Jonathan North Departs

[SloughFlyer]

1 hour ago, Irishadrian said:

I do wonder if Jon shot himself in the foot On several occasions he declared himself unavailable giving Rhys the opportunities he took so well. If you're  number 1 then imo absolute commitment is a given.

I think the absences were already known pre-season Adrian, hence the addition of Rhys in the first place and the pre-season games he played.

The danger, regardless of position you run of not being available, is if the person the replaces you does better than you have, you have lost your place.

As you said, #1 needs full commitment, but in fairness to North, im sure STFC wasn't his full time occupation and I'm sure he didn't make enough out of football to retire, thus, fair play to him for putting work first as that has to be his priority.

Now please excuse me, as I think I've just defended Jonathon North above and I need a lay down in a dark room???

[Reading Rebel]

21 hours ago, 3spirit said:

I would think Jonathan North was on more money than Rhys Forster, so to me this is to save a few bob to put towards recruiting another striker. Same as with Dobbo leaving. Money is obviously getting tight after the FA Cup exit.

I wish Jon North all the best. I still think he's a good goalkeeper, and will soon get snapped up. Prone to the odd gaffe but on the whole worth his place.

Rhys Forster looks promising,though.   

Show me a keeper who is not prone to the odd gaffe.

The best ones are the ones who make the fewest gaffes.

[Sir Rebel1965]

1 hour ago, SloughFlyer said:

The problem is Glen, if the club that comes in for a young player that is trying to make a go of football and "turns his head" how on earth can we as a club stand firm? You end up with a few problems from that;

- an unhappy player that at best isn't going to perform brilliantly for you.

- the squad potentially having unrest in it.

- word getting around that we as a club won't support the development of young players / stand in the way of players moving up etc.

All in all its a very difficult and beyond ideal situation if/when it happens.

With regards to Rhys specifically there are a few differences between him and Edon not least of which is his age (19 to 23). It us fairly unlikely that a prem team are going to come in for a 23 year old goalkeeper regardless of how well he plays for Slough in the Conference South (sorry to Rhys if he is reading that and bursts his bubble, I didnt mean it).

Besides, let's look on the bright side, we have an very good thus far young goalkeeper in place and the team is performing better than it has for a while. I'm sure the club has protected itself as best as possible, specifically around Rhys and if he leaves to go to Man City, good luck to him and we as a club will have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

A contract is a legal agreement between two parties, which needs both sides to honour.

In most cases one side pays money, and the other is obliged to provide the service.

If one side wishes to break the contract, they need to provide compensation to the other party.

In football the club wanting to “buy” the player pays on behalf of the payer an agreed “compensation” fee for releasing the player from the contract early to the side holding the contract.

However, the contacted club need to ensure they pay the wages in a prompt manner as laid out by the contract – if the club is short of money and default, then the player can either seek compensation for the shortfall in the contracted pay, or declare that the club has defaulted on the contract and that they are now a free agent.

As others have said – why have players on contracts if you are not going to hold them to it?

The club have now set a precedent where they are seen as a “soft touch” when it comes to holding players to contacts, so will either have to grow some teeth the next time a contracted player is approached (if a club truly wants a player, they have to pay the due compensation) or get rid of all contracts, which considering the limited finances available will mean it is easier to reduce cost by releasing players without the constraints of a contract.

If a player wants the benefits of having a contract to ensure they get paid for a set term, then they have to understand the other side is that they must play for the club or provide compensation.

[SloughFlyer]

20 minutes ago, Sir Rebel1965 said:

A contract is a legal agreement between two parties, which needs both sides to honour.

In most cases one side pays money, and the other is obliged to provide the service.

If one side wishes to break the contract, they need to provide compensation to the other party.

In football the club wanting to “buy” the player pays on behalf of the payer an agreed “compensation” fee for releasing the player from the contract early to the side holding the contract.

However, the contacted club need to ensure they pay the wages in a prompt manner as laid out by the contract – if the club is short of money and default, then the player can either seek compensation for the shortfall in the contracted pay, or declare that the club has defaulted on the contract and that they are now a free agent.

As others have said – why have players on contracts if you are not going to hold them to it?

