United States v Russia

[Eastside Urchin]

Well seems to be heating up,what do you reckon the outcome???

[cup of tea]

They've both got planes out there, they're both in close proximately , they both have different agendas.

Hopefully common sense will prevail but there's a risk we could have an 'incident' or two.

[cup of tea]

Obama could take Putin in a fight easy.

[Big J R]

The Ruski's are ramping it up because they don't want to risk losing their most southerly naval port and effectively losing any control.  They are still backing a ruthless dictator in Syria.  That's how they make friends.

[cup of tea]

Totally agree - they've been backing Assad for a long time.

[romford boy]

Totally agree - they've been backing Assad for a long time.

We helped get rid of Saddam, and the situation is now far worse for ordinary Iraqis. Putin put troops into the Ukraine after a democratically elected pro Russian Prime Minister was overthrown illegally under international law. Now Russia and the USA are sticking their noses into another nations business, (understandably IMO) and Obama accuses Russia of killing indiscriminately.The UK and America indiscriminately killed several hundred thousand innocent civilians in Iraq and that apparently is OK according to the political elite.

 

In the UK we now find ourselves in the bizarre situation of a potential PM being vilified because he hates war, and would refuse to press the fabled nuclear button that would kill possibly millions of innocent soles. At the same time we trust the warmonger politicians with the future of mankind even though we cant even trust them to fill in their expenses form correctly or honestly. 

 

Its a funny old world, and I think understandable that many of us prefer plants and animals to most people.

[cup of tea]

The Iraq war was disgusting, it wasn't justifiable and should have never happened. It's opened a can of worms out in the middle east which wasn't stable even before that.

 

The situation with Islamic State needs to be resolved, we need to win the propaganda war, make sure that we counter the use of the Internet as a tool for IS and convince people of the massive abuse of the Muslim religion that IS stands for. Think Assad's tactics to hold onto power in Syria has allowed so many innocent people to get killed and has resulted in the mass exodus of people out of that country.

 

If we get to the situation that nuclear weapons gets used against us then I'm not sure how much of a world will be left to be honest. Firing weapons in retaliation? Not sure how that will help but if we can maintain a minimal threat it may stop it from happening. Both the UK and Germany had stockpiles of chemical weapons left over from WWII, both kept them in case the other side used them, neither did.

Edited October 3, 2015 by cup of tea

[romford boy]

The Iraq war was disgusting, it wasn't justifiable and should have never happened. It's opened a can of worms out in the middle east which wasn't stable even before that.

 

The situation with Islamic State needs to be resolved, we need to win the propaganda war, make sure that we counter the use of the Internet as a tool for IS and convince people of the massive abuse of the Muslim religion that IS stands for. Think Assad's tactics to hold onto power in Syria has allowed so many innocent people to get killed and has resulted in the mass exodus of people out of that country.

 

If we get to the situation that nuclear weapons gets used against us then I'm not sure how much of a world will be left to be honest. Firing weapons in retaliation? Not sure how that will help but if we can maintain a minimal threat it may stop it from happening. Both the UK and Germany had stockpiles of chemical weapons left over from WWII, both kept them in case the other side used them, neither did.

We was still developing chemical weapons until the late 80s at Porton Down, and considering the UKs record of aggressive action against other nations I would be more concerned about being nuked by someone retaliating after we had "fired" first.  

[cup of tea]

At least we stopped making chemical weapons - I think the military are reluctant to give up their toys in this country.

 

I don't think we'd ever fire first, why would we? - not unless Farage somehow got into power! Don't get me wrong, I would sooner spend the money on other things. The other question would be if Russia fired nuclear weapons into Europe, would the US as part of NATO fire back? I think they would.

 

As for Syria, I despair when I see countless innocent people have/are being slaughtered but do we in the West have the right to interfere (or Russia for that matter)? . It's not going to end well, there's no scenario I can think of where things are going to settle down , just like Iraq.

[romford boy]

At least we stopped making chemical weapons - I think the military are reluctant to give up their toys in this country.

 

I don't think we'd ever fire first, why would we? - not unless Farage somehow got into power! Don't get me wrong, I would sooner spend the money on other things. The other question would be if Russia fired nuclear weapons into Europe, would the US as part of NATO fire back? I think they would.

 

As for Syria, I despair when I see countless innocent people have/are being slaughtered but do we in the West have the right to interfere (or Russia for that matter)? . It's not going to end well, there's no scenario I can think of where things are going to settle down , just like Iraq.

Why on earth would Russia want to Nuke us, unless of course they believed some nutcase Prime Minister of ours was going to bomb them first. IMO its much safer not to have the things in the first place, and spend the money saved on worthwhile projects. 

[Big J R]

............ and after last nights news, it looks like the latest American air-strike has hit a Red-Cross hospital, killing staff and patients.

 

I wonder how they'll try and talk their way out of that one ?

[romford boy]

............ and after last nights news, it looks like the latest American air-strike has hit a Red-Cross hospital, killing staff and patients.

 

I wonder how they'll try and talk their way out of that one ?

Its obvious that when Russia kills innocent civilians its indiscriminate murder, and when we or the the USA do it its an unfortunate accident.

[cup of tea]

They are as bad as each other, that's for sure. The whole situation in Syria has come around because the US are wary of Syria's strong links with Russia and would like regime change and Russia wants to keep the status quo for the same reason. As usual, innocent people get caught up in the middle. Unfortunately, IS have thrown a spanner in the works so that puts another equation into the mix.

 

The only thing I will say in the US's defence is that they seem to be more accountable, not much solace, I grant you.

[cup of tea]

Looks like Russia are playing the US for fools - They are bombing Assad's enemies and getting away with it and the US are not getting involved for fear of escalation. Putin's played a blinder (of course innocent people get caught in the middle as usual).

[romford boy]

Looks like Russia are playing the US for fools - They are bombing Assad's enemies and getting away with it and the US are not getting involved for fear of escalation. Putin's played a blinder (of course innocent people get caught in the middle as usual).

The first casualty of war is the truth, and if Putin didn't exist the west would have invented yet another Russian monster. I wonder if Putin is any worse than Blair, Bush, or many of the other warmongers we seem to elect on a far to regular basis.

[cup of tea]

Don't start me on those two, absolutely disgraceful. If I believed in Heaven and Hell, I know which was those two will be going.

Edited October 9, 2015 by cup of tea

[Eastside Urchin]

Putin to me seems like a decent bloke,yes there are many things that he and his government do that I don't agree with,like their policies towards gays and they do tend to be very harsh on immigrants but then again they do have a big problem with Chechnya rebels still and the fallout from that so that's maybe more paranoia than a true hardline tactic,plus let's not forget that this is all still quite new for Russia as a country in its present form.

They are still learning as a democratic country

[Big J R]

Looks like Russia are playing the US for fools - They are bombing Assad's enemies and getting away with it and the US are not getting involved for fear of escalation. Putin's played a blinder (of course innocent people get caught in the middle as usual).

 

 

Yes  -  They ARE bombing Assad's enemies, but only because they want to keep him in power in Syria, which the American's DON'T want.

 

Although I despise Assad on his human rights record, the real problem is, IF he does fall, who takes over the country ?????  Sometimes, it's better the devil you know......

[cup of tea]

Fair point Big JR, didn't work in Iraq

[Big J R]

....and now 'Assad the Dictator' has crept quitely out of Syria for the first time in 4 years to Russia to personally thank 'Vlad The Impaler' for helping him wipe out anybody who stands in his way of holding power.

 

No wonder the Yanks are dismaid. Cameron must make a stand !

 

Another step closer to a world war ??

Edited October 22, 2015 by Big J R