Arbour park

[Curtis]

The Slough Express article says:-

‘The council’s budget proposals for 2024/25 also include plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with Slough Town Football Club for the Arbour Park stadium.

The council leader said this will see the club take on responsibility for yearly maintenance costs at the ground but should provide long-term security for the ambitious National League South team.’

If correct, all good & a big step in the right direction isn’t it?

[GlenSTFC]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:00, Curtis said:

The Slough Express article says:-

‘The council’s budget proposals for 2024/25 also include plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with Slough Town Football Club for the Arbour Park stadium.

The council leader said this will see the club take on responsibility for yearly maintenance costs at the ground but should provide long-term security for the ambitious National League South team.’

If correct, all good & a big step in the right direction isn’t it?

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Sounds like the council don’t want much to do with it and I hope it gives the club the freedom to make changes to the ground to make it feel more homely (namely the clubhouse and changing rooms!).

[Windsor Rebel]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:26, GlenSTFC said:

Sounds like the council don’t want much to do with it and I hope it gives the club the freedom to make changes to the ground to make it feel more homely (namely the clubhouse and changing rooms!).

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The council is skint, so need to unload their assets/reduce their outgoings

Edited December 21, 2023 by Windsor Rebel
type

[Reading Rebel]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:26, GlenSTFC said:

Sounds like the council don’t want much to do with it and I hope it gives the club the freedom to make changes to the ground to make it feel more homely (namely the clubhouse and changing rooms!).

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Clubhouse could do with more club stuff but never been in the changing rooms, what's the problem with them?

[Reading Rebel]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:00, Curtis said:

The Slough Express article says:-

‘The council’s budget proposals for 2024/25 also include plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with Slough Town Football Club for the Arbour Park stadium.

The council leader said this will see the club take on responsibility for yearly maintenance costs at the ground but should provide long-term security for the ambitious National League South team.’

If correct, all good & a big step in the right direction isn’t it?

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I suppose it depends what the yearly maintenance costs are.

The point about plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with STFC sounds like good news.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Reading Rebel

[GlenSTFC]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:40, Reading Rebel said:

Clubhouse could do with more club stuff but never been in the changing rooms, what's the problem with them?

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Just imagine a generic Council leisure centre changing room and you’ll be there!

[Sir Rebel1965]

Which company will take on the lease agreement - STFC (23) Ltd or A23 Football Group Ltd?

 

Why is it important who owns the Lease agreement?

Back in the 1990’s the club was owned by the Thornes and they owned Wexham Park.

The Thornes fell out of love with the Football side of things and Martyn Deaner came along and took over ownership of the Club/football side, whilst the Thornes retained ownership of the ground. The football club paid rent to Wexham Park (the Thornes) to play there.

After a while there was a falling out and allegedly the football club stopped paying rent and a debt of £70,000 built up.

The Thornes then kicked the club out and the club were homeless going to Windsor then Beaconsfield.

The Thornes remained the owners of Wexham park.

So, this is one example of what can happen when a club does not control the lease/ownership of their ground.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Sir Rebel1965

[Reading Rebel]

  On 21/12/2023 at 11:07, Sir Rebel1965 said:

Which company will take on the lease agreement - STFC (23) Ltd or A23 Football Group Ltd?

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It'll be STFC (23) Ltd which has 3 directors, Ashley Smith, Mike Lightfoot and Kay Lathey

A23 Football Group Ltd has only 1 Director Ashley Smith.

[DonnyNo6]

  On 20/12/2023 at 17:42, GlenSTFC said:

But could that mean they sell it on meaning our future might be at risk?

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I guess they could sell the ground but I'm not sure who would take it as I believe the actual land is owned by the Department of Education and I cannot see any way in which developers could have it due to all aspects of safeguarding with two education facilities either end.

[Bernie Gogan]

It would offset the extra costs if the club doesn't have to share the proceeds from food and drink and is able to set & retain fees for use of the ground, whether sporting or otherwise. In other words full leaseholder income from the facility.

 

[Reading Rebel]

  On 21/12/2023 at 12:40, Bernie Gogan said:

It would offset the extra costs if the club doesn't have to share the proceeds from food and drink and is able to set & retain fees for use of the ground, whether sporting or otherwise. In other words full leaseholder income from the facility.

 

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So the Council would only get the ground rent money that we pay?

That sounds a nice idea but surely the council would still want their share of income from the use of the facilities.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Reading Rebel

[Nathan]

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:00, Curtis said:

The Slough Express article says:-

‘The council’s budget proposals for 2024/25 also include plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with Slough Town Football Club for the Arbour Park stadium.

The council leader said this will see the club take on responsibility for yearly maintenance costs at the ground but should provide long-term security for the ambitious National League South team.’

If correct, all good & a big step in the right direction isn’t it?

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It depends on what the terms are. If they do put the rent up by £15k a year (only a proposal at this point, it's not guaranteed to happen) that will put a serious dent in our finances.

To put it into perspective, our FA Cup prize money this year (not including gate or TV money etc.) is £18,375, so most of it will be put aside for the increase in rent (and that's only for a year).

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:26, GlenSTFC said:

Sounds like the council don’t want much to do with it and I hope it gives the club the freedom to make changes to the ground to make it feel more homely (namely the clubhouse and changing rooms!).

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The club ground certainly should put it's own personal touch onto the stadium. I particularly dislike the upstairs bar; it's a generic, modern functions bar and the TV's are so high up on the wall I find them uncomfortable to watch (in the increasingly rare occasions they're on). However I do not see who will pay for things like this, or what money it will generate; surely the changing rooms aren't top of the list of priorities! The council are in a financial mess and aren't going to invest in something that doesn't make money for them (we're not exactly rolling in money ourselves).

