V Cirencester (Away) 16th Jan 16

[HorshamRebel]

Would it have been unnecessary travelling HR?

 

With an 11am inspection the game was always going to be postponed.

If I travelled to get there for 3pm like you, then no. However I needed to leave by 11am to do pre match 'stuff' so yes it would have been.

Edited January 16, 2016 by HorshamRebel

[Reading Rebel]

Can't comment on the state of the pitch at Cirencester but it seems that games are much likely to be postponed now than they were twenty plus years ago. Is this a reflection of greater weather extremes or health and safety going mad. Bit of both perhaps. Eventually, football will have to be a summer sport but then excessive sun exposure will be the issue.

 

 

Health and safety, compensation culture.

[Reading Rebel]

M.P.R can i remind you about the heat its 8pm and 28 degrees ha ha ha..

Another game that for Eddie will be back for at least.

 

 

Far too hot and humid RD.

 

Much better to work up a decent sweat     

[David Carpenter]

Firstly how do people know what the state of the pitch was without being there? Yesterday's forecast for Cirencester showed freezing conditions until 9/10 am with a subsequent temperature rise to no greater than 3 C. With the preceding wet weather during the week it is surely not too much of a surprise that the game had to be called off. Turning to the question of health and safety I worked in the construction industry from September 1962 - June 2013. When I started the position with deaths and injuries was truly appalling. With the advent of modern health and safety legislation there has been a marked improvement although of course there is still room for further gains. One of the ongoing difficulties is the enactment of the regulations by people with little real practical knowledge of the intent and purpose of the same. That being said the regulations and allied legislation such as COSHH (Control of Substances Hazardous to Health) are of  the upmost necessity. Many years ago precast tunnel linings were caulked using cement impregnated asbestos yarn (!!). This was eventually and rightly banned from use but not unfortunately before many people developed and died from melomenia.

[Sir Rebel1965]

It is Melomaina cancer, and it is impregnated asbestos cement.

 

The HASAW act 1974 (act of law - what people (both directors and employees) get prosecuted under) was the first step in reforming health and safety legislation, putting the emphasis on both the employer and the employee to work together to address H&S in the workplace, with the employer having to provide a safe working environment, with safe systems of work, supervision, training, and where required health monitoring; whilst the employee was responsible for not putting themselves or others at risk and working with the employer to reduce risk.  Both parties had the additional duty to not put others outside the company or visiting at risk through their actions.

 

The 1992 work place regs (regulation which quotes what must be done to meet the act of parliament (HASAW act)) were introduced through European legislation to harmonize the law in its member states, and through the Management regs there was a requirement to carry out risk assessments,  to reduce the risk to what is reasonably practicable.  The problem with this is that some people have taken this to mean reduce all risks.

 

If you applied the "reduce all risks" scenario you would not drive a car or fly, you would not have any stairs or lifts, not allow any smoking, drinking, sex ....... .Therefore you need to apply common sense to the equation and understand there is an element of risk to everything we do in life and that at times we have to carry out tasks/activities where there is risk involved to obtain the desired outcome.  Should Rugby be a non-contact sport where the players can only move around the pitch at walking speed - the players accept the risks or they would not play (however H&S will soon make the scrum a thing of the past)

 

If the use of tobacco and alcohol were to be strictly followed under COSHH they would not be allowed and banned.

 

The problem is that no one is prepared to take risks any more and the culture has become risk adverse.

[3spirit]

Very interesting debate on here and David Carpenter and Rebel1965 have both raised very good points and in my view,neither are wrong.

 

At the end of the day,we have to hope that the officials know what they are doing and have to accept their judgement,whether we like the verdict or not. 

 

To be honest I don't mind a few Slough games being postponed,so that we can get our full quota of players back from injury/suspension, and other teams can catch up on the backlog of games they have on us, so we can get a truer picture of where we stand in the league table. 

[staines_rebel_Jr]

Very interesting debate on here and David Carpenter and Rebel1965 have both raised very good points and in my view,neither are wrong.

