Bath City at Home - 28th February 2023

[3spirit]

1 hour ago, Reading Rebel said:

Of course you could always argue that point of view, you could even quote 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' but in this case I don't think even that applies.

As I said by our own admission after Saturday's heroics players were out on their feet so using the squad and giving much needed game time to some players imo just seemed the thing to do.

Stand out players on the night were Temi Eweka and Matt Lench, which will come as no surprise to Bonjour 😏, a couple of others didn't do a lot wrong but in general most had an off night. 

I think the closest we came to scoring in the second half was a good effort from Ogo apart from that not much else.

 

 

 

Cheers for the reply Reading Rebel. By what I've read I'm glad I wasn't there !

I do think we need to make a few allowances for Scott, as this football manager thing is all new to him.

Also it's easy to see that instinct would take over for his handball but if I was at the game I expect it would have pissed me off to then go and lose 0-3.

Will Scott miss the Worthing game because of his sending off, or does it kick in later? In some ways I think it may be a good time for Scott to not to play. Better that he misses games soon-ish than at the end of the month and into April. Also gives someone else a chance, and I would bring Lee Togwell back in to the starting line up.  Also gives a small window to tinker with the line up. Mind you, going up against Worthing next is far from easy.

Looking at the next 6 games in March I have likely/best case scenario of 2 wins,2 draws and 2 losses but those draws are very tight calls, and one of them is against Worthing ! 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by 3spirit

[Reading Rebel]

Just listened to the Bath managers post match interview and I really must make an appointment at Specsavers because he saw a completely different game to me.

If you wasn't at the game and just listened to his interview you'd think Bath on the night played a blinder and were a very good side.

 

[3spirit]

4 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Just listened to the Bath managers post match interview and I really must make an appointment at Specsavers because he saw a completely different game to me.

If you wasn't at the game and just listened to his interview you'd think Bath on the night played a blinder and were a very good side.

 

He did that the last time we played them at home. As he funds their club, he like Spencer Day at Farnborough sure do put on the spin !  😉

[Irishadrian]

26 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Just listened to the Bath managers post match interview and I really must make an appointment at Specsavers because he saw a completely different game to me.

If you wasn't at the game and just listened to his interview you'd think Bath on the night played a blinder and were a very good side.

 

Surely its him not you that needs that appointment!

[Irishadrian]

2 hours ago, Reading Rebel said:

What to make of the game.

The first 45 minutes was probably the worst half of football that I've seen in a long time.

Both sides were guilty of not being able to pass the ball over a few yards to a fellow team mate.

We should have taken the lead when the best chance of the half fell to Matt Burgess who only had the keeper to beat but shot wide with the keeper possibly getting a hand to the ball.

Other than that it was a half to forget.

Second half was marginally better but ended as a real contest when we lost possession of the ball in our own half, not sure if it was a foul or we just lost the ball, which resulted in a handball on the goal line and Bath scoring from the penalty.

We then pushed forward in search of the equalizer resulting in being caught on the break and but for some heroic defending the score could have been a lot worse.

The scoreline sounds like a thumping but on the night Bath were no great shakes and imo were there for the taking but unfortunately we were just as poor with the sending off the deciding factor on the night.

My honest opinion is that I think we fell into the trap of playing virtually the same 11 players that put in such a sterling performance against St Albans on Saturday.

By our own admission that game took a lot out of the players and with only a short time to recover I was fully expecting us to utilize the squad and make at least 3 or 4 changes in the knowledge that we have an even tougher game coming up against Worthing on Saturday. 

 

RR  Worthing managed a 1-1 draw at Chippenham last night  and have lost their previous two away games so we must respect them of course but nothinh else!

[Reading Rebel]

On 01/03/2023 at 11:43, 3spirit said:

Cheers for the reply Reading Rebel. By what I've read I'm glad I wasn't there !

I do think we need to make a few allowances for Scott, as this football manager thing is all new to him.

Also it's easy to see that instinct would take over for his handball but if I was at the game I expect it would have pissed me off to then go and lose 0-3.

