Arbour park

[Curtis]

A couple of points worth considering:-

1. A Max Kilman transfer once again looks a possibility in the summer, which would probably provide all the funds Maidenhead need & more. But would they really put down a 3G pitch that they would have to rip up if they have any aspirations of promotion?

2. How much spare capacity is there going to be at Arbour Park when it is already likely to be utilised by the 1st team, under 23’s, Academy, U18, JPL teams from U12 to U16, & possibly all the Slough Town Junior teams (boys & girls) from U7 to U17?

[GlenSTFC]

It’s not a level playing field as Maidenhead have multi million pound owners who alongside with any grants they receive can quite easily spend the £2-3m upgrade required. We still have a fair way to match them but I’m confident we’re on the right path but it might just take a few years.

[Nathan]

5 hours ago, Curtis said:

But would they really put down a 3G pitch that they would have to rip up if they have any aspirations of promotion?

Judging by this (https://sgsa.org.uk/regulatory-support/advice-for-promoted-national-league-clubs/) that's not the only thing they'd have to do should they ever be promoted to the Football League, they'd also have to double their seating capacity within the first year, and nearly quadruple it within 3 years.

[Nathan]

On 01/04/2024 at 21:32, Reading Rebel said:

If that's correct you know more than me Nathan.

What are the requirements for Access, toilets, covered standing capacity and catering?

I'm sure clubs like Maidenhead and Wealdstone don't have anything better than us. 

To continue the discussion from the Truro City thread (as it's far more sensible to post this here):

I've now had a look at the guidebook provided by the FA (effective for the 2022/23 season, downloads in PDF format, with a separate amendment providing a few clarifications and corrections to detail). Information applies to existing grounds only.

Page 5 states that Step 1 (National League Premier) requires a Ground Grading of 1, Step 2 (National League North/South) Grading 2 (and so on), so that's looks fairly simple (unless I have misinterpreted!).

Page 7 deals with ground capacity, covered seating & standing etc. Grade 1 requires Ground Capacity of 4000 with a minimum 500 covered standing and 500 covered seats. It also requires a minimum of 8 turnstiles, 12 Press Seating and 250 Lux Floodlights.

Page 8 deals with toilet requirements, changing rooms & medical facilities. Step 1 requires "Four urinals & two WCs in two areas of the ground" for men and "Two WCs in two areas of the ground" for women (my emphases). Grade 2 is the same (for spectators) but without the "two areas of the ground" requirement. I'm not sure what this means; our toilets are both located inside the structure of the main stand (on the ground floor and through the bar), would this count as two areas of the ground? Page 40 goes into more detail of this, and states that toilets "may be of a temporary or mobile kind but must be connected to the mains supply (i.e. water and power) and main drainage or an acceptable alternative drainage system. Individual toilet units, often known as ‘portaloos’, are permissible on a temporary basis but may not be included in the minimum toilet requirements". If we were to be promoted, it looks to me like we may need to install more toilets and not simply erect a couple of portaloos like we have had for the segregated matches, as segregation will undoubted become much more common and Grade 1 has a "two areas of the ground" requirement. 

Page 11 states that to be given Grade 1, grounds must also have the ability/potential to be upgraded to Football League Standards, even if it doesn't meet the criteria as it is. According to the Sports Grounds Safety Authority, to be promoted to the Football League, grounds must have "a certified capacity of at least 4,000 (with the ability to be increased to 5,000) which shall include at least 500 seats (with the ability to be increased to 1,000)". Grounds must have 5000 capacity by the end of their first year, and 2000 seats by the end of their 3rd. (Can anybody honestly ever see Arbour Park, with it's limited room for expansion, with a 5000 capacity and 2000 seats? How much would we have to pay in upkeep should this ever happen? We'd surely have to charge/pay a lot more in rent).

Page 43 helpfully provides some pictures of toilets, urinals and hand-dryers (in case anyone doesn't know what they look like).

Page 44 goes into detail about the Refreshment Facilities (and some more top-quality photographs). It seems that a mobile unit is acceptable "in each area of the ground".

In conclusion:
As far as I can tell, Arbour Park only has a capacity of 3000 (many websites, including Wikipedia, Football Ground Guide and Slough Borough Council's own website, give our capacity as 2000; surely this is incorrect as this would not be enough for Grade 2). The Main Stand and the East Stand, do we have the minimum of 500 required for Grade 1? I think we have 2 turnstiles on each corner of the ground, so that's ok. I have no idea how powerful the Floodlights are, but we may need to look at upgrading them and/or installing some more permanent toilets.

[Reading Rebel]

8 minutes ago, Nathan said:

To continue the discussion from the Truro City thread (as it's far more sensible to post this here):

I've now had a look at the guidebook provided by the FA (effective for the 2022/23 season, downloads in PDF format, with a separate amendment providing a few clarifications and corrections to detail). Information applies to existing grounds only.

Page 5 states that Step 1 (National League Premier) requires a Ground Grading of 1, Step 2 (National League North/South) Grading 2 (and so on), so that's looks fairly simple (unless I have misinterpreted!).

Page 7 deals with ground capacity, covered seating & standing etc. Grade 1 requires Ground Capacity of 4000 with a minimum 500 covered standing and 500 covered seats. It also requires a minimum of 8 turnstiles, 12 Press Seating and 250 Lux Floodlights.