The club have now set a precedent where they are seen as a “soft touch” when it comes to holding players to contacts, so will either have to grow some teeth the next time a contracted player is approached (if a club truly wants a player, they have to pay the due compensation) or get rid of all contracts, which considering the limited finances available will mean it is easier to reduce cost by releasing players without the constraints of a contract.

If a player wants the benefits of having a contract to ensure they get paid for a set term, then they have to understand the other side is that they must play for the club or provide compensation.

100% spot on SR165, in a black and white world purely on paper you couldnt be more correct.....

HOWEVER

What you fail to factor into your very comprehensive descriptions above is the intangible factors;

- what about the impact on the players day to day performance of staying somewhere when he would rather be somewhere else?

- what about the impact on the dressing room knowing you have a colleague and team mate that would rather be somewhere else?

- what about the impact on the club for the signing of future younger players, knowing that if they sign a contract and a prem club comes in throwing their weight around, it's tough luck unless the prem club play ball?

- what about the impact on the supporters who know that the player wanted to move somewhere else?

All of the above are not black and white parts of the overall picture and unfortunately whether you or I want to agree, are very much part of the whole situation and have to be taken into consideration.

On the Edon situation specifically, I was surprised when we managed to re-sign him in the summer as I know there were at least 5 other offers on the table. I know he is a very ambious lad who turned down educational opportunities to pursue football as a career and I know that it was a tough situation for everyone involved to deal with.

I disagree that the club is seen as a soft touch, I actually think the club will be seen as an attractive option for players with thoughts of developing to the highest level as we know the club won't stand in their way. I also 100% believe that had it been anything other than a prem team the situation may have been different. I am also under no disillusion of where Slough Town fall in the pecking order of things and if it had been Uxbridge coming in for him he wouldn't have gone for an extra £20 per week.

The reason to have contracts is very simple, to stop a team with £50 a week extra for a player making 7 day approaches for said individual. That's why we have them and why they are important.

We as a supporter base need to understand that whilst we are married to the club forever, players come and go regardless of if it is in the right way in our eyes or the wrong way. That's the nature of every club in the world from Man City to Holyport and everything in between.

[Footyfan007]

Its the next move after Slough that is the commercal key to the club, if another move did occur as progressing up the ladder in the football world, still some risk there though as may not happen! 23 is also very young for a keeper and I believe if Rhys keeps grounded and performs consistently he may have a chance if he did wish to progres higher.

Very rare a player goes for high value onto the next step up from semi pro, a recent one is Ollie Tanner (20) went from Lewes to Cardiff City undisclosed fee but rumoured to be a 50k plus add ons.  Don't think he has started a game this season for Cardiff as yet.  Spurs also showed an interest for him.

Tough decisions contract or not based on club budgets, at the end of the day the player is an asset of the club if under contract and you would hope a immediate or later commercial reward would occur under this circumstance.

SF is also spot on so many variances in a given scenario.

[Sir Rebel1965]

1 hour ago, SloughFlyer said:

100% spot on SR165, in a black and white world purely on paper you couldnt be more correct.....

HOWEVER

What you fail to factor into your very comprehensive descriptions above is the intangible factors;

- what about the impact on the players day to day performance of staying somewhere when he would rather be somewhere else?

- what about the impact on the dressing room knowing you have a colleague and team mate that would rather be somewhere else?

- what about the impact on the club for the signing of future younger players, knowing that if they sign a contract and a prem club comes in throwing their weight around, it's tough luck unless the prem club play ball?

- what about the impact on the supporters who know that the player wanted to move somewhere else?

All of the above are not black and white parts of the overall picture and unfortunately whether you or I want to agree, are very much part of the whole situation and have to be taken into consideration.

On the Edon situation specifically, I was surprised when we managed to re-sign him in the summer as I know there were at least 5 other offers on the table. I know he is a very ambious lad who turned down educational opportunities to pursue football as a career and I know that it was a tough situation for everyone involved to deal with.

I disagree that the club is seen as a soft touch, I actually think the club will be seen as an attractive option for players with thoughts of developing to the highest level as we know the club won't stand in their way. I also 100% believe that had it been anything other than a prem team the situation may have been different. I am also under no disillusion of where Slough Town fall in the pecking order of things and if it had been Uxbridge coming in for him he wouldn't have gone for an extra £20 per week.

