Torquay away

[epicrebel]

46 minutes ago, 3spirit said:

I'm a believer of being innocent until proven guilty. My post of 'Bloody Ben Harris' was purely an armchair reaction to seeing Slough being 0-0 with the league leaders, to then finding out that Ben had pretty much thrown away our chance to get anything from the game by getting sent off.  

It's not the first time we've had difficult troublemaker/wind up merchants in our team. Over the 30 odd years I've been watching Slough there have been quite a few, ranging from players like Gary Donellan, Darren Anderson, Mark Pye, Paul Coyne, Christian Metcalfe, Sean Sonner, Ed Smith etc. So a player like Ben Harris is nothing new to the regular football spectator.

To be honest, I thought when Ben first started playing for Slough, that it was a good thing to have a feisty/stirrer upper like him in the midst of our team,as at times, the team was a bit too clean cut and too nice to grind out results against some of the intimidatory factors that certain opposition teams have. However, as time has marched on, he is becoming a liability and not what our current team needs to improve. The way I see it, it's like the past Ed Smith situation,that Bakes and Unders had to deal with. Ed Smith was a class act footballer and a prolific scorer but some of his shinanigans were put up with because he was such a fine footballer and in his best days he was an asset on the field of play to Slough, both under the management of Steve Bateman and Bakes/Unders,so allowances were made.                                                                                                                                                                                    

The point I'm trying make, though, is that Ed Smith became a liability and needed to leave the club for Slough to progress. Ben Harris is nowhere near as an effective a player to the team, as Smithy was back then. Ed Smith because of his talents was a hard one to replace, Ben  Harris is not.

Neil Baker is right to stick up for his players, as any good manager would but sticking up for a player who is IMO is letting his team mates down, by his actions alone, isn't such a good thing.                                                                                   

Ben Harris needs Slough Town FC,  Slough Town FC don't need Ben Harris !  I'm all for giving a players first/second/third chances to address their misdemeanours/bad ways but not when players keep transgressing. Ben Harris needs to buck up his ideas, otherwise he's going to be shown the door IMO.     

   

Right Ben has only got 5 (with yesterdays Y)  yellow card, the ones against Wealdstone H & A in my opinion were not fouls hard but fair. Didn't see yesterdays Y so can't say about that.

With Ben saying he didn't do the W sign and the ref was wrong that sort of sinks your statement as he has not got a bad discipline record. We've got a player with 2 more bookings than Ben 2 or 3 about the same bookings (if the 2 I think wasn't bookings 5 players if you count this) And of cause 2 players already been suspended through red cards. I'd rather see a player booked for playing hard then ones being booked for back chat or kicking the ball away needless bookings.

edit,,,,,,,,, I'm talking League games (even though 1 red was a cup game)

Edited January 6, 2019 by epicrebel

[3spirit]

12 minutes ago, epicrebel said:

Right Ben has only got 5 (with yesterdays Y)  yellow card, the ones against Wealdstone H & A in my opinion were not fouls hard but fair. Didn't see yesterdays Y so can't say about that.

With Ben saying he didn't do the W sign and the ref was wrong that sort of sinks your statement as he has not got a bad discipline record. We've got a player with 2 more bookings than Ben 2 or 3 about the same bookings (if the 2 I think wasn't bookings 5 players if you count this) And of cause 2 players already been suspended through red cards. I'd rather see a player booked for playing hard then ones being booked for back chat or kicking the ball away needless bookings.

Well, Epic Rebel, he might not have got the cautions he deserved but it doesn't make him an angel !

Your final sentence calls it, as I see it but it hardly makes a case for Ben Harris !

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by 3spirit

[epicrebel]

2 minutes ago, 3spirit said:

Well, Epic Rebel, he might not have got the cautions he deserved but it doesn't make him an angel !

Your final sentence calls it, as I see it but it hardly makes a case for Ben Harris !

 

AND he might of got the cautions he didn't deserve, The only way a player is a liability is when they are not on the pitch, or not putting in the effort. Ben is not guilty on both these. Ben is the only player that has scored in all companions we've played in.  

[Reading Rebel]

26 minutes ago, kirk said:

I agree he spoils it for the team and the hundred or so who like me travelled all that way.These last few games have shown me that we need a couple of up market strikers to play alongside Cris Flood.

What is an 'up market' striker?

[3spirit]

Just now, epicrebel said:

AND he might of got the cautions he didn't deserve, The only way a player is a liability is when they are not on the pitch, or not putting in the effort. Ben is not guilty on both these. Ben is the only player that has scored in all companions we've played in.  

You're watching a different player to what I'm seeing.

