Taking over a football club

[Richard Kendall]

How often in the press do you hear a club is failing, poor results, stadium run down (even if large) worst still massive debts, very few assets and desperately looking for a takeover. There’s been a few and often after a takeover the fans realise it’s not all good news and they hate the backers: investors walk away realising it’s a money pit, some are short term egomaniacs and the club does not progress some just look to develop some of the land or take money out. However, in fairness, some are successful or have a dedicated backer who is 100% invested in the club and should be applauded.

Slough is not like this, no debts, we rent the stadium and run to a budget forecast and overachieve. It’s tough competing against well funded clubs. Promised investment that did not materialise caused an issue, simple as that, not helped by poor attendances even when performing well.
 

I am not privy to discussions, but the stadium is not Slough Towns to sell and therefore the Clubs future, with minimal assets and a council owned stadium is not a simple fix. This means that the future plan (subject to agreeing one) has many possible variations.
 

We hope the board will find the best solution for all parties. If fans were to paint their perfect outcome please note that what you/we/I want may not be on offer. We do want a stable future and one where we feel competitive at a decent level. 

 

[Reading Rebel]

1 hour ago, Richard Kendall said:

How often in the press do you hear a club is failing, poor results, stadium run down (even if large) worst still massive debts, very few assets and desperately looking for a takeover. There’s been a few and often after a takeover the fans realise it’s not all good news and they hate the backers: investors walk away realising it’s a money pit, some are short term egomaniacs and the club does not progress some just look to develop some of the land or take money out. However, in fairness, some are successful or have a dedicated backer who is 100% invested in the club and should be applauded.

Slough is not like this, no debts, we rent the stadium and run to a budget forecast and overachieve. It’s tough competing against well funded clubs. Promised investment that did not materialise caused an issue, simple as that, not helped by poor attendances even when performing well.
 

I am not privy to discussions, but the stadium is not Slough Towns to sell and therefore the Clubs future, with minimal assets and a council owned stadium is not a simple fix. This means that the future plan (subject to agreeing one) has many possible variations.
 

We hope the board will find the best solution for all parties. If fans were to paint their perfect outcome please note that what you/we/I want may not be on offer. We do want a stable future and one where we feel competitive at a decent level. 

 

Just on the point about the 'promised investment' that didn't materialize.

Was this investment promised pre season or after the season started? 

We heard pre season that the budget was going to be cut and then we sign players like Johnny Goddard, George Wells, Elliott Benyon and retained Aaron Kuhl which all came as a surprise to most supporters.

All of these players wouldn't have come cheap.

Surely you don't sign expensive players on a promise with no guarantee that it will ever happen.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Reading Rebel

[Richard Kendall]

2 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Just on the point about the 'promised investment' that didn't materialize.

Was this investment promised pre season or after the season started? 

We heard pre season that the budget was going to be cut and then we sign players like Johnny Goddard, George Wells, Elliott Benyon and retained Aaron Kuhl which came as a surprise to most supporters.

All of these players wouldn't have come cheap.

Surely you don't sign expensive players on a promise but with no guarantee that it will ever happen.

 

 

 

I would say that the potential investment was quite early on based on rumours circulating, albeit rightly nothing was officially communicated as you need to see the investment first. 
 

digressing slightly, a budget is prepared pre season and a lot will depend on forecasts, estimates and then what actually happens. Slough are sensible,  do not forecast for a TV 3rd round fa cup home tie and over commit, but would have expected more season tickets sold, which are well priced, and more supporters through the door each week who also spend money in the stadium.  

[Reading Rebel]

37 minutes ago, Richard Kendall said:

I would say that the potential investment was quite early on based on rumours circulating, albeit rightly nothing was officially communicated as you need to see the investment first. 
 

digressing slightly, a budget is prepared pre season and a lot will depend on forecasts, estimates and then what actually happens. Slough are sensible,  do not forecast for a TV 3rd round fa cup home tie and over commit, but would have expected more season tickets sold, which are well priced, and more supporters through the door each week who also spend money in the stadium.  

So quite early on meaning pre season? and if so very likely, along with estimated attendances, would have been taken into account when setting the budget.

A real double whammy for the club.

 

 

 

[Irishadrian]

Hampton and Richmond Borough have today announced a deal has been done and they have new owners.

[DonnyNo6]

32 minutes ago, Irishadrian said:

Hampton and Richmond Borough have today announced a deal has been done and they have new owners.