The reason to have contracts is very simple, to stop a team with £50 a week extra for a player making 7 day approaches for said individual. That's why we have them and why they are important.

We as a supporter base need to understand that whilst we are married to the club forever, players come and go regardless of if it is in the right way in our eyes or the wrong way. That's the nature of every club in the world from Man City to Holyport and everything in between.

SF

Agree with your "softer" reasons for a contract to be removed.

Soft touch from bigger clubs, but the players have to remember who gave them the opportunity to show their skills and show that club some loyalty, even if that is making sure they get a fee to reflect the time and effort the club put in.

The one option of overturning a contract I missed, would be if both sides agree to cancel the contract.

With money tight the club needs to make sure it gets funds from every source available.

 

[SloughFlyer]

33 minutes ago, Sir Rebel1965 said:

SF

Agree with your "softer" reasons for a contract to be removed.

Soft touch from bigger clubs, but the players have to remember who gave them the opportunity to show their skills and show that club some loyalty, even if that is making sure they get a fee to reflect the time and effort the club put in.

The one option of overturning a contract I missed, would be if both sides agree to cancel the contract.

With money tight the club needs to make sure it gets funds from every source available.

 

Totally agree about the money from wherever we can as a club. On the Edon occasion, we couldn't get anything up front. I know there are items later in Edons career that we would benefit from, but nothing up front.

Loyalty is a tough one for me. Can't think of too many footballers that given the opportunity to move, technically, 5 divisions up and probably massively increase both wages and opportunities would say "nope, im loyal to a club who I have been with for 8 months". A very idealistic view im afraid SR1965 and not one I expect from any player.

One of those things with Edon. I just hope he does well in the future so we can benefit from him moving on.

[Sir Rebel1965]

On a related issue to player movements, does anyone know how many players have agents at this level?

[Neil Baker]

4 hours ago, Sir Rebel1965 said:

On a related issue to player movements, does anyone know how many players have agents at this level?

Quite a few, I would say most of the younger players all have them, your slightly old school players like Scott Davies, Guy Hollis, Goddard’s, Jackman Lench etc don’t.

[Reading Rebel]

2 hours ago, Neil Baker said:

Quite a few, I would say most of the younger players all have them, your slightly old school players like Scott Davies, Guy Hollis, Goddard’s, Jackman Lench etc don’t.

Might seem a silly question but do these agents command a fee for just being a players agent or only when they instigate a move?

[GlenSTFC]

17 minutes ago, Reading Rebel said:

Might seem a silly question but do these agents command a fee for just being a players agent or only when they instigate a move?

Well I know of one agent who is looking after 3 of our players! But still I feel it’s a little OTT at our level unless you’re a young highly rated player then yes it’s understandable. This reminds me of the Ryan Hope agent saga!

[Sir Rebel1965]

3 hours ago, Neil Baker said:

Quite a few, I would say most of the younger players all have them, your slightly old school players like Scott Davies, Guy Hollis, Goddard’s, Jackman Lench etc don’t.

Not sure an agent will always have the youngsters’ best intentions at the top of their list!

But I guess there may be one or two decent agents that do the right thing for the player.

Sometimes with the youngsters best “agent” is a parent to get them started right.

Older players are wiser so why give an agent a slice of the cake.

I know when I was looking after Engineering Apprentices, I would welcome the involvement of the parents as this ensured the youngster was getting the support from home and that the parents would make sure the youngster got to work on time, did homework etc.

The company I did my Apprenticeship at even invited my mum and dad in for a look round the company and lunch – that way they were happy the company were doing the right thing and I then could not pull the wool over mum and dad’s eyes!

However, with the upper levels of the game now being a business rather than a sport, the less financially aware players do need the right level of guidance to make sure the clubs and agents don’t rip them off!

