Home Attendance Figures

[littlehampton]

Like me, I guess many Towners were stunned by the size of the crowd (2,249) At Champion Hill on Saturday. Dulwich Hamlet (formed in 1893) are a famous, long established, well supported club, who regularly deliver four figure home attendances. They are 108 years older than Town, so have had plenty of time to develop and expand their fan base.

What Town have achieved, on and off the field, since the club was formed in 2001, is little short of amazing. Yet, despite numerous initiatives, and lots of effort, our own average home attendance figure is, I believe, between 350-400. Whilst this is respectable, compared with many other clubs in the Ryman Premier Division, it highlights the difference in income, when competing with clubs like Dulwich, and Maidstone Utd last season.

As a subject of ongoing discussion, it would be very interesting to hear other peoples views on this topic, and any ideas on what can be done, in the Enfield area, to generate more interest and support, and boost attendances at the Queen Elizabeth II Stadium.



 

[lovely stuff]

Dulwich's attendances seem to have increased by nearly 50% in the last few years..No doubt this has a lot to do with the 'gentrification'' of the area in question.A demographic have moved in that is typically more likely to pay to watch non-league football.Whereas the borough of Enfield has the opposite demographic,with the  typical casual fan leaving the area,rather than moving in..Dulwich Hamlet supporters are also unique in being politically active,which may well be attractive to certain casual supporter from outside the clubs borough,as well as in.

 

To be honest most of Enfield boroughs 400,000 residents would not be interested in attending our matches ,even if they could get in for free.Just like Spurs,you will find a good percentage of our fans are 'former' residents of the borough rather than current residents.Myself included..Good to see younger local fans being integrated into the fanbase though. (via the ultras)

 

I'm sure our crowds will increase with every league promotion,but that is easier said than done.Any sort of local promotion or incentives to bring in local casual support doesn't seem to have much effect on bringing new supporters into the fold.

 

Enfield Town fc offers good attractive football at a reasonable price.In comfortable surroundings,with good facilities and amenities.We also offer great car parking and easy access in and out of the ground.Don't know what else we can do?

[4wembleyfinals]

Unfortunately it is probably unfair to compare our attendances with Hamlet.

In around South London they have had a draw and reputation far above anything

even the former "E's" achieved in he 1980's when one national journalist

described them as the non-league side of the decade. Even then at their height

Enfield only averaged crowds of 500/600.

 

In the late 40's I was taken to the Old Champion Hill ground to see DH in the FA Q-Final of the Amateur Cup against Bishop Auckland the crowd was about 23,000....

yes 23,000. This was not even a record!!!!!

 

If we accept the change in the makeup of the local population then a current

crowd of 5 to 8% of the above figure is about normal. Consequently, 300/400

reflects quite well against our more resourceful days.

 

How does one improve crowds is another question, obviously success tends to boost attendance, also marketing and incentives. Have you looked at the charges that DH made last Saturday. Concessions were £2 cheaper and children under 12, with an

adult, free. This is what boost crowds, people see the figures and say there must

be something good going on down there. Next week you may have another 50-100.

[lovely stuff]

To suggest the Dulwich were a bigger more successful team than Enfield fc (and had a far bigger draw and reputation ) is quite a statement (and wrong on my opinion,at least from the 1950's) . Enfield Fc were at the very top of non-league football for a long time. How many Dulwich players have represented England verses those from Enfield fc?? Enfield were regularly getting crowds of over 700 for long periods of time..Dulwich have had spells of very good crowds,but also spend a lot of the time until recently with crowds of around 500-600 also.Lets not forget Enfield's massive crowds of the distant past.And our 35,000 at White hart Lane and the various 60,000+'s at wembley are more than a match for anything Dulwich had.I think you will find that our silverware is a match for any non-league team professing to be bigger than Enfield fc.I certainly wouldn't have put Dulwich even in the top five of rivals in that respect.At least not in modern times.

[4wembleyfinals]

I am sorry lovely stuff you missed my point. Before you go off half cocked read what is written. I am not suggesting they were a

better club especially as my best friend ( G R H Soul) negotiated Enfield FC in to the Football League in 1986 only to be shafted by the Conference league and Northern Div 4 League clubs. You

obviously didn't note what I said about the article in 1986.

 

My point was that even allowing for all their exploits The " E " never attracted

the crowds that others. did on a weekly basis. Fortunately, we had benefactor who

did at the time financially support the club as well as ran the Starlight rooms a money maker unsurpassed.

 

You don't have to tell me about our past I was there and travelled

all over the country. AS for the FA Cup I was at Brighton, Aldershot, Leicester, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon, Torquay, Cardiff,

Peterborough, Blyth Spartans and both Barnsley matches. Were you???? I have probably seen more Enfield games then you ever will unless you reach my

age. By the way, the game at Tottenham was the largest crowd that year at White

Hart Lane due to that fact only 3 sides of the ground was used.