The new owners better not mess with their burgers, they are arguably the best in the league. 😂

[3spirit]

3 hours ago, Richard Kendall said:

How often in the press do you hear a club is failing, poor results, stadium run down (even if large) worst still massive debts, very few assets and desperately looking for a takeover. There’s been a few and often after a takeover the fans realise it’s not all good news and they hate the backers: investors walk away realising it’s a money pit, some are short term egomaniacs and the club does not progress some just look to develop some of the land or take money out. However, in fairness, some are successful or have a dedicated backer who is 100% invested in the club and should be applauded.

Slough is not like this, no debts, we rent the stadium and run to a budget forecast and overachieve. It’s tough competing against well funded clubs. Promised investment that did not materialise caused an issue, simple as that, not helped by poor attendances even when performing well.
 

I am not privy to discussions, but the stadium is not Slough Towns to sell and therefore the Clubs future, with minimal assets and a council owned stadium is not a simple fix. This means that the future plan (subject to agreeing one) has many possible variations.
 

We hope the board will find the best solution for all parties. If fans were to paint their perfect outcome please note that what you/we/I want may not be on offer. We do want a stable future and one where we feel competitive at a decent level. 

 

You make some very good points, Richard. The trouble with most humans is they always want more, and prefer to moan and criticise the people running the club as though they know all the answers.  I've been a Slough fan for over 40 years, and followed our club through both groundshares at Windsor and Beaconsfield, and the injustices that went with it.  To me Slough Town FC don't have a huge problem. Fans need to lower their expectations.  I'm grateful we've still got a club, and it is better still - being back in our home town! If we can find investment to take the club up the divisions then great but it's certainly not the be all end all.

Steve Easterbrook was no fool, he got out of the club at the right time because he could see that owning a football club is like a bottomless pit and the higher you go up the divisions the more money it will cost you. Not just for him[the chairman] but also us, the supporters, as the higher you go up the more money it costs to get into the ground and prices rise accordingly.

Fans need to be realistic. Without bigger crowds coming through the turnstiles ,Slough are a mid-table National South team at best.

I didn't want to see Bakes and Unders leave but knew they would, as they have ambitions to manage in the National Premier and beyond. Unless Slough find investment/big sponsorship Slough as a club aren't ready for promotion but is that so bad?

To be honest I had got a bit bored of watching Ben Harris and co, playing a certain brand of football to nullify the opposition and stay mid table,and our club hampering our joint managers with next to no money for signings.

Since Scott Davies has taken over we may be in a relegation dogfight  but least it's exciting to see different players coming in and that we are taking chances on lower non-league players. This is what a non-league football club should be about ,a community club living within it's means with non league players enjoying their football again and not playing for our club for big bucks [if the club can't afford it].

We have a fantastic stadium with no debt. Who's the fools moaning about that?

Why chase this dream of professionalism, to go bust further down the line?

Some people are never satisfied.

[Reading Rebel]

36 minutes ago, 3spirit said:

You make some very good points, Richard. The trouble with most humans is they always want more, and prefer to moan and criticise the people running the club as though they know all the answers.  I've been a Slough fan for over 40 years, and followed our club through both groundshares at Windsor and Beaconsfield, and the injustices that went with it.  To me Slough Town FC don't have a huge problem. Fans need to lower their expectations.  I'm grateful we've still got a club, and it is better still - being back in our home town! If we can find investment to take the club up the divisions then great but it's certainly not the be all end all.

Steve Easterbrook was no fool, he got out of the club at the right time because he could see that owning a football club is like a bottomless pit and the higher you go up the divisions the more money it will cost you. Not just for him[the chairman] but also us, the supporters, as the higher you go up the more money it costs to get into the ground and prices rise accordingly.

Fans need to be realistic. Without bigger crowds coming through the turnstiles ,Slough are a mid-table National South team at best.

I didn't want to see Bakes and Unders leave but knew they would, as they have ambitions to manage in the National Premier and beyond. Unless Slough find investment/big sponsorship Slough as a club aren't ready for promotion but is that so bad?

To be honest I had got a bit bored of watching Ben Harris and co, playing a certain brand of football to nullify the opposition and stay mid table,and our club hampering our joint managers with next to no money for signings.

Since Scott Davies has taken over we may be in a relegation dogfight  but least it's exciting to see different players coming in and that we are taking chances on lower non-league players. This is what a non-league football club should be about ,a community club living within it's means with non league players enjoying their football again and not playing for our club for big bucks [if the club can't afford it].

We have a fantastic stadium with no debt. Who's the fools moaning about that?

Why chase this dream of professionalism, to go bust further down the line?

Some people are never satisfied.

The only problem I see with getting relegated/playing at a lower level is that income for the club will almost certainly drop.

