Midweek 22nd-25th Match Thread

[doughie]

quality without results are pointless . results without quality is boring

[Krooner]

on the other hand krooner the ball was in the air 81% , sad day today with Johan Cruyff passing.... but one of hes quotes   " Quality with results is pointless. Results without quality is boring"  Krooner enjoy the latter                                                                                                                          R.I.P Johan cruyff

Thanks doughie   Good bunch over there and a club on the way up.  Good luck to you all.

 

Quality is of course in the eye of the beholder

[Beano_ATMFC]

quality without results is pointless . results without quality is boring

 

A great quote and very true.

 

However, if you give me a choice between a dull game which my team wins, or a wonderful fixture full of pretty football in which we get beat, I'll take the dull 1-0 all day, every day.

 

At the end of the day, we all want to win. I couldn't give a flying toot whether my team plays like Brazil 1970 or Wimbledon 1988, as long as they finish the game ahead. Of course, I want my team to pass the ball brilliantly and I expect their approach to be competitive but fair. Cheating is, for me, a no-no. But, more than anything, I want to win.

 

How many of the people on here who have slaughtered Camberley's style of play have actually ended up victorious against them? The Krooners might not be easy on the eye (or the ear - the Radio Wey commentary on the game at Ashford last weekend didn't sound like a great game, not that I cared when it finished 1-0 to the Ash Trees), but they are effective and therefore must command respect.

 

I do enjoy watching quick, passing football and I'd prefer to watch that than a more direct style of play. But I hate losing. In Ashford's Ryman Premier days, there were a few occasions where we launched the ball into the box in the last few minutes and got a goal that got us either a win or a draw. Those goals made me seriously happy, because we got a result.

 

So, the next time you want to make a comment about "hoofball" or something like that, have a look at the League Table. Or last season's Honours List. Then ask yourself this: 'Where would I rather be? Where my club is now, or where Camberley are?'

 

As an Ashford fan, I'm quite happy with footballing life. But I respect Camberley for all they have achieved in the last few years and I couldn't care less how they do it. 

 

Give me boring over pointless any time.

[johnnojudo]

Boring has yet again not won them the league this season!! So for all the boring football, and all the boring wins to become a top 4 finisher, what has actually been achieved??

 

The league cup and minor senior trophies are lovely don't get me wrong, but we all know what Camberley town have strived for and been trying to achieve since entering the CCL in 2006. Promotion!!

[Beano_ATMFC]

But there's no guarantee that changing their style would win Camberley that promotion. My own club, Ashford Town (Middlesex) are capable of breathtaking football at times. But we have a young team who are occasionally naive defensively and there's been the odd lapse in discipline. We haven't yet achieved promotion, despite that being the club's aim, but no-one slaughters us to the extent that Camberley get, so results alone aren't a justification for some of the things that get posted.

 

Edit: why do any of us do this? To win things. Last season, Camberley won the League Cup and Johnno makes reference to "minor senior trophies".  The League Cup and "minor senior trophies" are precisely what he won at Cove as a player. 

 

For many of us - especially non-players, like myself - winning a trophy is the memory that makes the horrible season(s) a bit more bearable.

 

I didn't put countless hours of my own time into my club so we could finish third or fourth, as Arsenal do; I did it to make the club better and in the hope that I would get to experience things like the Middlesex Charity Cup Final of 2012, where Kofi Lockhart-Adams came off the bench to score four goals and the winning penalty in the shoot-out. Or the 2007 Isthmian League Cup Final (on my birthday) where Ashford were 4-1 winners over Dover Athletic. Or beating Woking in the 2009 Surrey Senior Cup Final.

 

It was Danny Blanchflower who said "the game is about glory". While his Tottenham side played some lovely football, I believe that, for him, glory came from winning things.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how your team approaches the match; what matters is the final score.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Beano_ATMFC

[johnnojudo]

I've not brought this discussion up again so really not wanting to bang on about it but.... for the last time....

My gripe about the way they play is that they actually have some really talented footballers that can pass the ball well and play attractive footy. They are better than 'let's hoof or even throw the ball forward' in hope for a flick on, a mistake, or for the 8ft army giant that was up top Tuesday to nod it in. 3-4 seasons of being a hoof the ball forward has not got them promotion. So why not change??