Will Scott miss the Worthing game because of his sending off, or does it kick in later? In some ways I think it may be a good time for Scott to not to play. Better that he misses games soon-ish than at the end of the month and into April. Also gives someone else a chance, and I would bring Lee Togwell back in to the starting line up.  Also gives a small window to tinker with the line up. Mind you, going up against Worthing next is far from easy.

Looking at the next 6 games in March I have likely case scenario of 2 wins,2 draws and 2 losses but those draws are very tight calls, and one of them is against Worthing ! 

 

It was not in any way meant to be a criticism of Scott just a personal opinion.

Even the most experienced managers don't get everything right. They have to make decisions based upon things that supporters are not privy to and sometimes just based upon something as simple as a gut feeling.

Pretty sure the ban will come in 1 week later so Scott will be available for Saturday but not the Tuesday game against Concord.

2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses against what teams? 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Reading Rebel

[SloughFlyer]

I think there were 3 players that can take any kind of credit from last night. Temi, Shane Bush and Ogo Obi. Other than that I thought the whole side were poor. 

Scott couldn't stop himself from handballing it. Ball came so fast it was one of those things. 100% certain if he had any thinking time, he wouldn't have put us in the position he did.

As for the rest of the team, I've never understood why, under Neil and Jon and now under Scott we make 2 changes of position to fill 1 gap. It always seems to be that Josh gets moved to LB, and as much a I like Josh as a player, he is nowhere near as good at LB as RB. Whenwe move him, Joe Dandy then becomes a RB (is really a CB IMO) so we have put 2 players in their wrong positions to cover for 1 gap (LB). The LB position is also an issue for us as a team when we play a 4 back formation as Gabe George isn't IMO good enough just yet to play out and out LB or LW, thats why he has been so good at LWB as its the perfect position for him.

The midfield really didn't work either. The diamond we played against St Albans worked brilliantly to press the game and with their wide formation gave us the advantage. Bath clearly came to match us up and high press and our midfield couldn't create anything with the little time they had. All 4 starters were poor as a unit.

Elliott Benyon - I've been nice and quiet (to a point) on him this season as he was injured for ages and then the transition between Neil and Jon to Scott happened so I wanted to see if it was Neil and Jon that couldn't get a tune out of him or he was just as bad as he has been. I have no idea why he is being picked over players such as Walsh or Kayani (possible slightly different positions but both I'm sure are more than capable to play down the middle). At least these 2 offer pace. He doesn't win a header and those he does don't go in the goal (see Welling and St Albans as good examples of missing from 5 yards out with headers), he drops so deep that poor Ogo is on his own with 2,3,4 defenders to beat (no wonder he is not having many opportunities) and I'm sure that when opposition teams see he is in the team see him on the team sheet and look at his output, they know they are playing against, for all intents and purposes, 1 up front.

Credit to Bath, they came with a plan and executed it perfectly and deserved their win. I just hope that we are able to pick ourselves up and perhaps make use of Scotts now playing ban (not sure if he is allowed in the dugout when serving a suspension) to give him some time to watch the team and hopefully develop it. 

4 hours ago, Reading Rebel said:

It was not in any way meant to be a criticism of Scott just a personal opinion.

Even the best experienced managers don't get everything right according to supporters. They have to make decisions based upon things that supporters are not privy to and sometimes just based upon something as simple as a gut feeling.

Pretty sure the ban will come in 1 week later so Scott will be available for Saturday but not the Tuesday game against Concord.

2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses against what teams? 

 

 

I would assume (and I know he'll correct me if I'm wrong) 3spirit thinks wins v Concord and Hungerford, draws v Worthing and Farnborough and losses v Ebbsfleet and Eastbourne. Possible he has Eastbourne and Farnborough reversed.

[3spirit]

16 hours ago, SloughFlyer said:

I think there were 3 players that can take any kind of credit from last night. Temi, Shane Bush and Ogo Obi. Other than that I thought the whole side were poor. 

