Stadia Management

[GazzaBTFC]

Hello Westy, Rod here!!! - Oh I do love your posts...I'm either Rod Moore (wrong) or a Rod cronie (wrong)...So that is two counts of wrong!!!...Go for the third here on Triple Jepoardy!!! A new game show!!!

 

Westy, I am not an executive of Billericay. I'm the Vice Chairman of the BTSA, true a representative of the supporters BUT this is my first season and therefore all that this has gone on before me, mate. As the wheels are in motion and we are waiting for the deputy Prime Minister to judge our case, what do you sggest we all do? Riot?

 

And once again, whatever I feel about Rob Moore personally, his plans, his vision of the future of the club, is between me, Rod and the crystal ball I speak to every nite.

 

[westy]

But you have already declared your position. You are on record as saying that on balance you support the move.

 

Now, as Vice Chairman of BTSA your voice carries more weight than the average Joe. Anyone who reads this site will be of the opinion that BTSA supports the move and that's the rub (or one of them). I don't believe you have had a ballot of supporters.You know that a majority are wholly against a move.

 

Now, I know there is little you can do against Mr Moore, but you appear to be actively supporting everything he says or does and that doesn't reflect the views or position of most of BTSA's members.

 

As VC of that group you should at least be prepared to formally state their case.

 

If you aren't Rod Moore, you are probably his son or someone close to him. I'm still not convinced you are not that brown nose Alice. He appeared from nowhere when Crispin was pursuing the inequities at the Club, and he had something on Crispin that has made him disappear. He is certainly close to Rod and his position seems to echo yours in every way. By adopting a double identity you can appear to show that your position has wider support than is the case in fact.

[Guest]

I feel the club is run in an admirably transparent manner.

We have Robert Moore's totally impartial colunm in the local rag - no chance of any propaganda through that particular medium then!

[Guest]

All this name calling is verging on the ridiculous and doing the club no favours.

 

I don't know what planet Alice is on but if he/she thinks there is any money to be made from the move to Basildon then he/she needs to see a doctor.

 

Where are all the fans going to come from to fill this new stadium ?? Not from Billericay judging by the size of the crowds this year. No-one from Basildon is going to support a team called Billericay Town - change the name and it may help but Basildon has no history of supporting non-league football, you only have to look at Basildon Utd.

 

To attract the floating support you need a successful team playing exciting football, Billericay are sliding towards Ryman 1 and it would take a massive injection of funds to put together a squad on par with Hornchurch or Canvey. Where's the money going to come from ? Not the hotel Basildon already has the Campinole and Travelodge supporting the business traveller, I don't see any tourist sites nearby!! You only have to look at the hotel at West Ham to see no-one stays in a hotel in a crap area unless its near an airport.

 

I cannot see how Stadia Management are going to make any money, the only way to generate serious cashflow would be to build houses at New Lodge but I understand that this is not on the agenda.

 

Rod Moore invested in Billericay at the peak of the market, he is now trying to follow a business model that clearly doesn't work see Chelsa/West Ham. The shares are worth nil and will remain worthless for the foreseeable future. There is no money to be made from football, the only club that makes money is Man Utd.

 

IMHO the only possible way that Billericay can survive and attempt a move towards conference football is to merge with another non-league club with a large fan base namely Chelmsford. It has worked before with Dagenham & Redbridge and Rushdom & Diamonds, but any move like this would need the support of the majority fans something which is not the case for the move to Basildon.

 

I'll probably get slated but instead of slagging me off, how about some constructive words for a change.

 

 

[GazzaBTFC]

I am amazed that you want to know who I am!!! Bloody cheek when you come on here and give it large and still refuse to speak with anyone of us face to face.

 

No I am not Rod Moore's son or Alice, just plain Gazza. What would be the point of having an "alter ego" on this forum? The worst kind of coward and trouble maker. You obviously don't know me enough to know that action would be, in my mind a "low" thing to do. Just shows what you what you know about the club if you don't know who I am.

 

[mala_D]

Excuse me for interjecting at this point, lads & lasses, but I've been following this on-going saga for a while and wanted to pass comment as a completely neutral observer. You are not obliged to read it...

 

No one wants to see his or her club relocate. I think I am right to say that you all agree with this simple statement.

Point case is Wimbledon, as mentioned before. I'm sure Woolwich Arsenal fans felt similarly aggrieved all those years back when they moved north of The River. Man City fans had strong emotional ties with Maine Road, but also had to accept that the new stadium constituted some form of progression for their club.

Personally, I wouldn't particularly want West Ham to relocate to Stratford (unlikely at the mo'), or for Hornchurch to move away from the environs of said town. As most people here know, we are having “bother” from NIMBY's. Nevertheless, the dilemma experienced by Wimbledon fans was more extreme than the one facing Billericay supporters, to say the least.