[Jeff Hamnett AKA TSF]

Quality without results is pointless , Doughie.

 

He'll be turning in his grave reading your misquote.

Sorry, been thinking about that all day.

One of those rare players non football people know as a genius.

[Beano_ATMFC]

To be fair, Jeff, Doughie did correct his typo by replying to himself.

 

Johnno, I can't answer your (rhetorical) question, as Camberley aren't my club and I'm 200 miles away in any case. My point is that the way they set themselves up obviously works for them and has got them results. Maybe some of the players have adapted their own styles, curbing their individual flair in favour of the collective that is their team. I'm aware that sounds like hipster nonsense but there's a truth to it; how many managers at this level favour "two banks of four" over a bit of creativity in midfield? That's the same principle - organisation and a clear plan prioritised over individual skill.

 

It's up to Camberley Town to determine how happy (or not) they are with the club's current progress.

[Jeff Hamnett AKA TSF]

 "The game is about glory. It’s about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

 

Fair comment Beano,  It was about winning. Beating the other lot. But in style , with a flourish.

 

As Krooner says, Its in the eye of the beholder. Hence people supported Arsenal under Graham's 1-0 days.

Do the same people still support Wenger's more flowing Arsenal with no title since lager cost 3 quid?

[Jeff Hamnett AKA TSF]

yes Beano, I didn't look at page two.  Sorry to all and Doughie. 

[Beano_ATMFC]

 "The game is about glory. It’s about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

 

Fair comment Beano,  It was about winning. Beating the other lot. But in style , with a flourish.

 

As Krooner says, Its in the eye of the beholder. Hence people supported Arsenal under Graham's 1-0 days.

Do the same people still support Wenger's more flowing Arsenal with no title since lager cost 3 quid?

 

Great question. I can't answer it, of course!

 

Let me be clear; I would rather play the way my own club does now than adopt any other style. That is; to try to play decent football, with a predominantly young (and local) team. But, like most football people, I'm a pragmatist, rather than an idealist. Give me the scrappy, dull, 1-0 win where the goal goes in off the centre-forward's posterior over the brilliant but ultimately futile "moral victory" or "honourable defeat", both of which seem specific to this glorious nation of ours.

 

I think that (even if they wouldn't say so on here), most people would adopt the same attitude. Moral victories don't put points on the board. In the early 1990s, Nottingham Forest were "too good to go down" from the Premier League. They finished well adrift, despite the prettiness of their passing. 

 

I think what really bothers me is the hypocrisy. When you're a manager, or a club official, you take a win however it comes. When you lose, it's far too easy to hammer the referee, or the pitch, or the oppo's style of play. I wish people would actually say "you know what, Team X had a plan, they stuck to it for 90 minutes and it won them the game. Fair play to them." instead of knocking each other all the bloody time.  After all, if we all took the same approach to everything, we'd have nothing to talk / moan about.

[Krooner]

Nope no promotion but of course every other league in the land bar a Step 5 league we would have been promoted or in a play off for promotion.  Sadly 2nd is literally nowhere in the CCL or any other Step 5 side apart from the odd season that 2 actually get promoted.

 

I am always interested in JJ's views especially though as he genuinely made me laugh after our win at Knaphill in the league this season when in the very last minute we put a free kick into their box and scored from it.  He made it sound like we were the only team in the 93rd minute who would launch a free kick into the oppositions box to try and win a game.

 

Just out of interest Jonno how many league titles have you win in the CCL or above in your time as a player, coach and manager ?

 

I have watched Camberley for far too long and have seen some excellent passing teams and I have seen some poor teams some very poor teams and here I still am supporting them.  I want to watch my team win.  It is a competitive game and we are there to win and anyone that says otherwise is a fool

[Bronco]

Camberley Town are the best team I have seen this season. Went long when they needed to, passed us to death at times. Got all the angles covered, and covered well as far as I'm concerned.