To me he is a wind up merchant who gets embroiled in stuff that he doesn't have to. I've seen a few dirty challenges that he has made and got away with but that's down to the ref/linesmen to sort out. The point I'm more interested in, is;  is he doing for our team, a service or a disservice? Currently I believe it is the latter !  

As for goals he's scored, he's scored 6, hasn't he? That's hardly prolific. There are plenty of strikers around, who could do as good a job as he is doing for us, who would be a lot better for the team and who would go about their business quietly.

Why some of us are sticking up for him,when he has cost us the chance of getting points off the league leaders, beggars belief.

[Irishadrian]

I don't think a credible defence of any players disciplinary record is to say we've got lots even worse!

Ben has 7 yellows and 1 red this season which isn't great IMO

More concerning for me is that in 19 league games he has scored just 2 goals 

[3spirit]

Interesting interview with Gary Johnson on Youtube about Torquay's performance yesterday and how his team are shaping up.Doesn't mention Slough much, except for the Harris incident and our tactic of the Guy Hollis throw. Comes across as a wily old fox.Worth a view.

 

 

[Reading Rebel]

1 hour ago, 3spirit said:

You're watching a different player to what I'm seeing.

To me he is a wind up merchant who gets embroiled in stuff that he doesn't have to. I've seen a few dirty challenges that he has made and got away with but that's down to the ref/linesmen to sort out. The point I'm more interested in, is;  is he doing for our team, a service or a disservice? Currently I believe it is the latter !  

As for goals he's scored, he's scored 6, hasn't he? That's hardly prolific. There are plenty of strikers around, who could do as good a job as he is doing for us, who would be a lot better for the team and who would go about their business quietly.

Why some of us are sticking up for him,when he has cost us the chance of getting points off the league leaders, beggars belief.

TBH if the Ref got it wrong I'm surprised more supporters haven't been voicing their opinions in support of Ben.

[RebelVilla]

I was not at the game yesterday therefore cannot pass comment on what may or may not have taken place.

However, in the context of the season, yesterday was only one match. It was the first time that we have been beaten in the league by more than one goal, and this was by the team who in my opinion will win the league. We need to reflect on where we were last season against where we are now.

If there are any issues which require addressing, then I am sure that we can rely on Neil and Jon to take the appropriate action and it will remain in house. If Ben was the victim of a poor decision by the referee then we will have to take it on the chin and move on.

The most important thing now is to concentrate on the next game. Let's all look forward to a positive reaction on Tuesday evening and have a good team performance resulting in 3 points against a good Bath City side.

COYR

 

 

 

[epicrebel]

9 hours ago, 3spirit said:

You're watching a different player to what I'm seeing.

To me he is a wind up merchant who gets embroiled in stuff that he doesn't have to. I've seen a few dirty challenges that he has made and got away with but that's down to the ref/linesmen to sort out. The point I'm more interested in, is;  is he doing for our team, a service or a disservice? Currently I believe it is the latter !  

As for goals he's scored, he's scored 6, hasn't he? That's hardly prolific. There are plenty of strikers around, who could do as good a job as he is doing for us, who would be a lot better for the team and who would go about their business quietly.

Why some of us are sticking up for him,when he has cost us the chance of getting points off the league leaders, beggars belief.

How come you say this about Ben but not about say Nis or Guy or even Dobbo all got sent off??????????????

No you just don't like Ben as much as you'd love a tall centre forward.

On the scoring only 1 player has scored more than him. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by epicrebel

[Curtis]

We won the match when Nis was sent off early on, and were losing in a Cup match and chasing the game when Guy was sent off... when was Dobbo sent off this season?

[Guest Wycombe Rebel]

I think 3spirit is just making the point that Ben’s way of playing has got himself in this situation regardless of whether he is innocent or guilty, why even make any gesture that could be misread??? Whatever way you look at it, his action has potentially cost us points...

Lets not forget the v sign against H&R first game of the season, you can’t do it these days, it’s a vastly changed world...

[Neil Baker]

Think you have hit the nail on the head there.

We will be appealing having seen the full footage, as he clearly did not do what the ref sent him off for, however if we win may depend a bit on what the official puts in his report.

I will go on record and say that Ben knows he let the boys down by getting involved with them, and giving the ref a decision to make, however he should not be vilified the way he has been (not just on here but on twitter etc).

He will learn from it, we have made it clear the standards we expect from him moving forward, and that we will not tolerate him getting involved with the opposition fans, I expect him to adhere to it.

A Cantona flying Kung fu kick this was not... it was a mistake, but nowhere near as bad as it has been blown up to be.

Lets try and move on, and get together for what is another tough game Tuesday night.