Scott couldn't stop himself from handballing it. Ball came so fast it was one of those things. 100% certain if he had any thinking time, he wouldn't have put us in the position he did.

As for the rest of the team, I've never understood why, under Neil and Jon and now under Scott we make 2 changes of position to fill 1 gap. It always seems to be that Josh gets moved to LB, and as much a I like Josh as a player, he is nowhere near as good at LB as RB. Whenwe move him, Joe Dandy then becomes a RB (is really a CB IMO) so we have put 2 players in their wrong positions to cover for 1 gap (LB). The LB position is also an issue for us as a team when we play a 4 back formation as Gabe George isn't IMO good enough just yet to play out and out LB or LW, thats why he has been so good at LWB as its the perfect position for him.

The midfield really didn't work either. The diamond we played against St Albans worked brilliantly to press the game and with their wide formation gave us the advantage. Bath clearly came to match us up and high press and our midfield couldn't create anything with the little time they had. All 4 starters were poor as a unit.

Elliott Benyon - I've been nice and quiet (to a point) on him this season as he was injured for ages and then the transition between Neil and Jon to Scott happened so I wanted to see if it was Neil and Jon that couldn't get a tune out of him or he was just as bad as he has been. I have no idea why he is being picked over players such as Walsh or Kayani (possible slightly different positions but both I'm sure are more than capable to play down the middle). At least these 2 offer pace. He doesn't win a header and those he does don't go in the goal (see Welling and St Albans as good examples of missing from 5 yards out with headers), he drops so deep that poor Ogo is on his own with 2,3,4 defenders to beat (no wonder he is not having many opportunities) and I'm sure that when opposition teams see he is in the team see him on the team sheet and look at his output, they know they are playing against, for all intents and purposes, 1 up front.

Credit to Bath, they came with a plan and executed it perfectly and deserved their win. I just hope that we are able to pick ourselves up and perhaps make use of Scotts now playing ban (not sure if he is allowed in the dugout when serving a suspension) to give him some time to watch the team and hopefully develop it. 

I would assume (and I know he'll correct me if I'm wrong) 3spirit thinks wins v Concord and Hungerford, draws v Worthing and Farnborough and losses v Ebbsfleet and Eastbourne. Possible he has Eastbourne and Farnborough reversed.

Slough Flyer, you read my mind, I do have possible wins against Concord and Hungerford, draws against Farnborough and Worthing and losses against Ebbsfleet and Eastbourne. However,you never know in football as the St Albans and Bath City games proved.

You make a fair point on Elliot Benyon. I don't however think he is as bad as you say. I was disappointed when Bakes and Unders signed him, given that they made him out to be a brilliant forward signing for Slough, when I knew he wasn't going to be. He was a good cheap option for a hard up club.

Due respect to him but his best striking days are behind him. That said modern football is a squad game and having a player of his experience in our squad I believe is beneficial to what our manager is trying to do. Elliot has had good games for Slough this season, and so I feel you can still get ' a good tune out of an old fiddle', and that he is worth a place in the squad [this season]. He also offers a different type of game to our team than what Francis and Ogo bring. When a team loses 0-3 at home there's bound to be questions on players picked for the first eleven, and why they played the way they did. I wasn't at the Bath home game so can't comment on his performance there.

The problem I find with Elliot is that he can play well for a good part of a game but sort of goes 'missing in action' and drifts out of a game. I feel he doesn't really want the responsibility of being an out and out striker anymore so has a habit of drifting out of the oppositions penalty area and looking to pick the ball up in a higher up midfield area and to then make out he is trying to link play and make a telling pass. Is Scott asking him to do this,I don't know? At times it looks like Elliot is hiding from the goalmouth action. Something Slough can ill afford given where our team is in the league table. We are crying out for a goal poacher. Elliot and Ogo are both failing on this talent. Hence why our team is so desperate for Francis to return but will he be able to pick up where he left off?

