Sweet Chariot Parade - Help please

[Nigel D]

esg, parsons green, 1984, ICF's finest hour against Chelsea, is that what your referring too?well that's what it says in a book I read LOL.

[Guest]

I'm with the critics of all this rugby world cup crap. As pointed out elsewhere hardly anyone plays rugby globally, and in most countries where it is played it's the preserve of the middle classes.

That's why we've had to put up with all this ridiculous hype for the last few weeks. To call it the greatest sporting achievement of this country since '66 is stomach turning. Surely if we won the cricket world cup it wouldn't have had anyway near the same level of coverage despite the obvious comparisons of the two sports i.e. played by, and for posh t*ats.

I can't wait for the foxhunting world cup parade myself.

[Urchin Boy]

Yer ESG ! I Am As It Goes ! Funnier Than You Anyways

 

Anyway I Weren't Trying To Be Funny I Was Just Stating The Facts !

[mala_D]

Rugby a middle class preserve?

Do you include the likes of Beaumont, Moore, Johnson, &c., as middle class? I think not, myself.

Whilst rugby has not been wholly adopted by comprehensive schools, there are clubs around in which "ordinary" kids can play.

Similarly with cricket.

There really is no such thing as a working class now, anyway! Most have been incorporated into a broad "middle class" strata of society. Those underneath, the lumpenproletariat [as Marx defined them] are the wasters, scum bags, crooks, and general filth that previously gave the working-classes a bad name. [Anyone seen the film The Martins starring Cathy Burke and Lee Evans? You know the sort!]

Now with tennis...there may be an element of "middle-class exclusivity"...but even that's changing...gradually.

[Guest]

You live in a dream world Maladroit. Perhaps leafy Essex is some kind of middle class utopia, but to suggest there is no working class anymore is palpably absurd and would suggest that you have bought in to the spin of successive tory/labour governments.This country has never been more divided economically and socially in modern times and to describe those that don't fit into your definition of middle classness as malingerers etc is hateful, right wing drivel.

 

Oh, and quoting northern rugby players hardly proves your point, they have a middle class up north too you know. Bill Beaumont's stamping ground of Lytham St. Annes for example is one of the most dreary middle class hell holes i've ever visited.

[mala_D]

No! Macca. You've missed the point. Here are 4...

 

1: The country IS massively divided - that is absolutely right! We agree on that; and if you knew my social and economic background I think you would withdraw your insulting comment.

 

2: I was stating that the term "working class" has become anachronistic. The phrase originated from the earliest days of the 19th C, and was probably MORE applicable to Britain up to ca. 1980s. The situation today is far more complex for society to be stratified into just three "classes". Even Marx recognised the "lumpenproletariat" - HIS phrase and definition not MINE!! They existed UNDER the Working-Class Proper (the Proletariat).

 

3: I speak as someone who has read and digested Das Kapital ( both vols), Communist Manifesto,The German Ideology &c; The State and Revolution & Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism (both Lenin), let alone the complete works of Gramsci; some Bakunin, let alone Fourier, Owen, and many other "left field" writers that you are probably familiar with too. I'm not writing this as a form of one-upmanship as it is very clear you are an intelligent,educated, and articulate person and would not stoop to condescend.

I only quote the above to show that your comment about me spouting "right-wing drivel" is grossly offensive. I am not a reconstructed lefty; I'm not even an unreconstructed tory. I know where I'm from...and I hate the fox-hunting, shooting, green welly fcukers with as much passion as you probably do.

But to claim that rugby is a "middle-class" preserve is misguided and "old fashioned".

Can we still claim that football is the preserve of the so-called "working-classes"??

When Posh and Becks have probably more money than Lord & Lady Muck the traditional distinction and definition of what constitutes "class" becomes very confused.

4: I reckon you and I would probably enjoy having a pint and getting on our soap-boxes together if we met eachother! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Mr Happy]

Winning the rugby world cup was a great achievement. you cannot really compare it to winning the football world cup though. It is no better but no worse an achievement. It is a different achievement. there are plenty of other great sporting achievements since 1966 as well. Steve Redgrave, Man U winning the treble, Foggerty, our Olympic teams (including para-olympics) etc etc.

 

We should all give credit where credit is due and stop knocking big achievements.

[mala_D]

Mr Happy - we agree again!

Never a truer word word was spoken. All English people should support any English team/competitor, whatever their sport. The Rugby World Cup gave me a big grin for a few days, which made a nice change from feeling depressed about unpaid bills etc!!

Why is it that certain elements of the "Left" see sport in such negative terms? They think that because you support your national team then you must be a raving racist, right-wing bovver boy. It's not right...and that's why the [***!!***] are pants!!!

 

[Urchin Boy]

Yer ! Although I'm A Massive Football Fan ! I Watch The Rugby For Enjoyment As I Play. I Watch The Cricket When It's On As I Play, And The Badminton And Table Tennis (Although We're Crap At Both). I Watch The Tennis Because I Like To Play ! I Think You Get The Jist And Plus People Should Want Our Country To Do Well !

[Mr Happy]

Quote:

maladroit said:
Mr Happy - we agree again!
Never a truer word word was spoken. All English people should support any English team/competitor, whatever their sport. The Rugby World Cup gave me a big grin for a few days, which made a nice change from feeling depressed about unpaid bills etc!!
Why is it that certain elements of the "Left" see sport in such negative terms? They think that because you support your national team then you must be a raving racist, right-wing bovver boy. It's not right...and that's why the [***!!***] are pants!!!

I nearly agree with you. I just cannot support the scum of Arsenal at any time. Mind you, I don't class them as English as Highbury was originally in the Arctic circle. A woolly mammoth did a massive dump and when the Ice Age hit, a glacier moved this dump down into the British Isles where it fianlly rested in North London and became known as Highbury!

[Guest]

Didn't mean to offend Maladroit, misread your comments as Basildon Man style lunacy.

In reality I was shouting my head off at the tv throughout the RWC final and could barely watch in extra time. It was, as you say, a fantastic achievement.

My only problem was with the OTT hysteria that followed in the media. To draw a perhaps odd parallel, it was reminiscent of the week after Princess Di,um, died; If you weren't caught up in the thing and grief stricken and let it be known that you felt that way you ran the risk of being accused of all sorts of unpleasant things. It was sad in that 2 kids lost their mum but was hardly of consequence in any other way. But as I say, to say so was to be considered a heretic.

That's a rubbish comparison but I hope you get what I mean. England winning the RWC was tremendous but all context was quickly lost in the celebrations.

Can't beat a good bit of class war stirring though!

I'm with you all the way as far as what has happened to football as far as money is concerned, but as a sport it remains the easiest for kids to have access to playing. Therefore it remains the true national game.

Mine's a pint if you are buying by the way!