Smudge Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 After the breaking news today from the League Secretary that the F.A. have extended their deadline regarding lights till 2018,an urgent new change too promotion from Div 1 needs to be written into the League Constitution. The reason being that 5 Clubs out of 16 cannot meet the Standards required for promotion to Step 5,so they become possible blockers,to the other 11 Clubs who have the Ground Grading,this cannot be right surely.In my opinion,the same rule that applies in the Surrey Elite League should be proposed and adopted at the AGM whenever that is? Finish in the top 5,WITH THE CORRECT FACILITIES YOU GET PROMOTED if Clubs above you without the Correct Facilities hold a Promotion place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 A good suggestion, give the teams with the facilities a good chance for promotion. Even make it top six, then if by chance the top five are the teams without the grade at least one club would be promoted. For reserve team or teams in the future their position must not be taken into account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big J R Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Sounds about right to me too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E&E Rich Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Two things here. 1) Are the CCL actually allowed to adopt that rule? If not, then it saves us all a lot of time arguing the pros and cons here. but...... 2) If they are allowed to do it and it were proposed, we could improve Tel's suggestion by just taking the top three eligible clubs rather than a specific number. That of course would leave the Premier Division at a definite 22 for the foreseeable future which might not be what everyone wants, while there is also the possibility of a club coming up from, say, eighth place if the five of the top seven were ineligible. Is that really what we want, to lose a club of a high standard like (using this years examples) a Hanworth or Chertsey just to promote a midtable Step Six side. Sometimes we look to promote for promotion's sake, but whilst I understand the rule being put in place to cater for the Reserve teams that come in, I'm not sure we should extend it further than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Rich why have you got this obsession with a 20 team League?The last time that occured in the CCL was 17 years ago.There is strength in numbers surely. Chertsey and Hanworth would of been relegated under your 20 team proposal.But more importantly the blockers saved their day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big J R Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You can please some of the people some of the time, BUT........ That's what makes constructive debate on here so interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milner Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The comments on here have been interesting , as i have been asked by a few members on here and also locally i would like to put a fact right about my club Horlsey fc as most of you know we had a fantastic season winning the treble the only thing that spoilt it was that we could not get promoted. We definitely wanted to go up but as the rules NOW state you need lights in before promotion, we had no chance it certainly wasn't a case of us not wanting it. We had our planning passed at the end of january for the lights after backwards and forwards with the local council so it was too late too apply to go up the for the end of december deadline .The next thing was the finance we would not have been in a position to buy lights before the start of the forthcoming season 15/16 .Alan constable has been very helpful to us and the other bits we need doing are minimal we will be applying this season and hope to have lights up by the start of next. The next thing for us though is to have to go and do it again which as you know will be a hard task, i know Balham are groundsharing at Cobham as they want to get up top the CC1 and also heard but not confirmed that Godalming & Farncombe are groundsharing at Godalming fc also with views of progression so to get a top spot with effectively three teams who will have the facilities will be a even harder task, also the rest of the teams in the league will have there say in this, as there are still some very good teams to beat.Also with a few clubs approaching my players it will be a matter if they all stay, only pre season will tell me that hopefully most will and i feel i have a loyal bunch they were disappointed as much as me about the promotion situation. Abbey Rangers as you know finished 4th but got their lights up and got promoted so fair play to them they are a good team if they keep them all and add a few which promotion normally brings , I'm sure in my opinion will hold there own, specially once they settle in.One question i would like to know though if say two teams finished in the top 4 in our league the Surrey Elite with the right facilities etc would both be allowed in to the CC1 or is it restricted to only one promotion place ? does anyone know on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The FA regs at the moment are such that only one club can be promoted from a Step 7 League, such as the Elite League, in any one season. I understand that may possibly change in the future but there is nothing definite at the moment.. It is possible to be promoted without lights actually in place. So long as a club can demonstrate that they have planning permission along with the necessary finance, the FA regulations allow them until 30 September to actually get the lights up, so long as they fulfil the remainder of the criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellers Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Totally disagree with finishing in top 5 entitles you to get promoted from Ccl1 to Prem, if you