[Reading Rebel]

22 hours ago, 3spirit said:

Slough Flyer, you read my mind, I do have possible wins against Concord and Hungerford, draws against Farnborough and Worthing and losses against Ebbsfleet and Eastbourne. However,you never know in football as the St Albans and Bath City games proved.

You make a fair point on Elliot Benyon. I don't however think he is as bad as you say. I was disappointed when Bakes and Unders signed him, given that they made him out to be a brilliant forward signing for Slough, when I knew he wasn't going to be. He was a good cheap option for a hard up club.

Due respect to him but his best striking days are behind him. That said modern football is a squad game and having a player of his experience in our squad I believe is beneficial to what our manager is trying to do. Elliot has had good games for Slough this season, and so I feel you can still get ' a good tune out of an old fiddle', and that he is worth a place in the squad [this season]. He also offers a different type of game to our team than what Francis and Ogo bring. When a team loses 0-3 at home there's bound to be questions on players picked for the first eleven, and why they played the way they did. I wasn't at the Bath home game so can't comment on his performance there.

The problem I find with Elliot is that he can play well for a good part of a game but sort of goes 'missing in action' and drifts out of a game. I feel he doesn't really want the responsibility of being an out and out striker anymore so has a habit of drifting out of the oppositions penalty area and looking to pick the ball up in a higher up midfield area and to then make out he is trying to link play and make a telling pass. Is Scott asking him to do this,I don't know? At times it looks like Elliot is hiding from the goalmouth action. Something Slough can ill afford given where our team is in the league table. We are crying out for a goal poacher. Elliot and Ogo are both failing on this talent. Hence why our team is so desperate for Francis to return but will he be able to pick up where he left off?

Not sure Elliott was a cheap option.

We signed him from Oxford City who I'm pretty certain pay more than we do.

Obviously Elliott's best days are behind him but he is still a useful player if a team plays to his strengths by creating loads of chances around the box rather than expect him to do a lot of donkey work. At his age and not being quick I think he is more of a goal poacher/fox in the box rather than a workhorse.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Reading Rebel

[Curtis]

This season:-

Elliot Benyon - 25 appearances - 3 goals

Josh Jackman - 32 appearances - 4 goals

Johnny Goddard - 32 appearances - 5 goals

 

Are stats a reliable source when it comes to strikers?
Personally I would be expecting an experienced striker to be scoring at least 1 in every 3 matches.

[GlenSTFC]

2 minutes ago, Curtis said:

This season:-

Elliot Benyon - 25 appearances - 3 goals

Josh Jackman - 32 appearances - 4 goals

Johnny Goddard - 32 appearances - 5 goals

 

Are stats a reliable source when it comes to strikers?
Personally I would be expecting an experienced striker to be scoring at least 1 in every 3 matches.

I’d agree with 1 in 3 but that striker has to receive the service! Have to admit I’m not sold on Benyon either but SD obviously sees something in him.

[3spirit]

1 hour ago, Reading Rebel said:

Not sure Elliott was a cheap option.

We signed him from Oxford City who very likely pay more than we do.

Obviously Elliott's best days are behind him but he is still a useful player if a team plays to his strengths by creating loads of chances around the box rather than expect him to do a lot of donkey work. At his age and being not quick I think he is more of a goal poacher/fox in the box rather than a workhorse.

 

If he is a goal poacher/fox in the box, why isn't he banging them in for Slough? Is it really down to service?  Remember he only scored 2 league goals for Oxford City last season. I take your point about workhorses, though. It's gotten mad that every football team has to play a high press and have workhorses all over the pitch.  

Scott, Lee and Yella need time to find out what they can get out of each individual player. Elliot is probably mates with Scott, so this might be clouding Scott's judgement on him.They played together in the same Oxford City team and maybe have for someone else ie Wealdstone[not sure on this].

I think Elliot is no mug player but currently we need more out of him, if Slough are to stay in this division but I'm not just saying him, as there are others that need to step up to the plate as well.