 

It still doesn't alter the fact, that even, then the core of Enfield supporters minute number The towns inhabitants even though we

had such a reputation.

 

By the way to add to your knowledge the Cup final at Wembley

against Skelmersdale was close to 100k and the replay at Maine Road (60K). If you replays and lost finals I have seen 8!!!!

 

If you are going to go on another tirade please do a little more

research. I saw the figures at the time, how? that is for me to

know. Let us just say it came from the Top!!!

[lovely stuff]

I think you are forgetting that nobody in Non-League football attracted big crowds in the 70's and 80's,when Enfield had major success. (That includes Dulwich).

[4wembleyfinals]

I am sorry, LS, that you still don't get it, but then it not important!!! Since my initial comment was really

to emphasis that the towns' people have never really supported their local team, considering the size of the populous, about 250k in 1965, we have to accept that it will never change. Only high days will bring them out. 

 

I think that mining towns like Blyth, Crook Town and Barrow  would query your assumption  crowds

were poor in the 70 and 80's. Did you ever go to Kettering, Macclesfield, Boston in that period.

 

But then scoring points of one another achieves nothing although your Ben Franklin's quote is some what disingenuous considering his actions during the course of the " Colonial War" but then politicians never change. 

 

Good night and let us hope for win on Saturday.

[andyetfc]

I thought this was an Enfield Town FC forum page. No point in looking back at what EFC did as that has gone. We all need to look forward and do the best we can. I have suggested many times that children should be allowed in free of charge with a full fee paying adult. What response did I receive from some? We don't want to be seen as a crèche! Children of today are the future of the club. It's not rocket science.

[Enfield United]

Dulwich are not surrounded by two of the countries current top 4 who are steeped in history and success.

The beggining EFC's demise and ETCC's formation was during the start of Football being fashionable with Sky money, live games etc boosting interest, however EFC were at the start of their demise, playing outside the borough and having a new club in a new shared home at Brimsdown, probably the worse place to start (out of site out of mind for 10 years) although I accept we had to start somewhere.

The current Dulwich is served by 100,00s of new flats, from developments, house conversions, boosting the local population in a ever rising young affluent area. Saturday's attendance included Rio Ferdinand and Michael Flanagan,increasing its 'coolness' to be part of the club, not to mention the free advertising sainsburys gives it when every person in the area probably goes shopping there.

Dulwich also have a thriving organised youth section, something we need to focus more on.

 

Saying all this, we have been a success in our own rights, we are progressing slowly, have a young board of directors, a young ambitious, hungry driven manager and outside income is coming in (I believe) more than ever before, whence our established status in the RPL.

 

A promotion will give us, in my opinion, an increase of 50% in attendances as the entertainment has more to offer the local Spurs/Arsenal loving football fan as well as attracting the interest of new supporters.

 

What would be fantastic is we could get a retiring Pro Footballer to join us, a retiring Defoe, Crouch or Kevin Phillips like player, who want to keep fit and playing without the huge pressures or motivation of money. Additionally, some interest from Spurs and a regular pre season friendly would be helpful to getting fans through the gate.

 

As an activity, we should be giving free vouchers to schools allowing U12-14s in for free with a full paying adult, it's only giving up a £1 but a good marketing tool.

 

Saying all the above, success breeds success. Dulwich's crowds are up as they have also been top 4 for about 2 years, we had gates of 800+ V Witham+ Hitchin lately when there was an additional interest.

 

We are not far away from 500+ gates, but it's a progressive thing sourced from the history mentioned above. IMO

[andyetfc]

EU. It's not giving up a £1.00. It's gaining an extra £9.00 from the adult coming in who usually doesn't turn up.

[lovely stuff]

I am sorry, LS, that you still don't get it, but then it not important!!! Since my initial comment was really

to emphasis that the towns' people have never really supported their local team, considering the size of the populous, about 250k in 1965, we have to accept that it will never change. Only high days will bring them out. 

 

I think that mining towns like Blyth, Crook Town and Barrow  would query your assumption  crowds

were poor in the 70 and 80's. Did you ever go to Kettering, Macclesfield, Boston in that period.

 

But then scoring points of one another achieves nothing although your Ben Franklin's quote is some what disingenuous considering his actions during the course of the " Colonial War" but then politicians never change. 

 

Good night and let us hope for win on Saturday.