 We only rent Arbour Park and no doubt sooner or later, if it hasn't already, the rent will go up and continue rising over time.

I can't vouch for every supporter but I'm sure, unless a rich person or consortium comes along, the club are not seeking this dream of professionalism, just to get to get to the National League where a Town the size of Slough should be. 

[Nathan]

47 minutes ago, 3spirit said:

We have a fantastic stadium with no debt. Who's the fools moaning about that?

Why chase this dream of professionalism, to go bust further down the line?

Some people are never satisfied.

We don't have the stadium. It belongs to the council., and there are serious questions marks over whether it will remain the councils long-term.

And why talk of professionalism as if it's a bad thing?

[Nathan]

6 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

The only problem I see with getting relegated/playing at a lower level is that income for the club will almost certainly drop.

Going down a level may also mean travel costs increase. Assuming we go into the Southern Central, we'll be up against the likes of Basford (Nottingham), Coalville (Leicester), Hednesford (Staffordshire) and Mickleover (Derbyshire). If it's the Southern South it'll be Weston-Super-Mare, Poole, Merthyr, Dorchester, Winchester and Plymouth Parkway. I can't be bothered to to the maths but generally speaking our visits in NLS tend to be much shorter. When we got promoted we lost the away days of Methyr, Weymouth and Dorchester but gained the likes of Hampton, Dulwich, Oxford and Hungerford.

[3spirit]

54 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

The only problem I see with getting relegated/playing at a lower level is that income for the club will almost certainly drop.

 We only rent Arbour Park and no doubt sooner or later, if it hasn't already, the rent will go up and continue rising over time.

I can't vouch for every supporter but I'm sure, unless a rich person or consortium comes along, the club are not seeking this dream of professionalism, just to get to get to the National League where a Town the size of Slough should be. 

It's alright saying that, Reading Rebel but the people of Slough can't be relied upon to come to matches ! 

In theory, a town the size of Slough should have a team in the National Premier but in reality we don't get high enough attendances. If people are desperate to watch professional football then there are plenty of teams close by they can choose from [if non league doesn't rock their boat]. Unfortunately Wycombe Wanderers got there first and have established themselves, and now Maidenhead seem ahead of where Slough are at right now.

The fact is, a good half of the teams in the National Premier are full time teams. I'm not advocating never seeking to make that step up, I'm just saying that with the set up the club has at the moment, is the timing right to shell out and push the club into debt?  To me, it is not. 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by 3spirit

[3spirit]

18 minutes ago, Nathan said:

We don't have the stadium. It belongs to the council., and there are serious questions marks over whether it will remain the councils long-term.

And why talk of professionalism as if it's a bad thing?

The stadium is as good as ours. It's a sight better than groundsharing ! 

Nathan, I don't know how old you are but I see the grass roots game/amateur/semi-pro game as good fun to watch/know about, and more enjoyable than following a full time professional team. I don't want to see Slough slip down to say Windsor's current level but neither am I bothered about matching Woking or Aldershot to become a full time outfit. My preference is for the club to stay in Slough,for it to function within it's means, and that if we do want promotion then the club are properly prepared to match that ambition.

Having followed the club through thick and thin, I think I'm wise enough to make my own judgement on what makes a good football club.   

[Curtis]

Interesting times….. with Ebbsfleet United the very wealthy purchaser of the club in 2013 went on to purchase the ground from the local council & has subsequently invested approximately a million pounds a year in the club.

[RoyalRebel]

1 hour ago, Nathan said:

We don't have the stadium. It belongs to the council., and there are serious questions marks over whether it will remain the councils long-term.

True the stadium structure belongs to the council, but the land it is built on belongs to the Department for Education. It is a joint venture so isn’t an asset the council can simply sell to help pay off their debts.

Edited December 14, 2022 by RoyalRebel
Clarification

[Nathan]

16 minutes ago, 3spirit said:

The stadium is as good as ours. It's a sight better than groundsharing ! 

Nathan, I don't know how old you are but I see the grass roots game/amateur/semi-pro game as good fun to watch/know about, and more enjoyable than following a full time professional team. I don't want to see Slough slip down to say Windsor's current level but neither am I bothered about matching Woking or Aldershot to become a full time outfit. My preference is for the club to stay in Slough,for it to function within it's means, and that if we do want promotion then the club are properly prepared to match that ambition.

Having followed the club through thick and thin, I think I'm wise enough to make my own judgement on what makes a good football club.   

