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UK Independence party

Stu B

By Stu B
in General Conversation - The Pub!

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EMH O30crew Newbie

EMH O30crew

Posted
Posted

Now that the knee-jerk reaction has calmed down a bit ("why should i explain myself to JillKingIsFit,especially when i think he is a total cockhed")I will explain the first part of what I said.

In the beginning, his "idea" (which is where I think you are jumping off at the deep end) was to create the perfect race of humans, to rid the race of hereditary illness and disease, deformaties and so on.In fact his first attempt was to try and breed it all out by pairing the strongest and fittest in the belief that their offspring would be perfect.Now my point is..it's his idea ...and only his idea...What is wrong with the idea? It's a great idea .If he hadn't turned into a barking meglomaniac, and his ideals got lost in his quest for perfection , world domination and genecide ,who knows?? But that wasnt the point I was making..

So in answer to your question, no, I wasn't trying to be funny...I just believe in the early days, the mans ideas were brilliant.What he turned into later , well you know the rest.

 

 

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mala_D Newbie

mala_D

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Don't mean to come across as a pompous, pedantic git...but I can't resist clarifying "historical facts". Bear with me.

 

It wasn't Mr Hitler's idea...[survival of fittest...strong race etc]

Discussions over 'eugenics' and 'social-Darwinism' were rife in 19th Century Europe.

Nietzsche's "Superman" - the text often credited as having influenced the national socialists - was written in the late-19thC. (Nietzsche died in 1900)

Many myths and legends relating to "purity of race" were constructed during this period. The legend of King Arthur and the Britons was severely emebelished during this period.

The myth regarding the "superbreed" of Aryans [who supposedly conquered the powerful northern-Indian Harrapan civilisation ca. 3000-2500 BC, before migrating across to continental Europe] was constructed in the 19th C. No evidence of the Aryans has been found by archaelogists up to now.

If anything, out of the Nazis, it was Himmler who was more obsessed with the idea of "pure blood" and a noble Germanic race [historical].

 

The British were not above discussing the "eugenics" question, too. In fact the Boy Scout movement arose out of that discussion. Baden Powell wanted to create a super-fit race, and thought the process of "nurture" the most humane method of doing so - as opposed to scientific selection, breeding, and extermination of the unfit.

The Hitler Youth movement merely adapted and exploited an existing youth movement.

Every western nation prior to Hitler had its own discourse on the subject, relating to the fitness and racial purity of its citizens.

The idea of "manufacturing" a super-race has cropped up again in the last few years with the advent of scientific cloning. It is merely a development of that 19thC idea.

 

Now...if we're talking about holocausts and masacres of Jews. Again, not Hitler's "idea".

 

I think the first real masacre [discounting Biblical ones such as Herod's] occurred in Hungary as Crusaders made their way to Palestine. About 50,000 Jews were killed then, if I remember correctly. In an age before "industrial genocide", this figure is frightening.

Later on, there were the pogroms in Russia in the 19th C, whereupon thousands were slaughtered. Many of the survivors fled across Europe to Poland and Germany...even Britain. [some of my descendents were German-Jewish immigrants to Spitalfields, funny enough!]

 

There was also the genocide of the Armenians, when from 1915 the Ottoman [Turk] government decided to exterminate as many Armenians as possible from eastern Anatolia. 2-3 million people are said to have been murdered.

 

And lastly, "national socialism" was not necessarily "dreamed up" by Hitler. One of the founders of pre-Marx socialism, Henri de Saint-Simon (1760-1825), flirted with the idea...but from a government and economic perspective. Nothing to do with Nazism.

 

As for Hitler's psychological profile:

There is fairly strong evidence that Hitler was mentally disturbed from an early age, perhaps pre-WWI. Undoubtedly he was a perverse, psychotic [***!!***] who did not have the intelectual capacity to formulate a "master plan", let alone a master race.

As I said on another thread [i think], the Nazis wanted to transport all Untermenschen [Jews, Poles, Homosexuals, Slavs etc] to Madagascar, but the relative weakness of the German war effort and the existence of the British Navy put paid to that scheme. It is argued that the Holocaust was not the original intention, but was arrived at by accident and perverse "necessity".

 

Dad, you are perfectly entitled to believe in the merits of eugenics and cloning, if that's what your post [above] implies.

BUT [JKIF take especial note, mate] I think Dad originally referred to the idea of "one world government" [and as a joke] and I didn't hear him advocate extermination of Jews.

This is the problem; when anyone makes any mention of Hitler the semitic lobby immediately jump down people's throats.

And as someone with Jewish ancestry [who hasn't, I ask?] I think THAT attitude is detrimental to "free speech".

 

 

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Big J R Newbie

Big J R

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Posted
Quote:
maladroit said:


Now...if we're talking about holocausts and masacres of Jews. Again, not Hitler's "idea".




[color:"red"] Who invented the Concentration Camp ?


WE DID IN AFRICA. (Read Winston Churchill's book !) [color:"black"]
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mala_D Newbie

mala_D

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Quote:
Big J R said:
[color:"red"] Who invented the Concentration Camp ?
WE DID IN AFRICA. (Read Winston Churchill's book !) [color:"black"]


That's right [boer War]...but the intention was not to exterminate anyone, or put them into forced labour...but to detain them.
Forceful detention of innocents, still unreasonable behaviour.
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JaredSUFC Newbie

JaredSUFC

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The British interned innocent women and children, because they happened to be boers. The conditions in the camps were applaing and a lot of people did actually die. Around the same time the Americans were doing the same thing in the Phillopines.

 

As for massacres/genocides, Hitler took his inspiration from the Armenian massacre, and the lack of international outcry over that, he was just an oppertunist who got lucky in the 1930's anyway.

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EMH O30crew Newbie

EMH O30crew

Posted
Posted

Just read your full post mal..wasnt referring to anything of the sort (one world government as a joke)...Just exactly what I said...I believe he had the right ideas at first...Just went way way over the top trying to carry it out..and I never said he thought of it first by the way..Funny..now I am racist according to on particular dikhead..Weird how some people percieve what you write and others see it meaning something totally different..

Heres to free speech and opinions!!

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mala_D Newbie

mala_D

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But you did keep saying "his idea"...

Doesn't matter. I don't really give 5hit and I know you don't. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think what I was getting off about [and I was nutted] was that the eugenics/social darwinism aspect was not down to one bloke, but instead lots of people [and factors] contributed to it. I think that's more dangerous than just one geezer spouting off.

Anyway, Dad...took the focus of you for a bit. No doubt more people will slag it off after this.

You having a beer in the clubhouse tomorrow? <img src="/images/graemlins/jump.gif" alt="" />

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mala_D Newbie

mala_D

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Posted
Quote:
JaredSUFC said:
The British interned innocent women and children, because they happened to be boers.


..or did you mean bores! <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Because I'm in danger of being interned at this rate <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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