As for agents at our level – leaves a bitter taste in my mouth knowing they are taking a slice of the cake at the players and small club’s expense.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Sir Rebel1965

[Neil Baker]

Have to say agents really vary, lots don’t actually take a slice of their money at this stage, and no we do not pay any agent fees (though some clubs do)

However they are all looking at finding that one player who goes on and makes it big, an example of looking at the long game is one of my mortgage clients, his agent recently earned over million pounds off his last contract which was a 4 year deal, and did very little on it.

Some give poor advice, however unfortunately you also get parents who can give really poor advice as they don’t actually understand the process and how it works, and just want their child to move on to bigger and better, and will often encourage to take that trial here or there…

My advice to all young players is to take advice if they want, but also speak to someone impartial like an experienced or ex player, Scott Davies or such like who has been there and done it would be my go to if I was a young lad.

Some do that and listen, some don’t.

Ryan Hope was a perfect example of a poor agent, and we have had one recently whereby I have warned the player about his representative.

However on the flip side we have worked with Catalyst who work with George Hunt, Joe Dandy and Rhys Forster, and they seem to get what we are about and what is good for the players, and so far has worked very well.

[Sir Rebel1965]

2 hours ago, Neil Baker said:

Have to say agents really vary, lots don’t actually take a slice of their money at this stage, and no we do not pay any agent fees (though some clubs do)

However they are all looking at finding that one player who goes on and makes it big, an example of looking at the long game is one of my mortgage clients, his agent recently earned over million pounds off his last contract which was a 4 year deal, and did very little on it.

Some give poor advice, however unfortunately you also get parents who can give really poor advice as they don’t actually understand the process and how it works, and just want their child to move on to bigger and better, and will often encourage to take that trial here or there…

My advice to all young players is to take advice if they want, but also speak to someone impartial like an experienced or ex player, Scott Davies or such like who has been there and done it would be my go to if I was a young lad.

Some do that and listen, some don’t.

Ryan Hope was a perfect example of a poor agent, and we have had one recently whereby I have warned the player about his representative.

However on the flip side we have worked with Catalyst who work with George Hunt, Joe Dandy and Rhys Forster, and they seem to get what we are about and what is good for the players, and so far has worked very well.

Thanks Neil, good to hear what it is like at this level and it gives us fans a better idea of why there are some "strange" moves by players.

 

The suggestion of talking to players like Scott makes total sense as he has seen the good and bad sides of professional football, and it would be good for young players to hear that first hand.

[Kaiser Gibbs Batman (KGB)]

These scenarios are not unknown at other clubs. Horsham cancelled the first team goalkeeper's contract, by mutual consent, so that he could join Wealdstone, who, with the best will in the world, aren't exactly Brentford.  

[GlenSTFC]

45 minutes ago, Kaiser Gibbs Batman (KGB) said:

These scenarios are not unknown at other clubs. Horsham cancelled the first team goalkeeper's contract, by mutual consent, so that he could join Wealdstone, who, with the best will in the world, aren't exactly Brentford.  

Still think it’s quite rare a contracted non league player not receiving a fee for his club though. You would hope at the very least we could have negotiated a pre season friendly against a strong Bees team with them taking no fees or split of gate. That could have generated around £10,000 from a 1,000 crowd.

[SloughFlyer]

2 hours ago, GlenSTFC said:

Still think it’s quite rare a contracted non league player not receiving a fee for his club though. You would hope at the very least we could have negotiated a pre season friendly against a strong Bees team with them taking no fees or split of gate. That could have generated around £10,000 from a 1,000 crowd.

I am 100% certain the club did everything they could do to try and get something, short of holding his registration/demanding he stayed, and we all know that would have been a poor move.

I agree, you would think a club like Brentford would have looked after the little guy, but cash is king and £10k could pay a couple of days wages for their inflated premier league "stars"

[Reading Rebel]

6 hours ago, GlenSTFC said:

Still think it’s quite rare a contracted non league player not receiving a fee for his club though. You would hope at the very least we could have negotiated a pre season friendly against a strong Bees team with them taking no fees or split of gate. That could have generated around £10,000 from a 1,000 crowd.

Agree with Glen, a pre season game should have been the least Brentford could have offered us in return.

[Neil Baker]

A pre season game has been agreed, however this is against their B team

[Irishadrian]

Northy has signed for Aveley.