 

The problem is that there are certain people who consider ‘ricay's proposed move purely in terms of financial gain for the "owners" of the club. However, I would say that most "owners" of most football clubs in this country want to ensure financial stability for their respective clubs. And supporters have to accept that there are going to be certain hardships along the way.

 

The reality also is, is that most (if not all) professional and semi-professional clubs have to perform in a "business-like" fashion in order to survive or thrive within the current economic climate. And at times they have to cut their cloth to suit.

 

Asking a fan to distance his or herself from the emotive aspects of “The Problem” IS extremely difficult. Possibly the strongest "emotive issue" which fans have is their self-identification with a club and their own geographical location. All "real" supporters [as opposed to London Reds etc] are only too aware of this emotion. But they have to analyse why they have it in the first place.

 

However, if a supporter really cannot reconcile the harsh realities of football economics with his/her emotive issues then there is the option of supporting another team that also happens to play in the area. It may have to be a pub team playing over the park on a Sunday morning...but so what? If such a supporter considers their own club's ambitions so abhorrent and their civic loyalty so passionately strong, then that is what they have to do. "Unreconstructed socialists" should already be doing this now anyway - if they really stood by their political convictions - instead of invading the Forums of professional and semi-professional clubs with their antiquated dogma.

 

Trouble is they don't! They want success for their club, and the kudos it brings them for having an association with that club, but hate the thought of someone either being paid for their efforts, or for "owners" to actually make a profit (god forbid)!

 

They should face facts [and ALL fans of whichever political persuasion should remind themselves of this]:

When one removes the emotive issue of “loyalty” attached to it, football, like other spectator-focussed activities, is a form of "entertainment". This opinion may be a tad “existentialist” for some people, but football is no less different than the theatre, the opera, a music concert, or community centre/pub. And when patrons feel as though they are being "ripped off", not getting good value for money, or that their loyalty is being taken advantage of, then they have the right not to attend.

 

There's as much entertainment to be had by watching amateur dramatics, or a band playing down a local pub, or indeed, a Sunday footie team. Even better to participate! AFC Wimbledon fans have to be congratulated for their initiative. The supporters of St. Pauli in Hamburg are another lot who should be mentioned.

 

Similarly, the "loyalty" aspect of football supporters is something which the owners and shareholders of large supermarkets have attempted to replicate, initiate, and induce among their own customers. If one supermarket is either cheaper or more ethical than another, then you'll go and shop there if you have any sense. When you have the choice, then exercise it!

 

There will also always be some "owners" of footie clubs who will take advantage and thrive on the "loyalty" aspect of supporters. Asking Man U fans to buy a new shirt every year was an obvious case. Sam Hamman’s appropriation of Welsh nationalism amongst Cardiff supporters is another. Again, if one feels that your loyalty is being taken advantage of, then withdraw your support. Stop "shopping" there!

 

I won't pass comment on whether the "owners" of Billericay come into this last category, as it's not right, as an outsider, to do so. They may be more altruistic than what many will give them credit for. Only you lot can decide. But you have the right, as customers/patrons to withdraw your support and walk away. No one is forcing you to attend.

 

However, I would ask this as a form of conciliation between the more “emotive” and “pragmatic” posters on this message board:

 

Once the access and transport issues have been settled, what is the problem with the proposed (relocated) Billericay adopting the name Billericay & Basildon (United?) F.C.?

 

Dagenham & Redbridge F.C get by with their name. In fact, they draw more support from the surrounding area as Redbridge Borough residents also feel a sense of identity with the club. And that will increase the more successful they become.

My own local club may eventually have to become Hornchurch & Havering F.C. because of location difficulties. Who knows what the future brings? One day many small (but ambitious) clubs may have to incorporate the name of their local borough in order to increase their fan base and to survive in an increasingly competitive entertainment marketplace. Or are you so parochially minded that you refuse to share your passion for football with others who, in reality, are no less different to yourself?

 

 

[GazzaBTFC]

And to end on that note. Thank you Maldroit, I feel you have put it quite well...

 

I suppose the reason I take a flippant attitude to some of this is that, we are far, far, far down the line for this new stadium and if it comes off, well there are issues for BTFC supporters to address. If it don't then those that feel the need to, can have a good chortle. Those who don't, can feel sympathy or whatever.

 

At the end of the day, I am not going to discuss something that I feel very strongly about with someone who is just on here to cause trouble.

[Guest]

Maladroit,

 

Don't take this the wrong way but you are not a local resident and therefore you do not understand the relationship between Billericay and Basildon.