[Rebel Wokingham]

Disappointing to see the abuse Ben Harris is getting. He gives everything in every game and clearly cares. He gets too involved at times but give me a player like that any day over someone that just goes through the motions. Get off his back and support him. 

[3spirit]

1 hour ago, epicrebel said:

How come you say this about Ben but not about say Nis or Guy or even Dobbo all got sent off??????????????

No you just don't like Ben as much as you'd love a tall centre forward.

On the scoring only 1 player has scored more than him. 

No Epicrebel, it's not about me wanting a tall forward. If Ben Harris let his football do the talking, and he played fair and he channelled his efforts in the right way, I would be happy for him to stay but he doesn't, does he?

Latterly last season,he came in and scored a good few goals and looked a good acquisition for our squad's front line.In the games he played he gave the team a lift with his arrival. However, pre-season he caused bother in the friendly with Borehamwood,which led to a brawl, with one of the Borehamwood players getting sent off,after the said Borehamwood player felt aggrieved by the dodgy Ben Harris challenge, he put in. Ben Harris got away with it that night.  

This league season, he has been underwelming,doesn't score enough goals, and his play acting/diving/ and causing bother is detrimental to what Slough are trying to do as a team, so why would I sing his praises?  You are right though,I would keep the rest of the Slough squad, over Ben Harris, as all the rest play honestly and try their best.

To me there are better players out there [even in lower divisions] who would do us a better job than what Ben Harris is currently giving us [and no,they aren't all tall !].

It's just that I no longer wear those rose tinted glasses, where Ben Harris is concerned. To me, we are barking mad covering up for his misdemeanours.  

[3spirit]

48 minutes ago, rebelsry said:

Disappointing to see the abuse Ben Harris is getting. He gives everything in every game and clearly cares. He gets too involved at times but give me a player like that any day over someone that just goes through the motions. Get off his back and support him. 

Welcome to the forum, Rebelsry.

No one on the forum is abusing Ben Harris. People are just saying how they see it. To me Ben Harris brings it on himself ie no one goes on about Chris Flood, Manny Williams,etc. If he starts scoring goals and keeps himself out of the bother, I'm sure the flak wouldn't be on him but I'm not holding my breath where that's concerned !

Edited January 7, 2019 by 3spirit

[Radders]

3spirit, abusing may not be the best word but you are certainly on Ben Harris’ back virtually every week. You have questioned his character on numerous occasions and have made it very clear you don’t want him around our club. As others have pointed out his disciplinary record is no worse than many of our other players - I don’t care if, in your opinion, he should have been booked in every game he’s played, he hasn’t been and that’s the facts. His booking on New Years Day was for a hard tackle, but in my opinion and many others (who were standing right next to it) a fair tackle that we have been crying out for our players to make for years - we can’t have it both ways. 

I wasn’t at Torquay, however I said to others that if Ben had have given the gesture of which he was accused, I would have no arguments with the managers making any decisions necessary, including getting rid. However, as Bakes has now said, it appears he didn’t make this particular gesture and therefore I expect and hope to see Ben back in a Slough shirt for many more games. In our current squad he would be in my starting 11 week in, week out mainly due to his passion, commitment and whole hearted approach.

[Radders]

Also I don’t remember anyone coming on here on New Year’s Day to comment on Wealdstone’s keeper making a similar gesture to those behind the goal that day. No, much better to slag off our own than criticise the opposition.

[Guest Wycombe Rebel]

9 hours ago, Neil Baker said:

Think you have hit the nail on the head there.

We will be appealing having seen the full footage, as he clearly did not do what the ref sent him off for, however if we win may depend a bit on what the official puts in his report.

I will go on record and say that Ben knows he let the boys down by getting involved with them, and giving the ref a decision to make, however he should not be vilified the way he has been (not just on here but on twitter etc).

He will learn from it, we have made it clear the standards we expect from him moving forward, and that we will not tolerate him getting involved with the opposition fans, I expect him to adhere to it.

A Cantona flying Kung fu kick this was not... it was a mistake, but nowhere near as bad as it has been blown up to be.

Lets try and move on, and get together for what is another tough game Tuesday night.

Completely agree Neil, I like Ben Harris's way of playing, he shows real passion and commitment, ok that is playing on the edge and that can sometimes lead to a situation like this BUT it is what it is...

3spirit has his opinion and he is fully entitled to it, I remember getting rounded upon a few years ago in the Bateman era for what people saw as causing trouble/unrest which was completely unfounded and unfair to the point I no longer wanted to watch the team as I felt threatened for voicing a truthful opinion. Please lets all move on from this now!

Edited January 7, 2019 by CookhamRebel
spelling error

[Stuntman Mark]

The full video is up so those of you not there can make your minds up. The initial foul is at about 2.50 minutes.