ground. They didn't work but were novel and I'd like to see more. Keep the opposition guessing. I got bored against Haringey watching Joe Payne traipsing diagonally across the pitch to take his long throw ins. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great skill but it wasn't working and it needed mixing up with at least one player being close for a short throw.

7) Those LDV freekicks recently that someone referred to. I think it was Joe Payne in acres of space on the left for the 2nd one. LDV could have scudded it to his feet and Joe would've been in the area behind the wall. Firstly, always chance of a penalty. Secondly, fair chance of an own goal. Cut back to the penalty spot (ish) and hope we get to it first. Certainly no danger of an offside.

Anyway, that's my thoughts, many agreeing with what others have said. It's easy to have a downer just now as the season peters out. Just think it'll take more than just hope for better in August.

[Barney]

It's very easy to overreact in situations like this, but there have been some excellent points raised on this thread. I would say my views are closest to Benjrider10 and Lovely Stuff, and I think the latter sums things up very well. We have been pretty dire to watch (I'm just glad that I've missed much of the latter part of the season, where it sounds like we've been pretty dire, and lost the ability to see out games and pick up points). Where do we go from here? I'd personally rather have a manager playing more attractive football, with a younger, more dynamic squad just missing out on a playoff place than another season the same as this, but there's always the risk that we might be worse off after a change. Andy is very much a safe pair of hands, his contacts and experience will be enough to get us challenging for a play-off place season on season, and we maybe need to ask whether that's just about where we should be at the moment, or if we have the infrastructure and financials in place to survive in the NLS.

If the board feel we need to take some more time to get the infrastructure in place to support us at the next step up rather than potentially overstretching ourselves, I can completely understand that position and I trust them to have a view of the bigger picture that I don't. Increased income streams take time, and in the case of the new facility come at a significant cost, but if this puts us on a better footing in the medium term, then it's the right thing to do (and by medium term, I mean the next 10 years or so). I do wonder whether promotion might be less a blessing and more a curse at present, and a season of struggles in the league above followed by relegation would be less preferable to a few more seasons competing at the right end of this league until we're absolutely ready. But on the flip side of that, we might as well have someone in the hot seat who plays better football and who everyone can get behind (I suspect that Andy's record stands up favourably against Brad's, but I know which team I'd rather watch play, and which team I could get more excited about).

Lots to think about, and some big decisions to make over the coming months - I'm just glad that I'm only a member, rather than being one of the people that needs to unpick all of this, and decide what's the right thing to do. I would encourage any members on here to find a friendly board member, and talk their concerns through with them - if the overall swell of support is asking for change, then the board are more likely to listen, but on the flip side, hearing the board's position and decision making rationale would probably benefit us all (myself included).

[The Crowing Cockerel]

Andy has had 6 years to project his vision and style of play on the side. I appreciate that it has us in/around the play-offs recently. However, he's not pulled up any trees in the cups of late, plus there is absolutely no way that he would be capable of keeping us in the National League South were he to ever get us promoted.

We need a manager willing/able to play attacking, attractive football. Someone able to attract younger/better players. Someone who can work wonders on a tight budget. I have no idea who this new manager might be - or even whether he/she/it actually exists! However, I'm all in favour of the club spinning the wheel in order to find out. 

[4wembleyfinals]

Pretty conclusive CC. What ever our individual views are the consensus seems to be that a decision regarding the playing management has to be addressed sooner than later. Kicking the " ball" down the street is not an option.

Edited April 17, 2023 by 4wembleyfinals

[The Crowing Cockerel]

Interesting to listen to Andy's interview. Despite saying that he's not throwing the players under the bus, he effectively lays the blame with them. He accepts that the squad wasn't good enough and also that instructions weren't followed on the pitch. Things began to go wrong in February and he wasn't able to turn it around. Judging by his words, he certainly expects to be in post next season.

Thoroughly depressing.

On the plus side, Cheshunt's stay in the National League looks likely to have been short-lived - and anyone thinking we should consider their manager may want to have a cursory look at the drama that unfolded in the final few minutes of their game against Ebbsfleet on Saturday!

I also note that Enfield FC are on course to win the Essex Senior League - fielding some Town old boys (incl Aaron Green & Junior Mubaiyi) with recent footage showing plenty of attractive wing play.

[4wembleyfinals]

23 hours ago, The Crowing Cockerel said:

I also note that Enfield FC are on course to win the Essex Senior League - fielding some Town old boys (incl Aaron Green & Junior Mubaiyi) with recent footage showing plenty of attractive wing play.

That's interesting CC.!!!!