 

For years and years the residents of Billericay have had to put up with paying significantly higher council taxes and getting nothing in return. Billericay effectively subsidises all the facilities enjoyed by the residents of Basildon. Billericay has no leisure facilities and no hospital

 

The move to Basildon is viewed as another part of the community being transferred to Basildon and naturally people are upset.

 

Billericay town FC has a great non-league tradition and had a great family/community club feel, this has now totally disappeared.

 

What is important here is the perceived motive for the move, those that view it as in the best interests of the club remain supporters and turn up on saturday, those that view it as a cash cow for the Chairman have voted with their feet.

 

What can be in no doubt is that the Chairman has not handled the situation very well, but then this is not uncommon for football Chairman you only have to look at Terry Brown at West Ham to see how to really [****!!****] things up.

 

 

 

 

[mala_D]

I appreciate what you say Ozzie. I feel similarly aggrieved with Havering Council's preoccupation with Romford. However, that wouldn't stop me watching Hornchurch if they were to be amalgamated with Romford [unlikely, I know]. Life's too short.

Nevertheless, I hope that Billericay F.C. continues for all genuine football fans.

As for Terry Brown: it's interesting really, but West Ham have never before been so actively involved in the community and with developing a strong relationship with its fan base. I think the board have done a fairly decent job in that department. It's a shame that the high admission prices, as well as the quality of the first team, have been affected to pay for it [and Brown's salary, of course].

Good luck to everyone.

[Guest]

Maladroit the one thing that is very clear is that this whole sorry saga has been a PR disaster for the club.

 

You simply cannot move a club without the support of the fans. Look at Wimbledon never the best supported club but now averaging only approx 4,500.

 

It was always going to be difficult to convince the fans that this was going to be in the best interests of the club, however the autocratic approach from the chairman has hardly helped matters. I would imagine that our Rod Moore is the exact opposite of your Uncle Urchin.

 

Still my concern is what happens if planning consent isn't given.

[westy]

If planning consent was subject to sale rather than public approval, how much do you think Stadia Management would pay to get it? I can tell you, a wheelbarrow load of dosh.

 

Stadia Management's goal is to build their hotel and leisure centre. They will have done their market research and you can bet your boots both will be highly profitable. This area is poorly served in the hotel department and with further growth in business in the area, there will be an even greater demand.

 

In truth, Stadia Management will have no long term commitment to the survival of BTFC. The Club is a convenient vehicle to get their planning permission after which normal capitalist business rules will apply.

 

In total project terms, planning approval is the single most vital ingredient in the plan. Without it nothing can happen. That is why it is so valuable, and also why anyone with a financial interest stands to make substantial profit. So far, so good; nothing wrong with profit. There are two crucial issues:

1. Will any of the profit go towards Club needs, or will it disappear into the pockets of shareholders?

2. Is the Club's future secure playing on a ground supplied by a profit oriented company, when that Company will have to heavily subsidise the arrangement for an indefinite future. Can anyone see the day when BTFC can fill a 4-8000 capacity stadium?

 

Nothing that has happened in recent years indicates that these half brained initiatives will be any more successful than those that have gone before. The only sure thing is that shareholders stand to make a wedge if the scheme goes ahead. I suspect very little of that money will find it's way back to the Club, particularly if Stadia Management cuts the cord and there is no ground to play on.

[westy]

Quote:

"The problem is that there are certain people who consider ‘ricay's proposed move purely in terms of financial gain for the "owners" of the club. However, I would say that most "owners" of most football clubs in this country want to ensure financial stability for their respective clubs."

 

What are you on? Talk to anyone with knowledage of non league football to see how many clubs have lost their grounds to development by their "owners". Chelmsford used to be very comfortable on their own ground. In many ways you are fortunate that Billericay rent their ground so there was nothing these rapists could get in that way.

[mala_D]

Yes...but local councils have had a lot to do with this too. I know this first hand because Romford were sold down the river by developers working in conjunction with the council. I am only too aware of the vulnerability of non-league clubs, and that developers merely see their grounds (our grounds!) in £££'s.

Nevertheless, there have been some people on your forum who see ALL "owners" as profit-motivated money grabbers. I hope Billericay does have a great stadium in future; and if it takes a hotel complex to realise it then so be it!

If there's enough support around the town, isn't there anything the fans can do? Or are we, football fans, really that powerless? Probably.

But St. Pauli & AFC are role models!!

But, like Gazza said...this all could be hypothetical at the moment?

I really do sympathise with your plight. It's one that many other supporters have seen before, and many will face thereafter. Good luck peeps.

[Nitetime Neil]

Wow! A lot of words have appeared on this thread since I last checked! Just to clear up a few things I've noted whilst reading...

1) Actually, Gazza, I would be quite happy if we stayed in the Isthmian Premier, with the odd relegation/promotion between Div 1, but we all know thats not likely! Given a choice between the Conference at GP or the ESL at New Lodge, yep, I'd take the latter tho'...