 

At the end of the day,we have to hope that the officials know what they are doing and have to accept their judgement,whether we like the verdict or not. 

 

To be honest I don't mind a few Slough games being postponed,so that we can get our full quota of players back from injury/suspension, and other teams can catch up on the backlog of games they have on us, so we can get a truer picture of where we stand in the league table. 

 

Players can only come back from suspensions if games are being played.

[3spirit]

Players can only come back from suspensions if games are being played.

 

Ha  ha  ha ! Well spotted SRJ !  Silly me. 

[David Carpenter]

Thank you Rebel 1965 for the correct spelling and giving the full history and background to current legislation. I agree and understand the process of Risk Assessment and the aim to reduce risk as far as is practically possible. We are in essence agreed that things are sometimes taken too far. It is for this reason I mentioned the enactment of the regulations by people with little or no real practical knowledge of the intention and purpose of said regulations. In the case I quoted the yarn was bolstered into the lining joints with a great deal of unventilated dust emanating. One aspect of the regulations is to remove as far as is possible the hazard and this is what eventually happened with this material.  

[Irishadrian]

The cancer associated with asbestos is mesothelioma  I think the other two suggestions are incorrect  unless someone has a link.

[Sir Rebel1965]

Melomania Cancer is a skin based form which I believe David was eluding to as there would have been the risk of the wet concrete laced with asbestos coming into contact with skin.

 

Yes Mesothelioma is as well another form of asbestos based cancer, and there is also the dangers of the concrete/cement dust itself acting as an irritant to both skin and the respiratory tract and lungs.

 

The building industry has managed to banish some of it's older problem materials such as asbestos, lead pipes/flashing , creosotes, wall papers with lead and arsenics colourings and many other nasty's, but it is still yet to see the impact of other materials is uses such as MDF and the new organic and solvent based adhesives it is now using, as these if incorrectly controlled will lead to long term health issues.

 

The building industry has done much to improve its controls compared to when David joined in the 60's but there will still be rouge contractors trying to cut costs and ignore the controls at the cost of their workforce.

 

 

 

I blame the Americans for their ambulance chasing culture which lead to yesterdays game being called off!

[A Rebel and a Saint]

Wow...someone get over to Potters Bar and help get this game on on Tuesday, this place is going crazy without football....

[HorshamRebel]

The craziness is spreading like cancer

[David Carpenter]

Rebel 1965 has once again gone to the trouble of detailing the significant moves in the construction industry and I apologise for my lack of spelling correctness. He also points out that there is a continuing legacy arising from the use of hazardous materials. So whilst I have already stated that there can be some misuse of the regulations nevertheless it should be accepted that the regulations are necessary to ensure that that there are continuing improvements and of course the rogue operators are dealt with. Since this thread started with the postponement of the Cirencester game let us hope that we see some action this week. COYR

[Brighton on holiday]

My mate was decapitated at work because the boss didnt put a safety catch on to save £50 everytime the crane was used. Health & safety gone mad

[David Carpenter]

Precisely

[David Carpenter]

Bloody insomnia! Just looked at the weather forecast for Potters Bar for Tuesday. Unfortunately the temperature prediction is at or below freezing for most of the day with a brief marginal rise to just above freezing in the middle period. So it looks like Health and Safety Regulations (or just plain common sense) will mean that this game will have to be called off. COYR (hopefully for the Hitchin game).

[Manor Park Rebel]

David Carpenter, if you had read my original post carefully, you would have noticed that I stated, 'can't comment on the state of the pitch at Cirencester............' so, I wasn't claiming to know what it was like without being there. As it was my post that seemed to start this interesting discussion about health and safety, just thought I'd put the record straight. Can't wait for the season to get started again.

[David Carpenter]

Manor Park Rebel I did read your post carefully; my comments were directed at a following post which seemed to complain about health and safety regulations. Surely we are all agreed that we cannot expect players to be placed at risk.