Trouble is we have strikers that for whatever reason are not scoring goals, and we've only got 12 league games to address the issue. If our team doesn't score goals, our team will get relegated.

Perhaps we could do a swap with Beaconsfield now Bakes and Unders are there. They can have Elliot Benyon and we could have Elliot Buchanan !

Edited March 2, 2023 by 3spirit

[Reading Rebel]

1 hour ago, GlenSTFC said:

I’d agree with 1 in 3 but that striker has to receive the service! Have to admit I’m not sold on Benyon either but SD obviously sees something in him.

And if they don't receive the service they have to be capable of creating something out of nothing with pace or skill.

[Reading Rebel]

1 hour ago, 3spirit said:

If he is a goal poacher/fox in the box, why isn't he banging them in for Slough? Is it really down to service?  Remember he only scored 2 league goals for Oxford City last season. I take your point about workhorses, though. It's gotten mad that every football team has to play a high press and have workhorses all over the pitch.  

Scott, Lee and Yella need time to find out what they can get out of each individual player. Elliot is probably mates with Scott, so this might be clouding Scott's judgement on him.They played together in the same Oxford City team and maybe have for someone else ie Wealdstone[not sure on this].

I think Elliot is no mug player but currently we need more out of him, if Slough are to stay in this division but I'm not just saying him, as there are others that need to step up to the plate as well.

Trouble is we have strikers that for whatever reason are not scoring goals, and we've only got 12 league games to address the issue. If our team doesn't score goals, our team will get relegated.

Perhaps we could do a swap with Beaconsfield now Bakes and Unders are there. They can have Elliot Benyon and we could have Elliot Buchanan !

In reality how many goal scoring opportunities do we create other than at set pieces? for example one on ones with the opposition keeper?

I think under Scott we are creating more than we did under our previous managers mainly because we are playing a more attacking style with two up top.

There's no doubt losing Francis Amartey has blunted our attacking threat so other players like Ogo Obi and Elliott Benyon have to step up to the plate otherwise the dreaded R word will become a reality.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Reading Rebel

[GlenSTFC]

8 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

In reality how many goal scoring opportunities do we create other than at set pieces? for example one on ones with the opposition keeper?

I think under Scott we are creating more than we did under our previous managers mainly because we are playing a more attacking style with two up top.

There's no doubt losing Francis Amartey has blunted our attacking threat so other players like Ogo Obi and Elliott Benyon have to step up to the plate otherwise the dreaded R word will become a reality.

 

 

 

Ogo has pace and can strike a decent shot as shown on Tuesday night, so why can’t he do this more often? Very frustrating!!! I know he’s trying… but surely if you were him you’d be thinking I’ve got to really start scoring or upping my game big time if I want to be here next season?

[Reading Rebel]

20 hours ago, SloughFlyer said:

I think there were 3 players that can take any kind of credit from last night. Temi, Shane Bush and Ogo Obi. Other than that I thought the whole side were poor. 

Scott couldn't stop himself from handballing it. Ball came so fast it was one of those things. 100% certain if he had any thinking time, he wouldn't have put us in the position he did.

As for the rest of the team, I've never understood why, under Neil and Jon and now under Scott we make 2 changes of position to fill 1 gap. It always seems to be that Josh gets moved to LB, and as much a I like Josh as a player, he is nowhere near as good at LB as RB. Whenwe move him, Joe Dandy then becomes a RB (is really a CB IMO) so we have put 2 players in their wrong positions to cover for 1 gap (LB). The LB position is also an issue for us as a team when we play a 4 back formation as Gabe George isn't IMO good enough just yet to play out and out LB or LW, thats why he has been so good at LWB as its the perfect position for him.

The midfield really didn't work either. The diamond we played against St Albans worked brilliantly to press the game and with their wide formation gave us the advantage. Bath clearly came to match us up and high press and our midfield couldn't create anything with the little time they had. All 4 starters were poor as a unit.