Page 8 deals with toilet requirements, changing rooms & medical facilities. Step 1 requires "Four urinals & two WCs in two areas of the ground" for men and "Two WCs in two areas of the ground" for women (my emphases). Grade 2 is the same (for spectators) but without the "two areas of the ground" requirement. I'm not sure what this means; our toilets are both located inside the structure of the main stand (on the ground floor and through the bar), would this count as two areas of the ground? Page 40 goes into more detail of this, and states that toilets "may be of a temporary or mobile kind but must be connected to the mains supply (i.e. water and power) and main drainage or an acceptable alternative drainage system. Individual toilet units, often known as ‘portaloos’, are permissible on a temporary basis but may not be included in the minimum toilet requirements". If we were to be promoted, it looks to me like we may need to install more toilets and not simply erect a couple of portaloos like we have had for the segregated matches, as segregation will undoubted become much more common and Grade 1 has a "two areas of the ground" requirement. 

Page 11 states that to be given Grade 1, grounds must also have the ability/potential to be upgraded to Football League Standards, even if it doesn't meet the criteria as it is. According to the Sports Grounds Safety Authority, to be promoted to the Football League, grounds must have "a certified capacity of at least 4,000 (with the ability to be increased to 5,000) which shall include at least 500 seats (with the ability to be increased to 1,000)". Grounds must have 5000 capacity by the end of their first year, and 2000 seats by the end of their 3rd. (Can anybody honestly ever see Arbour Park, with it's limited room for expansion, with a 5000 capacity and 2000 seats? How much would we have to pay in upkeep should this ever happen? We'd surely have to charge/pay a lot more in rent).

Page 43 helpfully provides some pictures of toilets, urinals and hand-dryers (in case anyone doesn't know what they look like).

Page 44 goes into detail about the Refreshment Facilities (and some more top-quality photographs). It seems that a mobile unit is acceptable "in each area of the ground".

In conclusion:
As far as I can tell, Arbour Park only has a capacity of 3000 (many websites, including Wikipedia, Football Ground Guide and Slough Borough Council's own website, give our capacity as 2000; surely this is incorrect as this would not be enough for Grade 2). The Main Stand and the East Stand, do we have the minimum of 500 required for Grade 1? I think we have 2 turnstiles on each corner of the ground, so that's ok. I have no idea how powerful the Floodlights are, but we may need to look at upgrading them and/or installing some more permanent toilets.

Our current covered seating is 500, 250 in each stand.

As far as I'm aware our official current capacity is 3,000 but until improvements down the sides are done we would never even attempt to hold that many due to current viewing capabilities.

Again as far as I'm aware this is one of the areas of improvements our owners are looking at doing.

[GarySTFC]

Capacity is 3452 with 542 seats (or very close to those figures)

[Reading Rebel]

1 hour ago, GarySTFC said:

Capacity is 3452 with 542 seats (or very close to those figures)

Have to say that's news to me.

When was the capacity increased to 3,452.

I always thought it was 250 seats in each stand.

[GlenSTFC]

50 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Have to say that's news to me.

When was the capacity increased to 3,452.

I always thought it was 250 seats in each stand.

Sounds about right to me. The main stand has more seats (c300) than the ‘Berkeley Community’ stand (c250). Both ends hold just under 2,000 leaving around 1,000 on the sides. So we’d only need another 500 spaces to be NL compliant in terms of capacity. Just hope any new additions aren’t more of the shallow metal terracing…

Edited April 7 by GlenSTFC

[Ian g f]

7 hours ago, GarySTFC said:

Capacity is 3452 with 542 seats (or very close to those figures)

Thought it was 2100 For the Grimsby game it wasn't 3452

[Sir Rebel1965]

9 minutes ago, Ian g f said:

Thought it was 2100 For the Grimsby game it wasn't 3452

From the Match Report on Nov 6 2023 v Grimsby:

"In what was a sell-out crowd of 2,205 at Arbour Park,"

[GarySTFC]

There’s a difference between the official ground capacity of the ground and what is a sensible occupancy level. As we saw with Grimsby, there was plenty of space to accommodate more people but they wouldn’t have been able to see a thing, hence why it was set to a more sensible number. 

[GlenSTFC]

6 hours ago, Sir Rebel1965 said:

From the Match Report on Nov 6 2023 v Grimsby:

"In what was a sell-out crowd of 2,205 at Arbour Park,"

But a sell out isn’t the same as a capacity crowd. The club would have set a manageable limit given their current resources. 3,500 capacity makes sense from how I divided it up previously.

[Sir Rebel1965]

1 hour ago, GlenSTFC said:

But a sell out isn’t the same as a capacity crowd. The club would have set a manageable limit given their current resources. 3,500 capacity makes sense from how I divided it up previously.

So where do I say that is the ground capacity Glen?

If you took a little bit of time to read my post it was in reply to Ian GF who asked about the the capacity for the Grimsby game which he suggested may have been 2100 and I quoted from the match report 2205 being the sold out attendance.

Neither figure was for the maximum ground capacity.

[GlenSTFC]

18 minutes ago, Sir Rebel1965 said:

So where do I say that is the ground capacity Glen?

If you took a little bit of time to read my post it was in reply to Ian GF who asked about the the capacity for the Grimsby game which he suggested may have been 2100 and I quoted from the match report 2205 being the sold out attendance.

Neither figure was for the maximum ground capacity.

You didn’t, I was simply stating a sell out isn’t the same as a capacity crowd.