can't finish in the top three of Div 1 then your simply don't deserve and your definitely not good enough to go up, just because you've got lights doesn't mean you warrant promotion. This is football and you only get rewarded for positive results, top five deserving promotion is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ellers,so Chertsey and Hanworth got rewarded for positive results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rother Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Do we really want the quality of the Premier League to be reduced? Because that is what would happen if teams from mid table got promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non League Nigel Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Agree with Ellers - any side that came 5th in div 1 would get rinsed in the premier unless they made wholesale changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Wainwright Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Rich why have you got this obsession with a 20 team League?The last time that occured in the CCL was 17 years ago.There is strength in numbers surely. Chertsey and Hanworth would of been relegated under your 20 team proposal.But more importantly the blockers saved their day. Strength in numbers is true if you are only running one division but if you are running two divisions you need both to be strong with full promotion and relegation between both divisions every season. In the case of the CCL they need the 2 divisions to be of a similar number of teams and reach max number of teams in division 1 with the minimum amount of blocking teams. It is then vital that any teams wanting to be accepted into division 1 have their own ground and that they then replace one of the blocking teams. I think that at least one should be promoted from division 1 if all of the blockers occupy the top places and this doesn't necessarily mean that theteam would be weak because they could always splash out the cash like most of the teams in the prem do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellers Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Smudge what has Chertsey and Hanworth got to do with promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E&E Rich Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Rich why have you got this obsession with a 20 team League?The last time that occured in the CCL was 17 years ago.There is strength in numbers surely. Chertsey and Hanworth would of been relegated under your 20 team proposal.But more importantly the blockers saved their day. I don't have an "obsession" with a 20 team league, in fact if you read my recent posts, you will have seen that I am against it this season purely because the league have made no indication that they wanted it to happen. They wanted 22 and that is the proposal. I would prefer a 20 team league going forward as we have far too many "elf and safety" postponements and as soon as we have a side getting a decent Vase or FA Cup run their season is screwed with the amount of backlogs, but to adopt it this season would have been wrong. It's called moving the goalposts and any intention to reduce should be made clear at the start of the season. To get back to the latest question, just promoting someone isn't always right. You say Hanworth and Chertsey haven't had the results but some time ago, in the past, Hanworth earned promotion to step five in the usual way, while Chertsey did it back before the leagues were reorganised and were Isthmian Premier at one point. Sure, by finishing below that line, they take a chance of a drop but they were the rules at the start of the season so they knew the score. A reprieve would be considered fortunate but not nearly as fortunate as a midtable step six club being given a shot ahead of one of those clubs just to satisfy some weird criteria. You could argue that our step six clubs are lucky that the CCL allows three up and three down already, so to extend this further is simply foolish. As for SW's comment about Premier clubs throwing money at things, I don't believe that is quite as prevalent as you suggest. South Park famously won the league with no playing budget and Windsor have made it quite clear on many occasions that they don't pay either. Molesey upped their budget this year, but that's because they sorted their finances out with the land sale and that's the way it goes. It's their money. I don't doubt that "some" extra money was spent by clubs nearer the bottom towards the end of the season, hence the change in the playing records of many of those teams from January onwards, but that's what "bigger" clubs can do. It happens higher up and will always be the way, rightly or wrongly. Let's use Banstead as an example but it could be any midtable step six team. If they had been promoted up last season from a midtable position they would have been smashed this year and would have been further adrift than Frimley were. The same principle applies with the top of the Premier Division. I would love to see a second club going up, personally via playoffs as it reduces the number of dead matches in a step five league. However, a club in step four has a greater right to a place in step four than a second step five club from a particular league if the space arises. Why? Because they at some point earned the promotion in the first place. Chertsey and Guildford have come back in recent seasons but were at least deserving of a promotion by finishing in the requisite position. Yes, the only time a second club have gone up recently (Guernsey), they have survived, but they are not a typical case. If a club is good enough, it will get up from Step Seven to Six to Five in fairly rapid time, many clubs have proved this. Without doubt it is tougher to get from five to four, but that's for another forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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