 

2) Being totally honest, I wasn't actually born in Billericay, but did move there at the age of three months old and stayed for around 27 years, coming back around four times a week since for one reason or another!

 

3) Actually, I AM a shareholder, but to be honest don't really give a toss if those shares are worth nowt or not, I just bought them coz at the time it seemed to be the right thing to do to help my club, who then had no plans to move ground anywhere, at least not to public knowledge...

 

And yes, I can vouch for Gazza not being anyone but....GAZZA! Like he says known each other for years, good pals, often differing opinions (mainly on music and the relative merits of guitars in said music!!!), played in the same 80's suppporters team and even have the same birthday!

[Bluesnet]

Stadia Management leave the football club to make its own profits from gate money and clubhouse (normally). The other interests create the revenue they require. One is tied to the other though so the argument of SM walking away is fancifully daft. There are checks and balances built in.

 

As far as relocation is concerned, why stop at Basildon? I hear the air is pleasant in Milton Keynes. I am interested to know what benefit to Billericay a move of Billericay Town FC to Basildon would bring? An argument could be made to drop the pretence now and just buy Basildon FC and close Billericay Town FC. For that is surely the end result of such a relocation.

[Smiler]

Quote:

maladroit said:
Dagenham & Redbridge F.C get by with their name. In fact, they draw more support from the surrounding area as Redbridge Borough residents also feel a sense of identity with the club. And that will increase the more successful they become.

There is a move to drop the Redbridge and adopt the original name; The vast majority of fans also come from Dagenham. There are a few loyal fans who still originate from the Walthamstow/Ilford era after the many amalgamations and/or take-overs. When this happens there will be a handful of unhappy fans who were promised the name would stay. But, hey thats progress I guess; though I don't agree it's best. Dagenham have manipulated things for themselves over the years for their own gain during times of financial and/or playing problems.

One other point. If you move to Basildon it would be 100% certain that the name would eventually result in Basildon; when this happens would be a matter of the fan base locality. Billericay would again rise somewhere locally to start the process over again, perhaps in the ESL or the like; familiar?. As an outsider who has experienced this over the past 40 years Basildon would have most to gain.

Stay local or it becomes someone else's club. The owners/directors may be acting in the best interests of football but they stay in charge so can see a larger fan base but do they care who makes up that fan base?

[mala_D]

 

 

There is a move to drop the Redbridge and adopt the original name; The vast majority of fans also come from Dagenham.

Perhaps they've gone as far as they can with it at this stage?

S'funny tho', but isn't there an FA "rule" which dictates that teams should be called after the location they originate from? [Obvious anomaly being Arsenal...the Woolwich being dropped ages ago]. Anyone know anymore on this "directive"?

 

As an aside,I used to follow Romford Raiders Ice Hockey Club [until internal corruption at the time spoilt the atmosphere!] but always thought the Raiders part of the name was rubbish. Should have been called Romford Ramraiders, or Romford Shoplifters or something!!

[slik]

Alice, you are wrong.

The future of Billericay Town FC lies at its current site, <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />I am confident of that.

 

You can't rip the heart out of a club and expect it to survive.

 

The way forward is to keep supporting in numbers, be positive and keep the pressure on to stay put.

 

If the supporters stand united in what they want, there will be no contest,

 

 

[westy]

I think Alice is wrong in sentiment but regretfully right in fact. Clearly the vast majority of BTFC fans want to stay put; a view totally ignored by Club Officials.

 

Where Alice is correct is that financial greed overrides all sorts of emotions and morals. A move to GP will bring mucho dosh to said officials and the few other shareholders.

 

Despite the comments of others, there must be a very substantial risk that Stadia Management will not continue to provide this large stadium indefinitely. Again, the question is why would the company have an asset worth £'s millions generating no return, regardless how profitable the rest of the scheme may be? The said greed will surely kick in sooner or later.

 

This is hugely risky from the viewpoint of BTFC. The officials are playing Russian Roulette with the Clubs future.

[BTFC Norway]

Reading your post about Stadia, it's shines trough that you don't know anything about how the deal with Stadia and BTFC is done. These details has already been published online and in the newspapers, and you have obviously not read them, or you deliberate choose to not take these into consideration, as it then would be obvious to the waste majority that most of your accusations about specific individuals at BTFC and how Stadia can earn money on the deal are just wild speculations.

 

I think it's kind of funny that a norwegian supporter living in Norway actually knows more about these things than you...

 

And, just for the record, I will always support Billericay Town FC, regardless on which ground or at what level they will play in the future, although I have to admit that I like the cozy and intimate atmosphere at New Lodge.

 

Per-Helge