 

I don't think we are that far apart.I also agree that the people of Enfield have not supported their local club in the numbers the club has deserved (for large parts of its history).But the same can also be said of the majority of successful non-league teams in the modern era.Wealdstone were only getting 700-800 in their great spell's in the 80's..Barnet were only getting the same sort of crowds also in the 70's and 80's.The only point i'm arguing is the suggestion that Dulwich is such a big draw that they are always guaranteed bigger crowds.Yes,they have had good spells in the past where attendances have been big.They are currently going through a period where their attendance are very good.But alternatively they have spend many decades where their attendances have been no better/ worse than those in Enfield..Point in fact: I have watched Enfield play away at Dulwich many time over the last 30 years and until very recently the crowd has always been in the 350-750 mark.

[CD Towner]

Andy, that's exactly the point. £9 up rather than a couple of quid down!

[andyetfc]

ETFC had over 800 for the FA cup game against Hitchin. They are out there. It's just that the club has to make it attractive for those floating supporters to come back week after week.

[littlehampton]

Guys, thanks to you all for taking the trouble to respond on this very important topic. Must say I thought, when I started reading the earlier exchanges, between lovely stuff and 4wembleyfinals, that I would be held responsible for starting 'world war 3'! Joking apart, it is healthy and reassuring to have open discussion on this key issue, as our club does need to attract more people to matches at the Queen Elizabeth II Stadium, to generate more income through the turnstiles, and spend within the ground.

 

You can never have too many new ideas, or initiatives, for increasing revenue. But, a good idea is only a good idea if it is implemented and works.

Andy, I don't know, and can't understand, why your perfectly logical proposal that 'children should be allowed in free with a full fee paying adult' has never been taken up. As you rightly point out, they are the future of our club. We have plenty of space to accommodate them, and we really should reach out and actively promote this idea through the official website, local press, local schools, social media, etc.

 

A number of ideas have already been suggested as to how our club can increase existing home attendances. No doubt a number more will follow. Gate receipts have a great impact on a clubs budget. Success on the pitch has to be funded. Therefore, unless a club has a 'sugar daddy', which we don't, we have to develop existing revenue streams, and by the implementation of sound new ideas.

[4wembleyfinals]

Thanks L'hampton for your summation, you have possibly put the position a little more delicately than I have. In between our extremes you will see that we did

suggest that there is a need whereby the club could Market its self a little

better. Although,it goes without saying "Success" is the easiest thing to sell.

 

Don't worry, only malicious differences create wars, in our own way I firmly believe

L/Stuff and I still have a common desire, that is to see the Club go onwards and

upwards !!!!

 

Anyway, to some of us we have already been in World War 3 , it was called the

Korean War or as some historians named it the National Service Forgotten War.

[littlehampton]

Thanks 4wembleyfinals for your reply. A bit of banter is never out of place, and everybody is entitled to an opinion, even if it is not always right. Like yourself, I have a lifetime of great memories, from those wonderful Southbury Road days, when Enfield were at the forefront of non-league football. They will never be forgotten, but things have moved on, and the new club is doing fantastically well, and we are lucky to have some talented, very capable people, doing an excellent job, driving it forward, as you say, onwards and upwards.

The more interest and support our club can attract from the Enfield community, by increasing home attendances and commercially, the faster it will grow. Which is why this topic, and the need for new ideas, is so important to future success.


 

[4wembleyfinals]

L/H your words were greatly appreciated and perhaps we should

now put this topic to bed, until the next time....QED!!

 

( Actually, on review, I actually saw 8 major Cup finals including

replays and those we lost )

[littlehampton]

Note that todays attendance against Met Police is 333. On a freezing cold day I guess that is quite respectable, particularly as the Met won't have brought many supporters along. Well done everyone who braved the cold to support the Town this afternoon.

[OldTowner]

Met Police "appeared to have the 3 " so 330 on a very cold day and with Spurs at home was a good respectful number.

We need to hit the 500 as an average number as we push up the league.

[littlehampton]

Agree Old Towner. As we both know, a considerable amount of time and effort has already been spent, on a number of admirable initiatives, aimed at increasing home attendances at the Queen Elizabeth II Stadium.

 

It would be nice to think we could regularly attract average home gates of 500+ as we challenge for the play-offs and promotion, but it won't be easy.

 

By any measure, our Club has made giant strides forward over the past decade, and continues to be a great ambassador for Enfield and the local community. It deserves a much higher level of support, from the Enfield public, but in the real world you don't always get what you deserve.

 

Success breeds success, but can't be taken for granted. This topic has already attracted quite a bit of interest, and it is far too important to pass it by, or simply put it on the back burner and forget all about it. It needs everyone's input of thoughts, ideas, recommendations, so that no stone is left unturned, and we as a Club do everything possible to maximise local interest and support, by implementing the best of the ideas put forward.

 

What do you think?