My apologies 3spirit I misinterpreted your comments about professionalism as being about the off-the-field running of the club (I'm not accusing anyone at the club of being unprofessional btw). I don't know who is advocating this, but you are of course quite right to say that we should not chase the dream of being a full-time club (though that would not be necessary for the National League Premier) only to jeopardize the club in the process. I don't see being full-time as the holy grail anyway, part-time is what non-league should be about.

Going back to the ground situation you are right that it is better than ground-sharing, but it is definitely not "as good as ours". The council may decide to sell it from under our feet, leaving us once again in the lurch. The council may decide to up the rent in order to keep it profitable, thus punching another hole into our finances. The council may decide to keep the status-quo. The point is it is out of our hands.

[3spirit]

3 minutes ago, Nathan said:

My apologies 3spirit I misinterpreted your comments about professionalism as being about the off-the-field running of the club (I'm not accusing anyone at the club of being unprofessional btw). I don't know who is advocating this, but you are of course quite right to say that we should not chase the dream of being a full-time club (though that would not be necessary for the National League Premier) only to jeopardize the club in the process. I don't see being full-time as the holy grail anyway, part-time is what non-league should be about.

Going back to the ground situation you are right that it is better than ground-sharing, but it is definitely not "as good as ours". The council may decide to sell it from under our feet, leaving us once again in the lurch. The council may decide to up the rent in order to keep it profitable, thus punching another hole into our finances. The council may decide to keep the status-quo. The point is it is out of our hands.

Thanks for the reply,Nathan.  I know the Arbour Park situation isn't perfect with what's happening with Slough Borough Council but I can't see Arbour Park being sold off.

Slough as a town/area gets a lot of negative press. They need success stories for our area. It would be a truly backward step to take away this asset. When we lost Wexham Park stadium, we the Slough supporters ran various campaigns to highlight this plight. Imagine what we could do, if they throw Slough Town FC out of the stadium they built to house us !

To me if Labour get elected in 2 years time,things will change again.  Different Governments, different ideas.    

[Reading Rebel]

17 hours ago, 3spirit said:

It's alright saying that, Reading Rebel but the people of Slough can't be relied upon to come to matches ! 

In theory, a town the size of Slough should have a team in the National Premier but in reality we don't get high enough attendances. If people are desperate to watch professional football then there are plenty of teams close by they can choose from [if non league doesn't rock their boat]. Unfortunately Wycombe Wanderers got there first and have established themselves, and now Maidenhead seem ahead of where Slough are at right now.

The fact is, a good half of the teams in the National Premier are full time teams. I'm not advocating never seeking to make that step up, I'm just saying that with the set up the club has at the moment, is the timing right to shell out and push the club into debt?  To me, it is not. 

 

You don't have to go full time i.e. Woking, Wealdstone, Maidstone, Maidenhead etc 

As you say if half are full time teams then half are not.  

It's never a good time to shell out and put the club into debt.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Reading Rebel

[Irishadrian]

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

My apologies 3spirit I misinterpreted your comments about professionalism as being about the off-the-field running of the club (I'm not accusing anyone at the club of being unprofessional btw). I don't know who is advocating this, but you are of course quite right to say that we should not chase the dream of being a full-time club (though that would not be necessary for the National League Premier) only to jeopardize the club in the process. I don't see being full-time as the holy grail anyway, part-time is what non-league should be about.

Going back to the ground situation you are right that it is better than ground-sharing, but it is definitely not "as good as ours". The council may decide to sell it from under our feet, leaving us once again in the lurch. The council may decide to up the rent in order to keep it profitable, thus punching another hole into our finances. The council may decide to keep the status-quo. The point is it is out of our hands.

I dont believe theres any chance for years that SBC will want to offload Arbour Park but I believe the Government officials will want the finances looked at When our very low rent was agreed SBC costed the value of the social offset of things we agreed to do for the community at £68000 !

[SloughFlyer]

I understand where those talking about the rental situation with the council as a potential off puter for investors, don't forget that with the current situation of everything going up in price etc, we have an agreement with the council that not only guarentees income for them, it also means that if a floodlight goes out, they have to fix it, if some seats get broken they have to fix it, if a toilet is block, the boiler blows out etc, etc, etc they have to deal with it. In addition, I would assume that there would be fixed percentages of costs (such as gas, water electric etc) that need to be paid, so whilst they are going up, we will know the percentage responsibility the club has. In additon, whilst there maybe a responsibility to contribute to longer term asset replacement, the percentage or fixed cost of these is also known by the club and any future investor.

Whilst there are negatives to renting with the potential uncertainty and any renegotiation of the lease and costs, there is also much certainty that can be gained as well.