Elliott Benyon - I've been nice and quiet (to a point) on him this season as he was injured for ages and then the transition between Neil and Jon to Scott happened so I wanted to see if it was Neil and Jon that couldn't get a tune out of him or he was just as bad as he has been. I have no idea why he is being picked over players such as Walsh or Kayani (possible slightly different positions but both I'm sure are more than capable to play down the middle). At least these 2 offer pace. He doesn't win a header and those he does don't go in the goal (see Welling and St Albans as good examples of missing from 5 yards out with headers), he drops so deep that poor Ogo is on his own with 2,3,4 defenders to beat (no wonder he is not having many opportunities) and I'm sure that when opposition teams see he is in the team see him on the team sheet and look at his output, they know they are playing against, for all intents and purposes, 1 up front.

Credit to Bath, they came with a plan and executed it perfectly and deserved their win. I just hope that we are able to pick ourselves up and perhaps make use of Scotts now playing ban (not sure if he is allowed in the dugout when serving a suspension) to give him some time to watch the team and hopefully develop it. 

I would assume (and I know he'll correct me if I'm wrong) 3spirit thinks wins v Concord and Hungerford, draws v Worthing and Farnborough and losses v Ebbsfleet and Eastbourne. Possible he has Eastbourne and Farnborough reversed.

Playing against teams going either for the title or play-offs and a couple of real bogey teams I'd take the 8 points now.

 

[Reading Rebel]

16 minutes ago, GlenSTFC said:

Ogo has pace and can strike a decent shot as shown on Tuesday night, so why can’t he do this more often? Very frustrating!!! I know he’s trying… but surely if you were him you’d be thinking I’ve got to really start scoring or upping my game big time if I want to be here next season?

He obviously is trying his hardest but he's been a bit of a lone warrior since Francis got injured and I don't think it's his game to be a loan striker against some tough physical defenders. 

[GlenSTFC]

7 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

He obviously is trying his hardest but he's been a bit of a lone warrior since Francis got injured and I don't think it's his game to be a loan striker against some tough physical defenders. 

Why not? Ogo looks pretty solid so there shouldn’t be many defenders able to knock him around. Maybe he’s missing Francis as a partner plus lacking some confidence but if he has the pace and can hit a ball then he has to be doing as often as the opportunity arises. We can’t lay all our hopes on Francis hitting the ground running as that’s unfair and unrealistic. It seems we’re not able to bring in another striker so the 2 we have really need to up their performances plus obviously every other player as it shouldn’t be just their responsibility.

[Reading Rebel]

2 hours ago, GlenSTFC said:

Why not? Ogo looks pretty solid so there shouldn’t be many defenders able to knock him around. Maybe he’s missing Francis as a partner plus lacking some confidence but if he has the pace and can hit a ball then he has to be doing as often as the opportunity arises. We can’t lay all our hopes on Francis hitting the ground running as that’s unfair and unrealistic. It seems we’re not able to bring in another striker so the 2 we have really need to up their performances plus obviously every other player as it shouldn’t be just their responsibility.

Based on what I've seen so far just don't think he's a physical player.

[Scott Davies]

Just to clarify, I’ve never played with Elliot before. I knew him from playing against him but that’s as far as it goes. So no clouded judgement. 
 

Elliot is such an intelligent footballer if and when we play to his strengths which we’ve been trying to do. What I mean by that is playing into his feet and getting players closer to him to be able to bring them into play.

He’s also extremely good off the ball which some people might not recognise. St Albans last week his work rate was incredible. The amount of times he secures the ball, wins free kicks in good areas is something that may go amiss.

He would openly admit that he would have expected to score more goals but since I’ve taken over he’s been worth his weight in gold on and off the pitch.

Tonbridge away was the beginning of the unbeaten run we went on, with Elliot coming on at half time and securing the ball which allowed us to get higher up the pitch. Francis and Ogo are two willing runners and will start games together before the end of the season but for now that’s not doable right now.

Its all well and good looking at players on what they can do on the ball but you spend on average 88 minutes and 30 seconds without it, so what do you bring to the team in that time which is almost just as important.