  On 21/12/2023 at 10:45, Reading Rebel said:

I suppose it depends what the yearly maintenance costs are.

The point about plans to agree a lease of up to 25 years with STFC sounds like good news.

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The maintenance costs of a football stadium will be considerable; not being responsible for it is supposed to be a benefit of renting and not owning the stadium yourself (as the predicted costs should be factored into the rent money). And assuming this also means relaying the pitch (this wouldn't be a yearly maintenance cost so I'm not sure that we would be responsible, but £175k is the cheapest quote I've seen, from what I can see it's usually a lot more), surely the club can't afford this unless there's more money hanging around than we know about?

Agreeing to a 25-year lease at a time when the council is (as Windsor Rebel rightly says) skint, publicly saying that the ground is incurring a net loss, and are proposing "enhanced specialised management of the asset which requires improvement", may not result in the best deal for the club, so I'll treat these negotiations with a more cautious welcome.

[Curtis]

  On 21/12/2023 at 18:57, Nathan said:

It depends on what the terms are. If they do put the rent up by £15k a year (only a proposal at this point, it's not guaranteed to happen) that will put a serious dent in our finances.

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If my understanding is correct the current £15k rent is just for first team use.

If the increase is for the use of the full facility 24/7 & it was well managed that increase would be easily covered.

[GlenSTFC]

Would be useful for the club to fully explain this deal (or as much as possible). Obviously we’re all hoping it’s to the benefit of the club and gives us a lot more flexibility in what we can do with the stadium and make more money from it.

[Kaiser Gibbs Batman (KGB)]

  On 21/12/2023 at 11:07, Sir Rebel1965 said:

Which company will take on the lease agreement - STFC (23) Ltd or A23 Football Group Ltd?

 

Why is it important who owns the Lease agreement?

Back in the 1990’s the club was owned by the Thornes and they owned Wexham Park.

The Thornes fell out of love with the Football side of things and Martyn Deaner came along and took over ownership of the Club/football side, whilst the Thornes retained ownership of the ground. The football club paid rent to Wexham Park (the Thornes) to play there.

After a while there was a falling out and allegedly the football club stopped paying rent and a debt of £70,000 built up.

The Thornes then kicked the club out and the club were homeless going to Windsor then Beaconsfield.

The Thornes remained the owners of Wexham park.

So, this is one example of what can happen when a club does not control the lease/ownership of their ground.

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It was my understanding that Martyn Deaner effectively chose to leave Wexham Park in 2003 in order to assist his plans to acquire (with hoped-for assistance from Slough Council) and develop another site for senior football within the town, thereby hoping to avoid the kind of planning obstacles that had bedevilled Alan Thorne's efforts to improve Wexham Park to Football League standard. The problem being that, for as long as the club remained at Wexham Park, Slough Council saw no particular imperative to assist with its relocation elsewhere.  Others can assess the success or otherwise of that strategy.  

[DonnyNo6]

  On 22/12/2023 at 09:08, Kaiser Gibbs Batman (KGB) said:

It was my understanding that Martyn Deaner effectively chose to leave Wexham Park in 2003 in order to assist his plans to acquire (with hoped-for assistance from Slough Council) and develop another site for senior football within the town, thereby hoping to avoid the kind of planning obstacles that had bedevilled Alan Thorne's efforts to improve Wexham Park to Football League standard. The problem being that, for as long as the club remained at Wexham Park, Slough Council saw no particular imperative to assist with its relocation elsewhere.  Others can assess the success or otherwise of that strategy.  

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Does anyone know who actually owns Wexham Park now and does that include just the old stadium and/or the land/driving range etc.?

I'm assuming there is some sort of covenant on land stopping it from being developed?

[Sir Rebel1965]

  On 22/12/2023 at 09:08, Kaiser Gibbs Batman (KGB) said:

It was my understanding that Martyn Deaner effectively chose to leave Wexham Park in 2003 in order to assist his plans to acquire (with hoped-for assistance from Slough Council) and develop another site for senior football within the town, thereby hoping to avoid the kind of planning obstacles that had bedevilled Alan Thorne's efforts to improve Wexham Park to Football League standard. The problem being that, for as long as the club remained at Wexham Park, Slough Council saw no particular imperative to assist with its relocation elsewhere.  Others can assess the success or otherwise of that strategy.  

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Yes, Mr Deaner's plans for the hotel with a football pitch on top, at the site of the bus station!

There were some strange things going on at that time which then needed the council convincing that the club was serious, and thanks to Steve Easterbrook lead to Arbour Park.

As for Wexham Park, it is extremely frustrating that a site for a football ground now sits wasted.

[Reading Rebel]

  On 22/12/2023 at 10:40, DonnyNo6 said:

Does anyone know who actually owns Wexham Park now and does that include just the old stadium and/or the land/driving range etc.?

I'm assuming there is some sort of covenant on land stopping it from being developed?

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There are people far more knowledgeble than me but as far as I know it's still owned by Alan Thorne's Son (Byron I think) and includes the whole lot, stadium, driving range etc..

Again as far as I'm aware there is something to do with a covenant that restricts the usage of the land.

[DonnyNo6]

  On 22/12/2023 at 10:59, Sir Rebel1965 said:

Yes, Mr Deaner's plans for the hotel with a football pitch on top, at the site of the bus station!

There were some strange things going on at that time which then needed the council convincing that the club was serious, and thanks to Steve Easterbrook lead to Arbour Park.

As for Wexham Park, it is extremely frustrating that a site for a football ground now sits wasted.

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Indeed, I went past it the other day and can never help but to glance in, looked like some event was on in the clubhouse.

[Irishadrian]

The overiding fact is that no one can sign off on anything apart from the government appointed commisioners the council is still in "special needs" so I hope our negotiaters are aware of this.