[johnnojudo]

Very last minute Kroons?? Granted it was the last minute but it had been done for the previous 93mins. So it's not like you changed tactics as it was the last minute!

 

And just the one CCL title in my first year at Ash Utd back 1998/9 I think. Proper drought since then though

[Chris Clapham]

Friday Result - Epsom & Ewell 0-2 Westfield

[Krooner]

Very last minute Kroons?? Granted it was the last minute but it had been done for the previous 93mins. So it's not like you changed tactics as it was the last minute!

 

And just the one CCL title in my first year at Ash Utd back 1998/9 I think. Proper drought since then though

2nd in 99/00 and 3rd in 00/01. Played some amazing footy and hardly any hoofs.

 

I admire your loyalty Kroons. I didn't want to get into this again. Forget results for a moment..... Do you like the style of play Camberley use of hoof the ball up the pitch which is clearly what they do as most posters on here would agree?? Put results aside.... Do you like watching it?

Feel free to look back on the game Jonno.  You slated us for putting the ball in the box when 99% of clubs would have done the same.

 

So 1 title in 17 years.  Was that the day of Mitchell and Joyce at Ash ?  Remember it well if it were.  2 big strong lads who Ash hit early because it would stick and they would play off them in the final 3rd

 

some games I enjoy others I do not.  Probably the same as most fans.  I actually want to see action in the penalty area and Camberley give me that.  the fact is you are incorrect re our style of play as we do play direct however they are balls played into people for others to play off them.  Hang on did I mention that style above

[johnnojudo]

I can assure you it was not hit the ball long or anywhere close to Camberleys style of play. Usually played 4-3-3 system and the football was decent. Both Joyce and Mitch were not tall.

 

You can dress up your style of play as much as you like Kroons. There are few teams or in particular, posters on here that will describe Camberleys style of play anything other than 'long ball', or 'hoof'.

It works for you and that's clear. But to describe it any other way is you in denial. Better off just accepting that's what it is.

Personally, I couldn't play for, or coach a team that played that way. Yes, do it with 10 to go if you're losing, but not for 90mins. Would bore me and id have nothing to coach on a Thursday night

[Krooner]

I can assure you it was not hit the ball long or anywhere close to Camberleys style of play. Usually played 4-3-3 system and the football was decent. Both Joyce and Mitch were not tall.

 

You can dress up your style of play as much as you like Kroons. There are few teams or in particular, posters on here that will describe Camberleys style of play anything other than 'long ball', or 'hoof'.

It works for you and that's clear. But to describe it any other way is you in denial. Better off just accepting that's what it is.

Personally, I couldn't play for, or coach a team that played that way. Yes, do it with 10 to go if you're losing, but not for 90mins. Would bore me and id have nothing to coach on a Thursday night

Neither Joyce or Mitch were tall. Doesn't mean you didn't him them early.  Bloody terrified defenders for many a year those two so nothing wrong with striking fear into your opponents by hitting them early.

 

Others do indeed say that Jonno  and others say otherwise incl in this thread  Opinions.  I don't agree with what you say and as much as you say it I still will not agree.  that is the great thing about football.

[Weeble]

Arsenal play too much football and won't win the league

Camberley play long passes and won't win the league

Does it really matter, style of play is down to the manager and if it works happy dayz if it don't then it's a meeting with the chairman

For a club if u win every game 1-0 and win the league do you honestly think anyone at the club would worry about how it was achieved

I love football on the deck but at this level with so many pitches being shite sometimes a long pass is the only way and if it works so be it

[Jeff Hamnett AKA TSF]

Play to your strengths.

 

I recall Spurs playing 3 centre halves under Venables because they were better players than otherswe had.

Ardiles played a front five pretty much. Who would have put Klinsmann on the bench because you wanted an  extra defensive midfielder?

 

Saw a Forest side under Clough beat Spurs 1-0 I think with a defence and midfield only.

 

Cant recall what that bald headed european fella with his "travel card to Europe"  did cos we lost and he got sacked.

 

Also saw a Sunderland side under Peter Reid play row z football for a nil nil which I think we won.

 

Point is, if your style is successful, you get to keep doing it for longer than if it loses as Weeble says.